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Well, we know Toriyama recently uses a skinny character style for his designs, as we can see here:
Or in the Battle of Gods designs
ALL the characters are VERY skinny in his character sheets, the same way as Goku SSJGod. Is this intentional? What if Toriyama just did all the characters skinny without thinking in a Goku who turns skinny in the ssjgod level?
We have recently illustrations of Goku in normal state (As the previous image) and ssj1 or ssj3, and they are very skinny as we can see:
So, what if this was just a misunderstood, and Toei understood that Toriyama wanted the new Goku form with a skinny body without thinking that he just draws like that?
This is kinda interesting. Where's that artwork from?
As for the skinnyness, I have no idea. But I like it in SSJG Goku. It's different, and makes him stand out more. That and the flame-like aura almost make it look like the power is burning away everything unnecessary, leaving Goku as a lean mean fighting machine
I'm not entirely sure what you think Toei misunderstood, but the Tadayoshi Yamamuro interview that's up on the site clearly states that Toriyama redesigned the original, bulkier SSG form that Yamamuro came up with.
EDIT: Raaah, beaten by the Black Magician!!
Keen Observation of Dragon Ball Z Movie 4's Climax wrote:Slug shits to see the genki
I'm pretty sure Toriyama had ample opportunity to say, "What the f*** is this s***, guys?"
Of course, it'd be muffled under a giant pile of cash.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.
It also bears mentioning that there's a line in the movie addressing how skinny Goku looks in the form (from Roshi, if I recall correctly) I believe, so I'm pretty sure it would have come up to Toriyama at some point, and he would have said it wasn't what he'd imagined or something, if it had been a mistake.
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He doesn't really look that skinny. Not in any of the art by Toriyama, or that shot of him as the SSG. Plus the SSG form probably modifies the body to it's 'peak form', so super toned, but very sleek like Spidey or something. Making them ultra-buff adds nothing to it at all and wouldn't be of any use or offer benefits.
Brodes wrote:He doesn't really look that skinny. Not in any of the art by Toriyama, or that shot of him as the SSG.
Check out the first two images that I published, specially the first one
The one that looks like it was a quick sketch? Yeah, okay, I'll give you that, but this one?
Nope, not at all. Unless you wanted the God form to resemble the Ultra/Grade forms Trunks and Vegeta used against Cell?
Vegeta, Videl and Satan are really the only ones I think are "too skinny", and that's more because there's just no definition on the bodies. a couple of extra lines to imply some thickness or muscle definition, even just around the arms would go a long way.
I still don't know why Toriyama made him skinnier anyway, its the only trait I don't like. Buffing would have been better with the best option to keep the physique the same. I'm surprised he doesn't slip out of his clothes during the fight.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I really believe this whole "skinny" thing is for the exact same reasons as the Gohan Buu saga dislike. It's just not "masculine" and "powerful" enough.
Brodes wrote:A way older art style isn't the best comparison.
But the older art style is more or less how he looks for most of the movie, right up until he becomes Super Saiyan God, at which point even the characters themselves comment on how he's skinnier. Maybe not that much skinnier, but still, it's notable enough for even the characters to note it.
Not that there's anything wrong with this.
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Imo, the skinny body (along with that magenta hair) was completely intentional. While some of the examples of "stronger than he looks" in DB are earlier on (child Goku, Kamesennin, Grandpa Gohan for examples) there's similar situations later like Fat Buu and Kid Buu, 17 and 18, Freeza's final form too. I think ssjg really fits in with the Buu arc's stylings. I think that beta version with the cape would've fit better with a more Cell arc type atmosphere.
Also they did have the characters bother to comment on it; imo that counts strongly for his body looking that way on purpose.
I really like the entire look (and am entertained that multiple artists on pixiv have nicknamed Goku in this form ゴッドちゃん ; I like ゴキュン as a nickname for him a little more, but both are nice. :3 ) but I feel like there's probably gonna be a good chunk of people on twitter and youtube who will probably be upset he's not a blonde ssj4 after all. ^^;;
Last edited by Chuquita on Mon May 13, 2013 2:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
If characters comment on it in dialogue, and Toriyama explicitly wanted the skinnier form when questioned, then how on Earth can anyone think it's a misinterpretation?
Brodes wrote:I really believe this whole "skinny" thing is for the exact same reasons as the Gohan Buu saga dislike. It's just not "masculine" and "powerful" enough.
I can't say that for others, but I like Gohan in the Boo saga best and I don't like Goku getting skinnier. As I said before, I'm surprised his clothes or boots slip off since he shrinks down a size or 2.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Brodes wrote:I really believe this whole "skinny" thing is for the exact same reasons as the Gohan Buu saga dislike. It's just not "masculine" and "powerful" enough.
I can't say that for others, but I like Gohan in the Boo saga best and I don't like Goku getting skinnier. As I said before, I'm surprised his clothes or boots slip off since he shrinks down a size or 2.
Maybe they did slip off off-screen, but he must've learned "CLOTHES BEAM" from Piccolo and fixed the problem.
"You haven't figured it out yet? I'm the Saiyan who came all the way from Earth for the sole purpose of beating you. I am the warrior you've heard of in legends, pure of heart and awakened by fury. That's what I am. I AM THE SUPER SAIYAN, SON GOKU!" - Goku, Dragon Ball Z Kai, The Angry Super Saiyan! Throw Your Hat in the Ring, Son Goku!
Brodes wrote:I really believe this whole "skinny" thing is for the exact same reasons as the Gohan Buu saga dislike. It's just not "masculine" and "powerful" enough.
I can't say that for others, but I like Gohan in the Boo saga best and I don't like Goku getting skinnier. As I said before, I'm surprised his clothes or boots slip off since he shrinks down a size or 2.
Maybe they did slip off off-screen, but he must've learned "CLOTHES BEAM" from Piccolo and fixed the problem.
Scar just got a new idea.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
