How would you compare Grade 3 SSJ to SSJ2?

[Mjb1985]

Isn't it a bit conflicting that you have Freeza at 80% of Ssj Goku and Freeza is able to at least manage something against Goku while you have 16 86% of Semi Cell who tanked him and dismissively one shotted him ?

[Kamiccolo9]

Isn't it a bit conflicting that you have Freeza at 80% of Ssj Goku and Freeza is able to at least manage something against Goku while you have 16 86% of Semi Cell who tanked him and dismissively one shotted him ?

Not really. There are many reasons why Freeza could have manage something against Goku. I like the explanation that Kaboom gave in the versus thread.

I think the only thing that might have affected how Goku and Freeza compared was Goku's injuries holding him back a bit. Breaking into Super Saiyan may have replenished his stamina and ki, but it didn't make all the damage he'd sustained from Freeza's beatings go away, and they would probably affect his performance somewhat. More so than Freeza's own damage would, at least.

Otherwise, I don't see anything that would necessitate doubting the 150/120 million figures for them... Freeza got in a few good hits, but Goku was still in control for the majority of the fight. Specific power gaps don't matter that much anyhow.

Goku could have also been holding back, to humiliate Freeza by making him feel that he had a chance.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

I think the highest the multiplier for Grade III would be around 1.95x in strength and ki whilst SSJ2 is always 2x in everything. I guess it could be like comparing Kaiouken x20 with using Super Saiya-Jin for Gokuu.

[Mjb1985]

So if Goku wasn't injured he would have tanked Freeza and one shotted him? Goku never held back, he actually stopped fighting when he didn't consider Freeza a threat anymore.

[Kamiccolo9]

So if Goku wasn't injured he would have tanked Freeza and one shotted him? Goku never held back, he actually stopped fighting when he didn't consider Freeza a threat anymore.

I think that he would have tanked him better than he already did. I don't know about one-shotting him though. Freeza has shown pretty impressive durability.
And I think that either Goku was injured and weaker, or he was holding back. Not both. Either one would fit into my interpretation though.

[Kaboom]

I think the best overall message is that the numbers don't determine everything. Just because one character can put up a fight while at a certain percentage disadvantage doesn't mean that other characters won't get easily smoked at the same gap.

[Mjb1985]

Didn't Freeza get attacked by a Kkx20 Kamehameha, a Spirit Bomb and get beaten up by a Super Saiyan before going full power?

Yes that is part of the discussion I wanted to bring up. I have heard that line of thinking before I just wanted to explore it more.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJG3 is equal to SSJ2 in terms of power.

[Saiga]

I too think that SS2 and Grade III are equal in power. But I hadn't considered the Grade III Goku vs Semi-Perfect Cell angle, and now I'm unsure if a 100x base multiplier works for me.

[Bussani]

For a while I was considering it moderately stronger than Super Saiyan 2, something around 125x. But that recently translated whatever-it-was related to the Trunks special that talked about Super Saiyan forms and pegged Super Saiyan 2 as the "strongest" has caused me to reconsider lately.

Couldn't it just be talking generally? Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 form was obviously stronger than Trunks's Grade III, and quite possibly stronger than Goku's Grade III as well, since it was before they did their "be Super Saiyans all the time" training.

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

I too believe Super Saiyan Grade 3 Trunks could be equivalent to Super Saiyan 2 Trunks. I could just imagine Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (Post-Rosat) against Suppressed Perfect Cell.

[Mjb1985]

It's tough. One would think Ssj2 would be head and shoulders above the Grade forms.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's tough. One would think Ssj2 would be head and shoulders above the Grade forms.

Nothing indicates that it's not. I seem to be in the minority here, but I've seen nothing to indicate that Grade III is equal to SSJ2.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm a big gaps guy (mostly because of the guidebook power levels) so I have Grade III stronger than SS2 to make sense of the one fight it's used in. Something like x125 works for me.

[Mjb1985]

Grade 3 seems to cover a lot of ground. It seems really hard to place it below the 2x official multiplier. But if you don't use a 2x boost it should be no problem. Even if you do you can go lower, it's just really tight.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well SSJG2 is already fairly bulked up as it is so I just assuming it's 1.51-2x stronger depending on how bulked up you are in Grade 3. Besides it's already established that the grade forms are ascended, just incorrectly, so it would make sense if the strongest grade form is equivalent to the SSJ2.

[Kamiccolo9]

Besides it's already established that the grade forms are ascended, just incorrectly, so it would make sense if the strongest grade form is equivalent to the SSJ2.

Where is it established?

[Mjb1985]

Yea I think it could go either way.

It's funny though , in a time where 10, 20 and 50x boosts are handed out like candy, we feel the need to use a 2x boost of all things for a Super Saiyan beyond a Super Saiyan? Without the official multipliers it's quite possible we would start out with a 50x boost for Super Saiyan 2.

In the story it doesn't seem needed, but I wouldn't laugh off someone who thought 10x was fitting rather than 2x.

Yet on the other hand, people think you need large gaps to determine superiority , which shouldn't really be the case imo. So it's a funny situation.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Besides it's already established that the grade forms are ascended, just incorrectly, so it would make sense if the strongest grade form is equivalent to the SSJ2.

Where is it established?

Is it an ascended SSJ? Yes.

[Kamiccolo9]

Besides it's already established that the grade forms are ascended, just incorrectly, so it would make sense if the strongest grade form is equivalent to the SSJ2.

Where is it established?

Is it an ascended SSJ? Yes.

The only one ever referred to as an ascended SSJ is SSJ2. And I think that the word "ascended" is ever used in the Japanese version. In the original,i t just says that SSJ2 has surpassed SSJ. I would go so far as to say that grades 2 and 3 aren't even seperate transformations, just pumped up Super Saiyans. They and FPSSJ all fall under the heading of SSJ1.