VIZ 3-in-1 Editions Coming Summer 2013

[Kaboom]

I understand this is a touchy topic, but let's try to keep the tempers and attitudes in check, and not resort to insults, okay?

[Zenkai]

Jeez, you are everything that is wrong with society. You are way to fucking uptight about the slightest hint of nudity. People like you are the reason that when I watched Babel in my TV Production class, we had to skip scenes thus losing context and missing seeing some artistic integrity in the film even though we signed off on a waver toy watch R rated movies. Don't reproduce. To answer your question it would most likely depend of the state the person was in, and if it had no sexual content other than nudity, it's not that big of an offense. If it was like a 10 year old, there would be some problems.

I see.

There is no point in continuing this conversation if you're going to spout ad hominems.

It's laughable to use such fallacies in a debate format, in my opinion.

Also, why can't you just accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you?

[ShadowDude112]

Jeez, you are everything that is wrong with society. You are way to fucking uptight about the slightest hint of nudity. People like you are the reason that when I watched Babel in my TV Production class, we had to skip scenes thus losing context and missing seeing some artistic integrity in the film even though we signed off on a waver toy watch R rated movies. Don't reproduce. To answer your question it would most likely depend of the state the person was in, and if it had no sexual content other than nudity, it's not that big of an offense. If it was like a 10 year old, there would be some problems.

I see.

You must be one of those "tolerant" people who are only tolerant towards people who share their point of view.

There is no point in continuing this conversation if you're going to spout ad hominems.

Using such fallacies is laughable in a debate format, in my opinion.

Okay, that's it. The die is cast. It's not that you have a different view point than me, it's that you can't see the points that I'm bringing up. Let's use my example of Babel for instance. The girl who is nude is deaf and mute. She has no real way to connect with people on an emotional level. So she uses the physical level. But there is no sex. Just her nude body. Is that pornography? No. In fact, that's a very interesting way to use nudity, but we have to skip over that because people like you can't handle seeing nudity for some reason and when people point out that it's not bad you completely ignore that point and stick to your sick, twisted moral high ground. You're completely wrong about this being pornography in any sense. Bulma is not having sex at all. She is simply nude. But you can't see that, can you? You think all nudity is evil or something. That's what bugs me. You think this is so awful when it's not. You're just making it look awful so you can have something to feel good about or something.

[Rukura]

Also, why can't you just accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you?

That's also a great question to use while pointing with the thumb instead of the finger.

What you are raising your fist against (the Bulma panels. Pretty safe to say we're all against child pornography, same as you.) wasn't created with the mentality that you almost seem to imply that it was. It was made for kids, to be seen through their eyes, and make them laugh in a "lolz boobies" kind of way. Not as a sexual thing. If you can't take a step back and see it through that perspective...Well, that's kinda on you, at that point, isn't it?

[Insertclevername]

I just bought Viz Big Vol. 1 a month ago. Should I invest in these (if what Viz is right about their correction) or should I perhaps get these more affordable ones instead?

[Zenkai]

To all my fellow Dragon Ball fans on this forum,

I do not think that all nudity is necessarily wrong. For example, I think artistic masterpieces that show nudity, such as the Statue of David, etc., are acceptable.

It depends on whether or not the scene or piece of artwork contains anything sexual in nature. Bulma flashing Roshi does have a slightly sexual nature. Sure, it's comedy, but I don't think that makes it much more acceptable.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Shadow, the thing is, he has his own morals. I would have said the same thing as Zenkai. You should really get off your high horse as well. It seems to me that you are gripping your point of view pretty hard. You are telling him that his morals are twisted and sick? That's pretty harsh, dude. Not everyone is you. Just because he feels that way with his own reasons doesn't mean you have to have pretty harsh criticisms.

The problem with society today is the people's inability to be flexible with their feelings. If he feels he shouldn't see anything inappropriate, then he shouldn't.

[Kaboom]

I just bought Viz Big Vol. 1 a month ago. Should I invest in these (if what Viz is right about their correction) or should I perhaps get these more affordable ones instead?

Depends on what you want more.

3-In-1 Editions:
+ Eventual supposedly mostly-unedited art
+ Cheaper price
- Very low paper/print quality

Viz Big Editions:
+ Most of the colored portions
+ High-quality paper and print quality
- Same visual edits as individual "graphic novel" editions

[Cold Skin]

Seeing Bulma's breast is okay cause as always with Dragon Ball, it's not meant to be pornographic in context, but just genuinely crazy-yet-honest situations.
The context makes it totally okay for even a five-years old boy to see this (which is probably why the manga's never been censored in France).

Young children will have the same reaction than Goku: those breasts are weird and funny, and what a weird obsession people (like Oolong and Kame Sennin) have with those! The end.
Modifying Toriyama's drawing however, is unacceptable. It is not his drawing anymore, it's his and whoever-that-unknown-low-key-artist-could-possibly-be's drawing. It's like painting an additionnal mustache to Mona Lisa, you just don't add a whole new thing that wasn't there if you respect even just a bit the original depiction and the original artist.

Nowadays, young boys and girls can see American Pie movies on TV just as easily as any other program, with real nipples all over the place and actual sexual-related conversation/plot/jokes.
And whatever parents may do to control what they see and hear, kids just learn what you're trying to hide at school with their buddies, at a younger age than you'd even expect, and there's no way around it.
They won't be disturbed to see cartoon breasts that make a scene funny in context and not serve any sexual purpose, especially since they're not in age of being interested by that and will identify all the more to Goku's reactions to it.
Even biology books for very young kids show naked females with their breasts exposed. And it's good, it makes them feel like it's not anything special to obsess about.

Really, it's by trying to hide things to kids that they become eager to find out by themselves and dive into it in a much bigger way than they would have otherwise!
It's like telling them that they were born from a flower, it's pointless AND can end up with an accident.
You just have to explain natural things to them, not in detail of course when they're not even teenagers, but in a very simple, tasteful, cute/innocent-yet-truthful way.
And with breasts, there's not much to explain: "yeah, this looks like this for girls, it's bumpier, it's called like that. Boys don't have any." And that's it, they know what they need to know and won't be shocked to see this in a regular scene that doesn't involve sexual interactions. And those "regular scenes" can happen in the real world anyway: just taking them to the beach, kids might see bra-less girls around, so they might as well consider it "nothing special" as soon as possible.

So yeah, no need to censor the manga, it's even probably good for them to find out just at the same time than Goku does and share his "it's-weird-but-whatever" reaction with that (fictionnal) young boy like them.
I'd say the Dragon Ball scenes are perfect to bring natural knowledge to a young boy without putting any emphasis on the sexual elements linked to it. It's a safe, cute way to discover the basic female anatomy in a neutral way, with a character that's interesting to them (they would have had a sense of weirdness from an adult, but have a sense of safety and familiarity with Goku's teenage friend).
That way they don't feel treated as "kids you're trying to hide things from and they'll have to find out by themselves", they just know what they have to and proceed with their lives not particularly interested by it more than by anything else and proceed with their lives "unharmed".

[Insertclevername]

I just bought Viz Big Vol. 1 a month ago. Should I invest in these (if what Viz is right about their correction) or should I perhaps get these more affordable ones instead?

Depends on what you want more.
<Snip>

I might just stick to the Vizbigs for the time being. The censorship sucks but the quality seems to make up for it.

[Ryuji-Otogi]

Why do we gotta attack one another for our beliefs around here? If you don't like nudity then fine, if you're okay with it then that's also fine.

Really, I think we should all be able to agree that the manga should see no edits. Why? Because you just don't censor anime or manga. But most importantly, because VIZ is advertising the line as uncut and uncensored. It says so right on the novel itself. You just can't justify censoring an "uncensored and uncut" novel. It's false advertising. (hopefully VIZ is true to their word and subsequent reprints are in fact unedited) If you want a censored version of Dragon Ball, there are a plethora of options available to you. The VIZBIGs, which is arguably the best version of the manga on store shelves. Or the original tankobans. Or as of now, the 3-in-1 which is supposed to be uncensored but actually isn't.

But there is no uncensored version of the manga available for English-speaking Dragon Ball fans in the States, save for the hard-to-come-by first prints of however many DB volumes they released before they started editing. If for whatever reason, you staunchly believe that the Dragon Ball manga should be censored, then fine. You already got that. But let us fans who want an uncensored, unedited, uncut product have one without making silly,childish remarks about us being pervs because we don't like VIZ editing Bulma's breasts, or middle-fingers, or whatever.

[Insertclevername]

To be honest, I wouldn't mind paying a little extra for an uncensored manga. Maybe a special or limited edition for older fans? A release that isn't made targeted for children?

[Brodes]

I'd prefer not to see naked women or girls in Dragon Ball. Is that so difficult to understand?

I'm not debating your preferences, you can choose to enjoy Dragon Ball however you like. I'm just countering your statement of Bluma being underage as if it were a fact.

I don't live in Japan.

And do you honestly think it would be appropriate to have nude 13 and 14 year old girls?

She is 16, so she's pretty much the age of consent everywhere. You being uncomfortable with that fact doesn't change it.

My main issue is you won't explain your views or the whys, or anything. You just imply people who have no problem are pedophiles and restate again and again that you dislike nudity. If you could actually explain yourself, I'd happily handshake and walk away. But you don't. So. Yeah.

[dbzfan7]

Religious reasoning? IDK.

[Mewzard]

But there is no uncensored version of the manga available for English-speaking Dragon Ball fans in the States, save for the hard-to-come-by first prints of however many DB volumes they released before they started editing. If for whatever reason, you staunchly believe that the Dragon Ball manga should be censored, then fine. You already got that. But let us fans who want an uncensored, unedited, uncut product have one without making silly,childish remarks about us being pervs because we don't like VIZ editing Bulma's breasts, or middle-fingers, or whatever.

I think most of the original DB material was uncut (pre-Z). I find that most of the censorship seemed to start back up around the time they went from being Viz to Viz Media, with their little side logo change. Glad I have the uncut 1st editions of the SJ line...but I wouldn't mind even less censorship heading into the Z portion of the show.

I don't believe in censorship personally. If something was made in a certain way, it should be left as is for the audience it is most appropriate for. If that changes due to societal differences, fine, but don't try to censor it to fit into the same age group or whatever.

[Zenkai]

My main issue is you won't explain your views or the whys, or anything. You just imply people who have no problem are pedophiles and restate again and again that you dislike nudity. If you could actually explain yourself, I'd happily handshake and walk away. But you don't. So. Yeah.

See page 17. Second post from the bottom.

And I didn't call anyone a pedophile.

[Kendamu]

Censored after all, eh? Guess I'll just read the colorized stuff in Weekly Jump and not buy this new edition.

[Brodes]

My main issue is you won't explain your views or the whys, or anything. You just imply people who have no problem are pedophiles and restate again and again that you dislike nudity. If you could actually explain yourself, I'd happily handshake and walk away. But you don't. So. Yeah.

See page 17. Second post from the bottom.

And I didn't call anyone a pedophile.

Someone gave two options, and you're response was 'yes'. So, yay for the mathematicians response, and while we can all assume that it's religion based reasoning (and then I wonder why other aspects of the series don't bother you more), you didn't really clarify. I certainly don't want to make any assumptions about if it was (or which) religion. But hey, now you've explained it, so handshakes for all!

[Mewzard]

Censored after all, eh? Guess I'll just read the colorized stuff in Weekly Jump and not buy this new edition.

Viz said it was meant to be uncut and some stuff was left in. Gotta read the topic a little closer, lol.

[Kendamu]

Ah-ha! Well, you've already explained it to me on Twitter. That's what I get for basing my reply on news from a couple days ago without reading further.