Gohan's Intelligence

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:07 am

Still don't agree. I've never met any eight year-olds like Gohan, and I certainly wasn't like that at eight.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:15 am

Jerseymilk wrote:I don't think he was a bumbling idiot at all! As I said, I believe his personality has a lot of naivety and you're confusing that with being an idiot.

IMO, anyone who's fighting a genocidal maniac with the power to destroy the entire planet and fails to kill him immediately despite having the opportunity is a bumbling idiot. (i.e. Gohan vs. Perfect Cell, "Super" Buu.) This describes almost all of the main characters at one point or another. Only Bulma has ever suggested that they just use the Dragonballs to preemptively eliminate a threat to the Earth, which makes her much, much smarter than the other characters.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:18 am

Or 5 year olds, for that matter. I've got a 5 year old nephew, and he's pretty smart (although everyone says that about their, er, "own" kids), but he's still learning the alphabet and how to beat his elder brother at Mario Kart. His concept of right and wrong is pretty much "bad guy" and "good guy". He does just about get "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", so Gohan working with Vegeta does make sense to him, but beyond that it's pushing things. And although I'm not sure if Gohan's vocab is above average in Japan, he certainly wouldn't be speaking with some of the words Gohan uses, both subtitles and "dumbed-down" dub.

Hell, Gohan at five seems far more intelligent than Goku at 12. Although that's not a fair comparison.

Anyone want to check what Gohan was actually studying in movie 1 and 2, or that episode with the wipping tutor?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:24 am

And damn James for posting before I'd finished.

James R. Cadwell wrote:Only Bulma has ever suggested that they just use the Dragonballs to preemptively eliminate a threat to the Earth, which makes her much, much smarter than the other characters.

[student-type sneer] That's not hard. [/student-type sneer]

And I don't want to go off the topic, but that's a good point. I always thought the inability of the Dragonballs to destroy uber powerful beings was because they were too powerful (although thinking about it, I'm not actually sure where I first heard that used on the show. The only reason I can remember is the one James is referencing, where time was a problem, not power).

Even so, if for some reason the dragonballs aren't powerful enough to just "wish" Vegeta/Nappa/Freeza/#19/#20/#18/#19/Buu dead, why couldn't they make a wish like "Great Shenlong, I wish for the artificial humans to be transported to the centre of a black hole", or "I wish that Vegeta would get knocked on his head and become good like Goku", or "I wish Buu would explain his STUPID TRANSFORMATIONS".

Lack of imagination.

But yeah, Bulma is possibly the smartest person in the anime. Which is possibly slightly worrying.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:25 am

I never said that Gohan was smarter than Buruma. With Cell, I think you're forgetting that when Gohan turned SSJ2 and attacked Cell, he was pretty much in his "rage mode". He wasn't himself, so to me that doesn't count as him not being able to show commonsense. If you're going to use that as an example, then put part of the blame on Goku for putting into that situation in the first place, in which he was driven to that state. With Buu, after he absorbed Piccolo, Gotenks, not only did he use Gotenks strength, he used the intelligence and knowledge he gained from Piccolo to "mentally "rattle" Gohan. It's the same technique that Vegita likes to use on his opponents. For someone like Gohan, who is a lot more sensitive than Goku, the tatic really got to him. You can see it in his face, that he's upset and can't think straight. Along with the fact that he's likely already blaming himself for letting them be absorbed in the first place. Look, I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, just that I think that you are being a bit too judgemental in saying that he's a "bumbling idiot".

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:30 am

Dang Liam! You posted in between! That part you're referring to about Shenlong not being able to destroy powerful beings is said in the Sayajin saga when Roshi and the others are wishing Goku back and Oolong first spits out that he wishes for the destruction of Nappa and Vegita. Shenlong then states that he can't do it because it's beyond the power of his creator, in this case Kami, and he can't do something more powerful. By the way, it's not lack of imagination, it's called "We have to always find an excuse for a fight to happen, since this is a series about fighting".

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:33 am

Which never made sense to me, since it implies that Kami could just bring people back to life himself, if the power to do in the Dragonballs came from him anyway.

Still doesn't explain why they didn't wish "Make their space pods explode before they get here", or something.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:35 am

Oh I know, it's not a very-well thought out explanation. I just pointed it out so you wouldn't think you were imagining that you did hear it at some point in the series.

Another thing that I've always wondered about, is why Roshi never searched out the dragonballs and asked to be surrounded by young devoted woman, or Kuririn wish to be a lot taller and have a nose and get married. I mean if there is that kind of power available once a year, you'd think the people that knew would take more advantage of it!

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:48 am

Jerseymilk wrote:With Buu, after he absorbed Piccolo, Gotenks, not only did he use Gotenks strength, he used the intelligence and knowledge he gained from Piccolo to "mentally "rattle" Gohan. It's the same technique that Vegita likes to use on his opponents. For someone like Gohan, who is a lot more sensitive than Goku, the tatic really got to him. You can see it in his face, that he's upset and can't think straight. Along with the fact that he's likely already blaming himself for letting them be absorbed in the first place.

I was referring to when "Mystic" Gohan arrived on Earth and fought "Super" Buu before Gotenks was absorbed. He should have immediately destroyed Buu, but instead he chose to show off and fight him directly for a few minutes.

If you were in a situation where a homicidal psychopath with the reasoning capabilities of a preschooler was attacking your friends and he had the ability to destroy the planet at any time, would you:

a.) Shoot him in the face with a gun, killing him.

or

b.) Brag about being stronger and then use karate on him.

If anyone over the age of twelve thinks option B is a good idea, they're not particularly bright.

Jerseymilk wrote:Look, I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, just that I think that you are being a bit too judgemental in saying that he's a "bumbling idiot".

He did display idiotic behavior at certain points in the series, but yeah, you're probably right in asserting that he's not actually a "bumbling idiot". He's just not a genius.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:55 am

Okay, I understand and agree with your opinion about him being careless by not killing Buu right away. Of course, about your question. I would just like to point out that I think a lot of sixteen year-old males just might show off for a bit, even if the Earth was in jeopardy. Of course though, this is Gohan, who should have known better, so I agree with you that he certainly didn't show good sense

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:03 am

While I know this is a bit off topic, wasn't Gohan 11 (including the year spent in the Room of Spirit and Time) by the time he fought Cell? I'm certain that I got this from doing the math as well as reading this from various places.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:17 am

Well, even if you include the "year" that Gohan spent in the Room of Spirit and Time, that would only make him ten in my opinion, since his birthday coming around a few days later, was just coincidental timing. It had hardly been an "additional year". And if you then take it from just the manga and not the anime, it would still be ten since, the birthday celebration is just filler for the anime.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:43 am

Gohan's not destroying Cell when he had the chance is more a warped sense o f vengeance than it was stupidity. Gohan wanted Cell to suffer like he made other people suffer. Against Buu he just didn't take care of business when he should have, which is one of the things I didn't like about post-Freeza saga DBZ. There are dumb good guys who don't take care of business when it is needed. What Gohan, Gotenks, or anyone else who fought Buu and had a chance of winning should have done is sent a powerful blast that would have taken him into the sun. I doubt even Buu could have survived that.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:41 pm

I suppose we could blame Gohan not killing Buu when he had the chance on his Saiyan-blood demanding a good fight. Either that or he was influenced by his father's (and Vegeta's) stupid decisions regarding not killing people immedietly. At least Gohan didn't chuck him a Senzu bean and then wait while he transformed into a more powerful form.

Mochi · Post by **Mochi** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:47 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:Well, even if you include the "year" that Gohan spent in the Room of Spirit and Time, that would only make him ten in my opinion, since his birthday coming around a few days later, was just coincidental timing. It had hardly been an "additional year". And if you then take it from just the manga and not the anime, it would still be ten since, the birthday celebration is just filler for the anime.

I didn't know he was that young.

I can't like him the same way anymore, or my friends are gonna call me a pedophile.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:54 pm

I can never remember the "official ages", but using my own maths:

4 at the start of the series.
6 months in wilderness.
6 months with Piccolo.
Fight with Vegeta. Heads off to Namek shortly afterwards.
No idea how long he's on Namek, but it can't be more than a handful of days, and probably less.
So he's 5 for the Namek saga.
Returns to Earth. Wishes made.
Year goes past.
More wishes made (Ten and Chautzu bought back).
He's now 6.
Trunks turns up. 3 years training before artificial humans.
He's 9 during the early Android saga.
Year in the room of Spirit and Time.
He's 10 when he fights Cell.

Of course, there's plenty of places to gain and lose days all over the place, but that's what I roughly get.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:18 pm

PsyLiam wrote:I suppose we could blame Gohan not killing Buu when he had the chance on his Saiyan-blood demanding a good fight.

The Saiya-jin desire to fight isn't some completely overwhelming urge that can't be ignored in favor of a more pragmatic approach when the situtation requires one. It's just that most of the Saiya-jin characters are too stupid to realize that immediately killing any opponent who possesses the power to blow up the planet is always the best course of action.

PsyLiam wrote:Either that or he was influenced by his father's (and Vegeta's) stupid decisions regarding not killing people immedietly.

I'm sure that he was influenced by his father's behavior to some degree. That being said, he should have remembered what happened the last time he got cocky and fooled around with an outmatched opponent. His father died and the planet was almost destroyed.

As somewhat of a digression: Isn't Trunks the only character with Saiya-jin blood who never screwed around when he was fighting weaker opponents? Super Saiya-jin Vegeta probably would have taken centuries to kill Freeza and King Cold had he been the one to confront them on Earth.

Professor Daravon · Post by **Professor Daravon** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:09 pm

Gohan was, in fact, eleven years old at the Cell Game.

Born 11 May 757.
Four years old when Raditz arrives (12 October 761).
Five years old when Vegeta and Nappa arrive (3 November 762).
Still five upon return to Earth from Namek (24 December 762).
Six years old when Tenshinhan and Chaouzu are revived (9 September 763).
Seven years old when Trunks arrives (August 764).
Ten years old when the Artificial Humans arrive (12 May 767).
Spends one day in the Room of Spirit and Time, emerging at biological age 11, but chronological age 10 (16-17 May 767).

EDIT: Just fixing the typo that Zackarotto pointed out.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:26 pm

Professor Daravon wrote:Born 11 May 767.

Do you mean 757? Just using logic, here. It doesn't work right with your other numbers.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:04 pm

Mochi wrote:
Jerseymilk wrote:Well, even if you include the "year" that Gohan spent in the Room of Spirit and Time, that would only make him ten in my opinion, since his birthday coming around a few days later, was just coincidental timing. It had hardly been an "additional year". And if you then take it from just the manga and not the anime, it would still be ten since, the birthday celebration is just filler for the anime.
I didn't know he was that young. I can't like him the same way anymore, or my friends are gonna call me a pedophile.

They wouldn't call you a pedophile for liking him when he's around 16 or 17 in the Buu saga, which is the point where I assume you like him from.

Kanzenshuu

Gohan's Intelligence

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