Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Posting a smiley doesn't say much.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Posting a smiley doesn't say much.

Well it says lolno. Base Goku being above 60,000,000 is best joke I've heard all day.

[RandomGuy96]

That's what's outright stated in the movie, so cut out the condescending bullshit. Either that or he was using an invisible kaio-ken, which I think he did in the anime.

[TheMightyOzaru]

That's what's outright stated in the movie, so cut out the condescending bullshit. Either that or he was using an invisible kaio-ken, which I think he did in the anime.

No it's not. You simply assume Cooler being impressed by Goku means Goku's base power level is greater than Freeza's 50% power. It's ultimately an absurd assumption that would make SSJ Goku's power level greater than 3,000,000,000. Yeah, I call bull shit. A Saiyan possessing a power level greater than 1 million would impress Cooler. Saiyans surpassing Freeza's first form is impressive since their levels barely break 10,000 if they are lucky. I wouldn't say I'm being condescending, I really did find your response humorous.

[RandomGuy96]

That's what's outright stated in the movie, so cut out the condescending bullshit. Either that or he was using an invisible kaio-ken, which I think he did in the anime.

No it's not. You simply assume Cooler being impressed by Goku means Goku's base power level is greater than Freeza's 50% power. It's ultimately an absurd assumption that would make SSJ Goku's power level greater than 3,000,000,000. Yeah, I call bull shit. A Saiyan possessing a power level greater than 1 million would impress Cooler. Saiyans surpassing Freeza's first form is impressive since their levels barely break 10,000 if they are lucky. I wouldn't say I'm being condescending, I really did find your response humorous.

Freeza's first three forms don't factor into this. Cooler knows that Freeza was killed in his final form. Yet you're assuming that he thought his brother transformed, then SUPPRESSED himself, then just let himself be killed? And that Cooler did the exact same thing, suppress himself to an extremely low percentage of power and ask Goku to attack him? Is Cooler an idiot? Does he have a death wish? Does he somehow not know even a fraction of Freeza's strength despite being his brother? Can he even talk right? I mean, he said that Goku did well enough in normal combat with him to defeat Freeza, yet he assumes a sneak attack according to you.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Really, where does Cooler say he knows his final form was done in? That's, again, another assumption. Besides Cooler can say anything he want's, he could say he could blow up the sun, it wouldn't be accur... oh wait. Why would Cooler toy with Goku? The same reason Freeza toyed with Goku all the way up to the point of his SSJ transformation. It's not a death wish, it's simply that he doesn't think much of him until he fights him. I'm not assuming anything. Freeza DID transform and DID Suppress himself.... Do you not remember their fight all or something?

[RandomGuy96]

Really, where does Cooler say he knows his final form was done in? That's, again, another assumption. Besides Cooler can say anything he want's, he could say he could blow up the sun, it wouldn't be accur... oh wait. Why would Cooler toy with Goku? The same reason Freeza toyed with Goku all the way up to the point of his SSJ transformation. It's not a death wish, it's simply that he doesn't think much of him until he fights him.I'm not assuming anything. Freeza DID transform and DID Suppress himself.... Do you not remember their fight all or something?

Piccolo mistakes him for Freeza, he doesn't say Piccolo can beat Freeza (despite being stronger than at least his first two forms), and then Goku mistakes Cooler for Freeza.. why would he think that Freeza wasn't in his final form? Does Cooler never look in a mirror? Does he think that he looks like a four and a half foot tall demon with horns?

There's a difference between toying and suppressing yourself to a tiny fraction of power and then INVITING SOMEONE TO ATTACK YOU. He's pretty much asking to get killed.

Yes, he did transform. What about it? And yes, he did suppress himself... right up until he was actually in danger, like during the KK x20 Kamehameha sequence.

[TheMightyOzaru]

You think Toei would take that into consideration? Furthermore, again, he could have simply got the jump on a Freeza who was toying with him. It's not very hard to believe. You also put waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much stock and or assumptions into simple statements. Yeah Goku would get a Zenkai greater than 20x despite the fact that the Daizenshuu's state that Zenkai's drop in effectiveness or straight up disappear after Freeza. You also seem to be forgetting that Cooler later says that his SSJ form must have been how he killed his brother. I just can't even take you seriously right now...., and I mean that in the least rude way possible.

[RandomGuy96]

You think Toei would take that into consideration? Furthermore, again, he could have simply got the jump on a Freeza who was toying with him. It's not very hard to believe. You also put waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much stock and or assumptions into simple statements. Yeah Goku would get a Zenkai greater than 20x despite the fact that the Daizenshuu's state that Zenkai's drop in effectiveness or straight up disappear after Freeza. You also seem to be forgetting that Cooler later says that his SSJ form must have been how he killed his brother. I just can't even take you seriously right now...., and I mean that in the least rude way possible.

...how is going from x33 to x20 or lower not a drop in effectiveness...? Anyway, I just assume that he was using the same invisible kaio-ken x10 that he was in the anime, and that "enough" to defeat Freeza refers to a power very close to 50% Freeza, not necessarily higher. Not that base Goku being stronger than Freeza would be implausible. He's been haxxed before in the movies. Remember him being way stronger than Gohan in Movie 13?

Again, that's illogical because: Freeza started using 50% power after the warm up. Cooler wasn't commenting on Goku's ability to ambush Freeza. He never even implied such a thing. He specifically said, after a fight, that Goku "did well" in that fight, "enough to defeat [Freeza]".

And no, that's a misconception that really bugs me. He never says that SS Goku is what let him kill Freeza. He says that the Goku he fought earlier was "enough to defeat Freeza". He said SS Goku was so strong that Freeza would be "no match".

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Daizenshuu's say that increases became almost unnoticeable. I rest my case. And Goku couldn't kill Freeza before pumping up to 50% because...? This is all Cooler's thoughts, he doesn't know how Freeza was killed he just knows he was killed. It's not too hard to believe that Cooler thinks that Freeza was toying with him allowing him the opportunity to strike big. Do you honestly believe for a split second that SSJ Goku's power level in Movie 5, MOVIE 5!, is greater than 3 BILLION!? No... just no.

[RandomGuy96]

You just said that it became smaller or became unnoticeable.

And two things: one, I'm not necessarily saying that base Goku has to be stronger than Freeza, and two, this is a movie, why would it care about the Daizenshuu?

Again, if he assumed that Goku was a weakling that only could beat Freeza with a sneak attack, then first of all, he's still an idiot, and secondly, why was he impressed by Goku's performance in a fight? How would he gauge that Goku is good at ambushes from a fist fight?

[TheMightyOzaru]

You just said that it became smaller or became unnoticeable.

And two things: one, I'm not necessarily saying that base Goku has to be stronger than Freeza, and two, this is a movie, why would it care about the Daizenshuu?

Again, if he assumed that Goku was a weakling that only could beat Freeza with a sneak attack, then first of all, he's still an idiot, and secondly, why was he impressed by Goku's performance in a fight? How would he gauge that Goku is good at ambushes from a fist fight?

The Daizenshuu's apply to everything Dragon Ball. Umm yes you were, you said Goku has to be stronger than Freeza's 50% power. He merely assumed Freeza didn't think much of Goku, which was a big mistake. Cooler didn't think much of Goku either until he took a punch to the face.

[RandomGuy96]

You just said that it became smaller or became unnoticeable.

And two things: one, I'm not necessarily saying that base Goku has to be stronger than Freeza, and two, this is a movie, why would it care about the Daizenshuu?

Again, if he assumed that Goku was a weakling that only could beat Freeza with a sneak attack, then first of all, he's still an idiot, and secondly, why was he impressed by Goku's performance in a fight? How would he gauge that Goku is good at ambushes from a fist fight?

The Daizenshuu's apply to everything Dragon Ball. Umm yes you were, you said Goku has to be stronger than Freeza's 50% power. He merely assumed Freeza didn't think much of Goku, which was a big mistake. Cooler didn't think much of Goku either until he took a punch to the face.

1. Wrong. I said this earlier:

Anyway, I just assume that he was using the same invisible kaio-ken x10 that he was in the anime, and that "enough" to defeat Freeza refers to a power very close to 50% Freeza, not necessarily higher. Not that base Goku being stronger than Freeza would be implausible. He's been haxxed before in the movies. Remember him being way stronger than Gohan in Movie 13?

2. And then after he let him get those punches in, he assumed that this Goku was enough to beat Freeza in a fight. He says nothing about sneak attacks and everything about his combat performance.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Invisible Kaioken isn't a thing. Yes that power would defeat a Freeza that didn't think much of Goku. Nothing has to be said about suppression, it's simple logic that Goku wouldn't even be near 5% of Freeza's power...

[Kaboom]

ANOTHER argument so soon? Come on.

[TheMightyOzaru]

ANOTHER argument so soon? Come on.

Sorry but base Goku > 50% Freeza in Movie 5 was just asking for an argument.

[Saiga]

@Kaboom I figured both Kuririn and Gohan would be above 1,500 and just powered up that high as a rough estimation of what they needed, since they were only doing so for an instant.

Also, I never knew Daizenshuu 7 said that about the Future Androids... I don't think my idea on the Androids just holding back works, then. Damn, I'll have to rethink that.

I also don't take Yo! into consideration.

And I disagree about Dabra vs Gohan being a big gap... from what little we saw of the fight, they were quite even. Vegeta was the only one making a fuss about Gohan's performance and he was likely exaggerating.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Here is what I have for GT so far:

Dragon Ball GT Power Levels

Black Star Dragon Ball Saga

Vegeta: 1,300,000,000
---SSJ: 65,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 130,000,000,000
Goku: 3,800,000,000
---RSSJ: 37,900,000,000
---SSJ: 190,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 380,000,000,000
---SSJ3: 1,520,000,000,000
Uub: 36,000,000,000

Baby Saga

Goku: 4,000,000,000
---SSJ: 200,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 400,000,000,000
---SSJ3: 1,600,000,000,000-
---Golden Oozaru: 2,000,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 16,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 1,500,000,000
---SSJ: 75,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 150,000,000,000
---Baby: 1,500,000,000,000
---Super Baby: 1,660,000,000,000
---Super Baby 2: 1,800,000,000,000
---Golden Oozaru: 18,000,000,000,000
Uub: 38,000,000,000
---Super: 1,732,800,000,000

Super 17 Saga

Goku: 4,000,000,000
---RSSJ: 39,900,000,000
---SSJ: 200,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 400,000,000,000
---SSJ3: 1,600,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 16,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 1,600,000,000
---SSJ: 80,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 160,000,000,000
Super Uub: 1,750,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 20,000,000,000
Freeza: 400,000,000
Hell Figher 17: 1,600,000,000
---Super: 5,760,000,000,000
---Super(Energy Absorbed): 37,760,000,000,000

Shadow Dragon Saga

Goku: 4,000,000,000
---SSJ: 200,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 400,000,000,000
---SSJ3: 1,600,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 16,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 1,800,000,000
---SSJ: 90,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 180,000,000,000
---Oozaru: 18,000,000,000
---Golden Oozaru: 900,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 7,200,000,000,000
Gogeta: 360,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 1,440,000,000,000,000
Er Xing Long: 1,000,000
Wu Xing Long: 50,000
---Electric Slime: 5,000,000,000,000
Liu Xing Long: 700,000,000
Qi Xing Long: 6,000
---Mole Absorbed: 600,000,000
---Pan Absorbed: 6,000,000,000,000
Si Xing Long: 4,000,000,000,000
---Super: 16,000,000,000,000
San Xing Long: 13,000,000,000,000
Yi Xing Long: 18,000,000,000,000
---Super: 180,000,000,000,000

[Draken]

How is Uub on RESSJ Goku's level when Goku was sparring with him in base...?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Rssj is base Goku utilizing some of his Ssj energy. That's how I explain Base Goku putting up a fight against Uub, Freeza, and Cell in base. As to why I didn't make base Goku generally on par, he shouldn't be thaaaat much stronger than Vegeta, whom I feel was able to tap into that hidden power we see in BoG. And yes there is some sense to be made with Rssj. When Goku powers up against Freeza and Cell, he has a Ssj aura.