Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

[ect5150]

Exactly which is why no one should alter their footage if they want it most accurate because it can all be done through a modern tv set.

Noise reduction set to whatever...lowering reds if it's too red...lowering blues if too blue...messing with tint...etc I'll try and find some more info I had a really good article that went into more depth but can't seem to find it.

Dude! I think you miss the point of this thread. People watch more than just DBZ on their TV / Monitor / Ipads / etc. While your suggestion is perfectly possible (and would probably yield theoretically better results if you could pull it off properly since nothing is being re-encoded), it's impractical that way since the color corrections wouldn't match anything else you'd be watching.

[Corpsecreate]

You cant correct DBZ properly through tv colour calibration settings alone. Don't even try.




You cant do this on a TV.

[IIMaxII]

Exactly which is why no one should alter their footage if they want it most accurate because it can all be done through a modern tv set.

Noise reduction set to whatever...lowering reds if it's too red...lowering blues if too blue...messing with tint...etc I'll try and find some more info I had a really good article that went into more depth but can't seem to find it.

Dude! I think you miss the point of this thread. People watch more than just DBZ on their TV / Monitor / Ipads / etc. While your suggestion is perfectly possible (and would probably yield theoretically better results if you could pull it off properly since nothing is being re-encoded), it's impractical that way since the color corrections wouldn't match anything else you'd be watching.

How so? I said just to change the footage to already be correct on a calibrated TV/Monitor.

[IIMaxII]

You cant correct DBZ properly through tv colour calibration settings alone. Don't even try.




You cant do this on a TV.

Proof? All that has to be done is changing the tones of the colors...have a preset on a tv for DBZ calibration...and just change the preset if you want to watch something else.

[Ajay]

Proof? All that has to be done is changing the tones of the colors...have a preset on a tv for DBZ calibration...and just change the preset if you want to watch something else.

What magical TV has the ability to strip the green tone out the image without changing the other colours in the image?

[Corpsecreate]

You cant correct DBZ properly through tv colour calibration settings alone. Don't even try.




You cant do this on a TV.

Proof? All that has to be done is changing the tones of the colors...have a preset on a tv for DBZ calibration...and just change the preset if you want to watch something else.

One thing you dont seem to realise is that each and every episode requires its own unique calibration. You couldn't have one calibration for all episodes because it would be good for some episodes and would make others even worse.

[superrayman3]

One thing you dont seem to realise is that each and every episode requires its own unique calibration. You couldn't have one calibration for all episodes because it would be good for some episodes and would make others even worse.

I agree each episode has its own unique level of color cast so while changing the colors on a TV could correct the colors for some episodes it'll make some episodes colors look off, on that note I decided to try something out, I decided to try using the same settings that I used to color correct DB movie 3 to color correct the DBOX version of the first DBZ opening and this was the end result.


What do you guys think?

[Ajay]

As much as many people consider it the 'perfect' release being that it's essentially just the Japanese version of the show including the title cards and the higher quality audio (as high as it can be without the masters), it has so many colour balance issues that it totally throws off my enjoyment at times.

Currently rewatching the Buu saga and scenes like this just totally baffle me as to how they slipped through. It's obviously not a consistent thing being that many of the episodes are perfect. Heck, I don't so much mind the pink skin but this is a complete shambles.



Such a strong green hue over the entire image. Funny thing is, the next episode features pretty much the exact same scene but with the correct colour as my corrected version above.

If the show wasn't so long, I'd correct the entire thing.

[ect5150]

That screenshot above is from EP 218... and the same shot is used in the recap in Ep 219 (which I just happen to have on the harddrive trying some new video filters out). The color difference is staggering... (the original version is on the left, my edited one is on the right, even though they look identical).



But the color cast is completely different for the exact same scene one episode later. The color cast must have set in due to the conditions they kept the film in or something. I used to think it was maybe the age of the film, but this surprised me.

I don't know where you downloaded those episodes in the screenshot above, but damned if they don't have smoothing filters out the wazoo on them... here is my quick attempt throwing a bunch of smoothers at the same image roughly, just with better colors--


click to enlarge

[ect5150]

...each and every episode requires its own unique calibration.

On this note, I'd like to point out the color cast appears to change across each episode. After experimenting some, it appears that 1)the intro has one color cast, 2) the potion of the episode up until the commercial break has a different color cast, 3) the remaining portion of the episode has another, 4) the credits has it's own set, and 5) the next episode preview appears to have a different set as well (to be honest, I think the previous episode recap might have one as well, but it was so close to the first half of the episode I've been testing, I couldn't really tell).

I've noticed I would perform the guide on a few Buu saga episodes and would get the back half of the episode just right only to find the first half was still off. So, previous experience with adjusting subtitles in a similar fashion led me to the conclusion above - that the episode needs to divided up into sections, and have the process performed separately on each section. I was working on ep 219 (hence I recognized the above shot). I split the episode up and have been working out a small template for a script to split it up in that fashion today. I'm much happier with the coloring results.

I currently have a nice(er) grain removal script that I wanted to post some screens of to you guys soon (since some eyes on here appear to be better than mine). Nothing that smooths excessively like the above screens, but something that takes the edge off of the grain and still has a lot of sharpness. I'm encoding the episode right now as I need to see it in motion first (but it's balls-to-the-wall slow). I'll post some screens soon to get some feedback.

[Ajay]

I don't know where you downloaded those episodes in the screenshot above, but damned if they don't have smoothing filters out the wazoo on them

Oh yeah, it's just a really poor, low bitrate Dragon Box rip I had around. No grain or clarity to the image whatsoever. Kinda defeats the point of having the Dragon Boxes but it was the only digital copy I had to hand. Same colour problems but you get the idea - it was just a quick example.

[ect5150]

Hey guys! I want to run a small experiment, but I'll need someone to help. I'm using this guide on the Japanese Dragon Boxes. Basically, I want to see if using the US Dragon Boxes across the same script will generate identical results. My understanding is the two have slightly different brightness levels.

If anyone wants to help me test, send me a PM. Essentially I want someone to try my script from a R2 DBox on a R1 Dbox and take a bunch of screen shots and we'd analyze them.

[kei17]

Such a strong green hue over the entire image. Funny thing is, the next episode features pretty much the exact same scene but with the correct colour as my corrected version above.

Each negative film has its own serial number called "emulsion number", and films having the same emulsion number means that they were produced with the same photographic emulsion at the same time. Films produced with different emulsions fade away differently, so color cast varies from episode to episode. Recaps were filmed on the same negative films as their actual episodes that play after them, so recaps and their former episodes have different colors even though they share the same scenes.

[Corpsecreate]

And then theres episode 225.



Completely different colour cast again. It's only like this on the second half of the episode though. Sometimes you will get entire episodes or half-episodes that looks terrible and then other times an episode will it looks mostly fine, but there's occasionally some scenes that look bad. A perfect example of this is episode 150.

[kei17]

Sometimes you will get entire episodes or half-episodes that looks terrible and then other times an episode will it looks mostly fine, but there's occasionally some scenes that look bad. A perfect example of this is episode 150.

That's because they occasionally used films with different emulsion numbers within an episode. When pros color-correct films, they sort all shots by their emulsion numbers to gather shots with the same level of discoloration together. Also, shots with special effects can be damaged easier than normal shots.

[ect5150]

Sometimes you will get entire episodes or half-episodes that looks terrible and then other times an episode will it looks mostly fine, but there's occasionally some scenes that look bad. A perfect example of this is episode 150.

That's because they occasionally used films with different emulsion numbers within an episode. When pros color-correct films, they sort all shots by their emulsion numbers to gather shots with the same level of discoloration together. Also, shots with special effects can be damaged easier than normal shots.

Interesting -- it looks to me (by doing episodes myself) that the episodes are split up around the commercial break (the eyecatch). I've done a few episodes like this (looking at part of the episode instead of the whole episode) and this makes more sense with the results.

Either way, I wonder if this thread will be needed in the long run due to the new DBZ BluRays (well.. i guess I can start on the DB episodes instead since it doesn't look like FUNI is interested in remastering DB and or GT or even the DBox Movies).

[ect5150]

Also, shots with special effects can be damaged easier than normal shots.

Curious, why would this be? What difference would it make once it's all on the film?

[kei17]

Also, shots with special effects can be damaged easier than normal shots.

Curious, why would this be? What difference would it make once it's all on the film?

That's because shots with special effects were multiply-exposed. For example, when you crossfade two shots, you film the former first and film the latter on the same frame again. Then you lengthen the second exposure in stages frame by frame. Multiple exposures somewhat damage films, so shots with special effects tend to deteriorate more rapidly.

[ect5150]

That's because shots with special effects were multiply-exposed. For example, when you crossfade two shots, you film the former first and film the latter on the same frame again. Then you lengthen the second exposure in stages frame by frame. Multiple exposures somewhat damage films, so shots with special effects tend to deteriorate more rapidly.

Makes sense, I guess... but it seems like that would be almost negligible since those shots don't stand out as being worse quality.

[Attitudefan]

As time progressed, the ability of film preservation has gotten better. Look at old fils, and usually during a fade out, the film would/could look very damaged.