Do people here think FUNimation's Z Dub is the worst dub?

[90sDBZ]

Well another thing I thought of is the taste in music the English-speaking and even a lot of the non-English speaking fans seem to have. If you go on Youtube and search up some DBZ AMVs you'll immediately notice that the vast majority of them have heavy metal music playing which gives off a similar feeling to what Faulconer gave off a lot of the time. So it's clear that it isn't just the Funi Z dub fans that feel a hardcore heavy metal style of music fits with DBZ. A lot of the videos are posted by fans from countries that kept Kikuchi's score.

[Kakarot88]

I'm not really following your points in this latest post.

People are still making DBZ AMVs with Linkin Park because DBZ is still relevant and Linkin Park is still relevant. People put together things they like.

As I said before, DBZ took off on Toonami primarily because it aired immediately after school as kids were getting home. That's why the exact same content that was only partially popular when it first aired in 1996 at 6 am suddenly became a massive phenomenon two years later when it ran as-is on Toonami at 5 pm. Remember, it was these repeats of seasons one and two that got you a third season. Faulconer was still a non-existent twinkle in your eye at that point.

Got ya, ok here's my point: none of those US broadcast seasons used the original music. They all did better than Kai. The linkin Park comment is merely to show that Anericans by and large associate action with heavy lead guitar and bass as opposed to trumpets and rattles.

For me personally, when my friends got into DBZ I was like "this shit is lame." But "all the cool kids" were watching it so I was like fine I'll try too, gotta love peer pressure, I see Freeza transform hear the hells bells music with Vegeta (I love AC/DC) and boom I was hooked! I finished the series (well up to garlic junior damn you toonami and making me wait lol) and rewatched it from the beginning all because the epic fights and dialogue coupled with Faulconer's music hooked me. To this day I work out to that shit because it screams pushing yourself past your limits. Sure parts are very terrible to it, but the scenes that matter most to me as a child...phenomenal! Intense and adrenalin pumping. The trumpets and rattles just don't do it for me. I think if it did then we would see more YouTube vids of that and not a heavy metal association...

[ABED]

Well another thing I thought of is the taste in music the English-speaking and even a lot of the non-English speaking fans seem to have. If you go on Youtube and search up some DBZ AMVs you'll immediately notice that the vast majority of them have heavy metal music playing which gives off a similar feeling to what Faulconer gave off a lot of the time. So it's clear that it isn't just the Funi Z dub fans that feel a hardcore heavy metal style of music fits with DBZ. A lot of the videos are posted by fans from countries that kept Kikuchi's score.

Why make a music video to orchestral music? Plus, you can fit almost anything to a music video.

"none of those US broadcast seasons used the original music. They all did better than Kai."
Ad hoc ergo propter hoc!

Wait, DBZ's dialog hooked you? So "mondo cool" and "Yes, Yes, YES!" were what grabbed you?

[Gaffer Tape]

The Levy score somewhat engaged me because (although I didn't consciously realize it at the time) it reminded me of Power Rangers. The Faulconer score always made me cringe, even when I was a kid. But it was the original score, from the first time I heard it, and not even knowing what it was, that I finally felt truly engaged by it. That it tapped into the emotion of the series and the characters and, yes, the action. I'm just not sure why it is some people think that "badass" synth guitar is what is required to fit action when so much of the opposite has been proven true, that orchestral scores are still the go-to sound for action/adventure, be it Star Wars, Star Trek, Harry Potter, and every one of those movies based on superheroes that you (Kakarot88 ) reference as being in your face "faster than a speeding bullet." Americans respond to orchestral scores.

Gaffer Tape, don't compare the new Treks with Transformers. The new Treks have story, heart, good performances and are well made. Transformers appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Not to wander too far off-topic, but I couldn't disagree more. They're exactly the same thing. The new Treks have absolutely no story save that which leads into the next action setpiece. I'll give you the performances are good, but the characters are nothing more complex than catch-phrase-spewing caricatures. Lip service is given to themes, but they're never explored in any way. Again, they're just there to have an excuse for more explosions. They do their best to rip off classic emotions and scenes from The Wrath of Khan, but without context they just fall flat (and, again, serve to lead into yet another action scene). They are truly movies for the lowest common denominator.

[dbzfan7]

Real fair comparison. DBZ is on at a time where people still watch lots of tv and have a lot less channels (and on at a solid 5pm schedule) compared to a remake that shows nothing new and is on at a time where there are many more channels and on a time where the internet is used more than television. Real fair comparison. DBZ Kai is nicktoons highest rated show when it was on.

[VegettoEX]

I'm totally not saying that you couldn't get something out of Faulconer's score. You clearly did. That's awesome... but I don't think you can pin its success so much on that.

There were/are just too many other factors in play. Kids are pretty accepting of things, but they're also pretty fickle... particularly when it comes to "old" things. And it's not just kids! It's tough to get adults to watch old things, too... unless said old things are from their own time. It's weird. I know. Just stick with me .

Like others have said, Kai never had a chance of surpassing DBZ's original success in North America. The timeslot was a huge factor, and I'd argue the biggest. You can't beat running home from school to catch a new episode. Not even Saturday morning cartoons can beat that! Five days a week? New shit on right when you get home? BAD. ASS.

(Of course, I was in college by that point and just watching it to make fun of it for another year... so I'm projecting, here .)

But it also looked "old". The animation was nowhere near as slick as the other stuff it was up against. It was awesome, and we all love(d) it, but put yourself in the mindset of an actual eight-year-old. Kids are just going to move onto the new hotness, and there's always a new hotness waiting for them.

And there's the whole "we have too much media" point that others keep bringing up. Hundreds more TV channels, whatever it is kids do on the Internet these days, more video games than are humanly consumable, books, homework, movies... There's too much competition for its time, and so the fact that Kai did as well as it did -- and it DID do well! -- is a true testament to how goddamn awesome it is.

[Kakarot88]

DBZ QUOTES

It's done.
What do you mean?!...Don't just stand there say something! You said its done what do you mean?!
Your energy level is decreasing with every blow, in fact you're not even a challenge to me any more. It wouldn't be fair for me to keep fighting you. I'm satisfied now. Your pride has been torn to shreds. You've challenged and lost to a fighter who is superior to you. And to make it worse he's just a monkey...right? It would be meaningless to fight you now. You're too scared and ashamed. Live with the shock. Keep it bottled up inside you. Silently.
—Goku
Goodbye Frieza, never do mischief again. May you live the rest of your life in peace.

I don't understand why you call Saiyans by such mindless names. The only thing it does is reveal your own fear and ignorance. I guess name calling is your only attack because you're too WEAK to challenge me any other way!
—Goku

Strength is the only thing that matters in this world. Everything else is just a delusion for the weak.
There is only one certainty in life...a strong man stands above and conquers all!!! —Vegeta

Is it diff from the original?! YES!!! Is it epic? Yes! The Faulconer's music was awesome and the made up speeches rocked too. I also love the original all Japanese version. They are different and great for different experiences.

The original has a ton of stupid lines too.

[ABED]

The Levy score somewhat engaged me because (although I didn't consciously realize it at the time) it reminded me of Power Rangers. The Faulconer score always made me cringe, even when I was a kid. But it was the original score, from the first time I heard it, and not even knowing what it was, that I finally felt truly engaged by it. That it tapped into the emotion of the series and the characters and, yes, the action. I'm just not sure why it is some people think that "badass" synth guitar is what is required to fit action when so much of the opposite has been proven true, that orchestral scores are still the go-to sound for action/adventure, be it Star Wars, Star Trek, Harry Potter, and every one of those movies based on superheroes that you (Kakarot88 ) reference as being in your face "faster than a speeding bullet."

Gaffer Tape, don't compare the new Treks with Transformers. The new Treks have story, heart, good performances and are well made. Transformers appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Not to wander too far off-topic, but I couldn't disagree more. They're exactly the same thing. The new Treks have absolutely no story save that which leads into the next action setpiece. I'll give you the performances are good, but the characters are nothing more complex than catch-phrase-spewing caricatures. Lip service is given to themes, but they're never explored in any way. Again, they're just there to have an excuse for more explosions. They do their best to rip off classic emotions and scenes from The Wrath of Khan, but without context they just fall flat (and, again, serve to lead into yet another action scene). They are truly movies for the lowest common denominator.

I couldn't disagree more, there were action scenes throughout, but there was a story about destiny and Kirk and Spock forging a bond, and what lengths they'll go to protect each other. I think Wrath of Khan is overrated and rather boring. I felt the performances weren't all that good whereas in STID, I actually got a little misty during the death scene. Excellent performances all around.

Just because they don't spend half a movie talking about the themes doesn't mean they aren't explored. What makes Tranformers 2 and 3 horrible is the nauseating way in which the action is shot. I agree that STID is a pseudo remake of Khan but it's still well made. Bay's action is hard to follow and has little consequence to it, and the humor is juvenile, and there isn't a single good performance in those films except for maybe Peter Cullen. There's no comparison.

[dbzfan7]

I'm totally not saying that you couldn't get something out of Faulconer's score. You clearly did. That's awesome... but I don't think you can pin its success so much on that.

There were/are just too many other factors in play. Kids are pretty accepting of things, but they're also pretty fickle... particularly when it comes to "old" things. And it's not just kids! It's tough to get adults to watch old things, too... unless said old things are from their own time. It's weird. I know. Just stick with me .

Like others have said, Kai never had a chance of surpassing DBZ's original success in North America. The timeslot was a huge factor, and I'd argue the biggest. You can't beat running home from school to catch a new episode. Not even Saturday morning cartoons can beat that! Five days a week? New shit on right when you get home? BAD. ASS.

(Of course, I was in college by that point and just watching it to make fun of it for another year... so I'm projecting, here .)

But it also looked "old". The animation was nowhere near as slick as the other stuff it was up against. It was awesome, and we all love(d) it, but put yourself in the mindset of an actual eight-year-old. Kids are just going to move onto the new hotness, and there's always a new hotness waiting for them.

And there's the whole "we have too much media" point that others keep bringing up. Hundreds more TV channels, whatever it is kids do on the Internet these days, more video games than are humanly consumable, books, homework, movies... There's too much competition for its time, and so the fact that Kai did as well as it did -- and it DID do well! -- is a true testament to how goddamn awesome it is.

Right. If DBZ was aired for the first time in America in today's standards it would not do nearly as good as it did back then.

[Kakarot88]

I'm totally not saying that you couldn't get something out of Faulconer's score. You clearly did. That's awesome... but I don't think you can pin its success so much on that.

There were/are just too many other factors in play. Kids are pretty accepting of things, but they're also pretty fickle... particularly when it comes to "old" things. And it's not just kids! It's tough to get adults to watch old things, too... unless said old things are from their own time. It's weird. I know. Just stick with me .

Like others have said, Kai never had a chance of surpassing DBZ's original success in North America. The timeslot was a huge factor, and I'd argue the biggest. You can't beat running home from school to catch a new episode. Not even Saturday morning cartoons can beat that! Five days a week? New shit on right when you get home? BAD. ASS.

(Of course, I was in college by that point and just watching it to make fun of it for another year... so I'm projecting, here .)

But it also looked "old". The animation was nowhere near as slick as the other stuff it was up against. It was awesome, and we all love(d) it, but put yourself in the mindset of an actual eight-year-old. Kids are just going to move onto the new hotness, and there's always a new hotness waiting for them.

And there's the whole "we have too much media" point that others keep bringing up. Hundreds more TV channels, whatever it is kids do on the Internet these days, more video games than are humanly consumable, books, homework, movies... There's too much competition for its time, and so the fact that Kai did as well as it did -- and it DID do well! -- is a true testament to how goddamn awesome it is.

AHHHH you said it best! And I didn't consider the multitude of media Kai is up against and the DVR factor...back in my day you had to make your own VHS no fancy fangled DVR. Why I remember...

I think we can all agree though that the "Big Green" dub is the worst.

[ABED]

DBZ QUOTES

It's done.
What do you mean?!...Don't just stand there say something! You said its done what do you mean?!
Your energy level is decreasing with every blow, in fact you're not even a challenge to me any more. It wouldn't be fair for me to keep fighting you. I'm satisfied now. Your pride has been torn to shreds. You've challenged and lost to a fighter who is superior to you. And to make it worse he's just a monkey...right? It would be meaningless to fight you now. You're too scared and ashamed. Live with the shock. Keep it bottled up inside you. Silently.
—Goku
Goodbye Freeza, never do mischief again. May you live the rest of your life in peace.

I don't understand why you call Saiyans by such mindless names. The only thing it does is reveal your own fear and ignorance. I guess name calling is your only attack because you're too WEAK to challenge me any other way!
—Goku

Strength is the only thing that matters in this world. Everything else is just a delusion for the weak.
There is only one certainty in life...a strong man stands above and conquers all!!! —Vegeta

Is it diff from the original?! YES!!! Is it epic? Yes! The Faulconer's music was awesome and the made up speeches rocked too. I also love the original all Japanese version. They are different and great for different experiences.

The original has a ton of stupid lines too.

The Vegeta line is pretty good, and so is the first Goku line, but for every "epic" line, I can think of a number of ridiculous lines.
"it's a bird, it's a plane, no it's Goku!"
"Mondo Cool"
"No, Piccolo grabbed the grabber!"
"Guess who joined the super Saiyan club"
"Ally to good, nightmare to you"
"Sometimes you gotta know, when to go, go, go..."

Many of those lines you say are epic, are said other places in the original, in slightly different ways, and Goku would never say, "The only thing it does is reveal your own fear and ignorance."

Not to come off as insecure, but I mentioned several times the number of different media that Kai is up against, although Mike probably said it better. I do find it weird that you just now noticed that point.

[dbzfan7]

I'm totally not saying that you couldn't get something out of Faulconer's score. You clearly did. That's awesome... but I don't think you can pin its success so much on that.

There were/are just too many other factors in play. Kids are pretty accepting of things, but they're also pretty fickle... particularly when it comes to "old" things. And it's not just kids! It's tough to get adults to watch old things, too... unless said old things are from their own time. It's weird. I know. Just stick with me .

Like others have said, Kai never had a chance of surpassing DBZ's original success in North America. The timeslot was a huge factor, and I'd argue the biggest. You can't beat running home from school to catch a new episode. Not even Saturday morning cartoons can beat that! Five days a week? New shit on right when you get home? BAD. ASS.

(Of course, I was in college by that point and just watching it to make fun of it for another year... so I'm projecting, here .)

But it also looked "old". The animation was nowhere near as slick as the other stuff it was up against. It was awesome, and we all love(d) it, but put yourself in the mindset of an actual eight-year-old. Kids are just going to move onto the new hotness, and there's always a new hotness waiting for them.

And there's the whole "we have too much media" point that others keep bringing up. Hundreds more TV channels, whatever it is kids do on the Internet these days, more video games than are humanly consumable, books, homework, movies... There's too much competition for its time, and so the fact that Kai did as well as it did -- and it DID do well! -- is a true testament to how goddamn awesome it is.

AHHHH you said it best! And I didn't consider the multitude of media Kai is up against and the DVR factor...back in my day you had to make your own VHS no fancy fangled DVR. Why I remember...

I think we can all agree though that the "Big Green" dub is the worst.

IDK the Malaysian dub is pretty bad.

[ABED]

What stupid lines are you referring to from the original version? Kaio-sama's lines don't count, they're intentionally silly.

Even if there might be some, they dont' even come close to the sheer number and stupidity of the dub's.
"You dirty crook, you stole your mother's pocket book"
"Be careful Jeice or you'll stain your gloves"
"Good ol' Namek, where balls are born"
"Hear me now, hear my howl and make my wish come true!"
"It's times like this that I say to myself: Why didn't I become a shoe salesman?"

[VegettoEX]

What stupid lines are you referring to from the original version? Kaio-sama's lines don't count, they're intentionally silly.

I dunno. I'm happy to concede on this point. Sorta. Occasionally (not not much ). Things like "Kurai! Koitsu ga Suupaa Bejiita no BIG BANG ATTACK!" sound pretty great in Japanese (and it's because Horikawa totally sells that shit), but when you translate it out, "Take this! This is Super Vegeta's Big Bang Attack!" does sound kinda... well... basic.

[ABED]

What stupid lines are you referring to from the original version? Kaio-sama's lines don't count, they're intentionally silly.

I dunno. I'm happy to concede on this point. Sorta. Occasionally (not not much ). Things like "Kurai! Koitsu ga Suupaa Bejiita no BIG BANG ATTACK!" sound pretty great in Japanese (and it's because Horikawa totally sells that shit), but when you translate it out, "Take this! This is Super Vegeta's Big Bang Attack!" does sound kinda... well... basic.

I'll admit that some of the dialog does sound stiff and over explanitory, but lines like that are nowhere near as bad as "Krillin's in da house!"

[OmegaRockman]

I'm totally not saying that you couldn't get something out of Faulconer's score. You clearly did. That's awesome... but I don't think you can pin its success so much on that.

There were/are just too many other factors in play. Kids are pretty accepting of things, but they're also pretty fickle... particularly when it comes to "old" things. And it's not just kids! It's tough to get adults to watch old things, too... unless said old things are from their own time. It's weird. I know. Just stick with me .

Like others have said, Kai never had a chance of surpassing DBZ's original success in North America. The timeslot was a huge factor, and I'd argue the biggest. You can't beat running home from school to catch a new episode. Not even Saturday morning cartoons can beat that! Five days a week? New shit on right when you get home? BAD. ASS.

(Of course, I was in college by that point and just watching it to make fun of it for another year... so I'm projecting, here .)

But it also looked "old". The animation was nowhere near as slick as the other stuff it was up against. It was awesome, and we all love(d) it, but put yourself in the mindset of an actual eight-year-old. Kids are just going to move onto the new hotness, and there's always a new hotness waiting for them.

And there's the whole "we have too much media" point that others keep bringing up. Hundreds more TV channels, whatever it is kids do on the Internet these days, more video games than are humanly consumable, books, homework, movies... There's too much competition for its time, and so the fact that Kai did as well as it did -- and it DID do well! -- is a true testament to how goddamn awesome it is.

AHHHH you said it best! And I didn't consider the multitude of media Kai is up against and the DVR factor...back in my day you had to make your own VHS no fancy fangled DVR. Why I remember...

I think we can all agree though that the "Big Green" dub is the worst.

IDK the Malaysian dub is pretty bad.

Well, at least the scripts are more or less accurate to the original from what I've seen, even if the English is a mangled mess.

[dbzfan7]

Well, at least the scripts are more or less accurate to the original from what I've seen, even if the English is a mangled mess.

The voices are so hilarious. Just listen to Shenlong.

[Kakarot88]

ABED

Yeah you and Mike made the same point but he added DVR or I should say the fact of having to go home and watch it into the mix which made me think differently. Plus he acknowledge you can get something out of the TOONAMI version whereas you never really made such an assertion. Had you I would be more willing to agree. See I am a for people expressing how they feel about wholesome entertainment but not at the expense of belittling what others enjoy. I mean you straight up asked what lines were good. And that Vegeta line you liked would never appear in Kai cuz it is from a "filler" [sic] I prefer "bonus" scene.

[ABED]

ABED

Yeah you and Mike made the same point but he added DVR or I should say the fact of having to go home and watch it into the mix which made me think differently. Plus he acknowledge you can get something out of the TOONAMI version whereas you never really made such an assertion. Had you I would be more willing to agree. See I am a for people expressing how they feel about wholesome entertainment but not at the expense of belittling what others enjoy. I mean you straight up asked what lines were good. And that Vegeta line you liked would never appear in Lai cuz it is from a "filler" [sic] I prefer "bonus" scene.

I enjoy the added scene as well, but Kai cut it out for a purpose, and one good line isn't enough to make me enjoy an otherwise infintile dub.

I'm not belittling YOU. I just vehemently dislike the dialog. Was every dub line terrilbe? No, and I never said that. Were there a few lines that I really dug from the dub? Probably, but overall it wasn't a well written adaptation. The dialog was sillier than it should've been and characterizations were changed. Enjoy what you will, but how is having a negative opinion about the dub somehow a sore spot? When you say "I am all for people expressing how they feel, but not at the expense of belittling what others enjoy" I'm not bashing it for the sake of bashing it. Those lines are a legit sore spot for me. I want to enjoy a good dub, which Kai is, but those lines and inappropriate voices and green actors interfere with my enjoyment. Plus, there are a number of times the writers show they don't understand the show they are adapting.

I'll admit that I do sometimes get nostalgic for those days but I would've watched anything Dragon Ball related and still prefer if we got a better product.

I'll grand you that he added the DVR, but I do think that the proliferation of media is a very significant reason why all ratings are down across the board, moreso than DVR. I didn't think of the after school experience.

[B]

Faulconer's music carried a great deal of the show. You may not like it but it does not change the facts that Kai did not and will not do as well as Z, despite a better script and better original voice actor talent, and I think that has a great deal to do with Funimation trying to force Japanese music into a dub for purist fans where it just does not fit.

I could be misunderstanding you, but are you saying Kai isn't doing/did as well as Z because of the Kenji Yamamoto score being Japanese? How are kids supposed to know where the music was composed without looking it up?