Am I the only one with thinks Battle of Gods isn't that good

[TheGmGoken]

And as for the whole "Super Saiyan God & Hakaishin wasn't his idea, therefore non-canon!", that means that the Kamehameha & Fusion are non-canon as well.

Let's not forget how many times the fans influence ideas for Akira(Vegeta not staying dead ect).

[TheGmGoken]

No, I personally didn't care for it, and was even disappointed. I live in Japan and speak fluent Japanese. I understood everything everyone said in the film. I lurk on the boards for action figure news, and to keep up on what is going on in the DBZ world. I even wen't to the special showing in Fukuoka, which had a marathon that streamed 5 of the original film prints after the premier.

It was a big let down. I have a lot of gripes, mainly about the quality of animation, and the extreme focus on gags and fan service. Vegeta gets embarrassed the whole movie and SSJ God is the biggest betrayal of everything I thought DBZ stood for that I would have screamed (or something) had I not realized this was actually something Toriyama designed.

Especially seeing the original films after the premier, which objectively look better unless you are really into the new age anime, laminated look and kawaii character design. The matte finish of the cels make everything smoother, if less detailed. But it just feels better. The fight coregraphy is also much better than Kami to Kami.

Just IMO.

Fan service? I didn't see any

or


In there. Was we watching the same movie or you have a differ definition?

[hleV]

[Super Saiyan] God’s appearing was set from the very start of production. There’s a line in the movie, too, but even I thought, “‘God’ is an exaggeration…”.

Your point is...?

Your point?

That even if it's called Super Saiyan God, it's doesn't actually mean that.

[Kamiccolo9]

That even if it's called Super Saiyan God, it's doesn't actually mean that.

Except that in the movie he does become a god. He possesses and can sense god ki. He is called a god. It may be an artificial god, but a god he is. What Toryama had in mind at the outset of the project doesn't really have any bearing on the final product.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SSJ God is just the Kami of Planet Vegeta

Planet Vegeta didn't have a Kami. Super Saiyan God is something entirely different.

Let's not forget how many times the fans influence ideas for Akira(Vegeta not staying dead ect).

Exactly. The story of Battle of Gods is written by Toriyama. The script from someone else. Battle of Gods is officially considered as a Toriyama work, and officially considered part of the story. That's enough for me to treat it as something equal to the manga, whether it's good or bad (it sounds good so far, but I'll have to see it first).

That even if it's called Super Saiyan God, it's doesn't actually mean that.

Well, even though it was something temporary, Goku's power could not be sense (like Beers' power), and Goku could sense Beers' power, so he was literally a god.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Your point? Toriyama also thought 50x was an exaggeration for SSJ yet he accepted it. There is also nothing wrong with SSJ God itself since it's just the Kami of planet Vegeta. You have a problem with this you have a problem with Kami.

SSG wasn't the Kami of Vegeta. If I'm correct Kami is a guidance or God of Earth. SSG was good people trying to kill the evil.

My point is that Kami is an artificial God just like SSJ God is.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

My point is that Kami is an artificial God just like SSJ God is.

Yeah, but they are two completely different things. A Kami gets some certain abilities (teleporting anywhere in his/her planet, to the After Life, restoring his/her planet's satellite(s), possessing bodies, etc), has the responsibility of his/her planet, and lasts until his/her death. Super Saiyan God is a transformation that changes the Saiyan's body, grands enormous power, and doesn't even last an hour.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kami is still an artificial God no matter how you slice it and from what I can gather people just despise the idea of an artificial Saiyan God even though Kami is the walking definition of an artificial God. It's a mute complaint.

[TheGmGoken]

Kami is still an artificial God no matter how you slice it and from what I can gather people just despise the idea of an artificial Saiyan God even though Kami is the walking definition of an artificial God. It's a mute complaint.

I would't call him artificial but more of a Job. Since this is dbz who knows how many definitions of gods is there. Let's remember how many types of Gods we have in Dbz. Ranging from a common God(kai's and MAYBE king Yemma) to Egypt styled Gods(God of destruction) to a God of a planet but which is really a job(Kami) to having God powers and fighting abilities(God of destruction again and Super Saiyan God)

SSG: The power of God and the ability to fight like an actual God
Kami: God of a planet. Like a job to look over the planet. Which comes with some perks.
Kaio-Sama and maybe King Yemma: A common god that looks over people and judge their souls. Also treat the other world people as if they were alive
Egypt Gods: Pretty much research their gods.

[Kamiccolo9]

Kami is still an artificial God no matter how you slice it and from what I can gather people just despise the idea of an artificial Saiyan God even though Kami is the walking definition of an artificial God. It's a mute complaint.

I would't call him artificial but more of a Job. Since this is dbz who knows how many definitions of gods is there. Let's remember how many types of Gods we have in Dbz. Ranging from a common God(kai's and MAYBE king Yemma) to Egypt styled Gods(God of destruction) to a God of a planet but which is really a job(Kami) to having God powers and fighting abilities(God of destruction again and Super Saiyan God)

SSG: The power of God and the ability to fight like an actual God
Kami: God of a planet. Like a job to look over the planet. Which comes with some perks.
Kaio-Sama and maybe King Yemma: A common god that looks over people and judge their souls. Also treat the other world people as if they were alive
Egypt Gods: Pretty much research their gods.

The Kaios' job is to oversee their respective quarter of the universe. The Kaioshin's do the same thing, and to create new planets. Beers' job is to maintain universal balance by destroying things while the Kaioshin's create.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kami is still an artificial God no matter how you slice it and from what I can gather people just despise the idea of an artificial Saiyan God even though Kami is the walking definition of an artificial God. It's a mute complaint.

I would't call him artificial but more of a Job. Since this is dbz who knows how many definitions of gods is there. Let's remember how many types of Gods we have in Dbz. Ranging from a common God(kai's and MAYBE king Yemma) to Egypt styled Gods(God of destruction) to a God of a planet but which is really a job(Kami) to having God powers and fighting abilities(God of destruction again and Super Saiyan God)

SSG: The power of God and the ability to fight like an actual God
Kami: God of a planet. Like a job to look over the planet. Which comes with some perks.
Kaio-Sama and maybe King Yemma: A common god that looks over people and judge their souls. Also treat the other world people as if they were alive
Egypt Gods: Pretty much research their gods.

Kami can sense divine energy, Goku can sense divine energy. Both are artificial Gods.

[TheGmGoken]

Kami is still an artificial God no matter how you slice it and from what I can gather people just despise the idea of an artificial Saiyan God even though Kami is the walking definition of an artificial God. It's a mute complaint.

I would't call him artificial but more of a Job. Since this is dbz who knows how many definitions of gods is there. Let's remember how many types of Gods we have in Dbz. Ranging from a common God(kai's and MAYBE king Yemma) to Egypt styled Gods(God of destruction) to a God of a planet but which is really a job(Kami) to having God powers and fighting abilities(God of destruction again and Super Saiyan God)

SSG: The power of God and the ability to fight like an actual God
Kami: God of a planet. Like a job to look over the planet. Which comes with some perks.
Kaio-Sama and maybe King Yemma: A common god that looks over people and judge their souls. Also treat the other world people as if they were alive
Egypt Gods: Pretty much research their gods.

The Kaio's job is to oversee their respective quarter of the universe. The Kaioshin's do the same thing, and to create new planets. Beers' job is to maintain universal balance by destroying things while the Kaioshin's create.

I never said they wasn't connected in a way. But each of them got a differ definition and description. Remember Akira made differ stories and background stories as he went along making some of the stories forgotten by fans. Kami is sorta more like a job then a God cause you have the apply for it. Kais are more or less born godly but they have to wait till 1 of the other gods die.

[Kamiccolo9]

Kami is still an artificial God no matter how you slice it and from what I can gather people just despise the idea of an artificial Saiyan God even though Kami is the walking definition of an artificial God. It's a mute complaint.

I would't call him artificial but more of a Job. Since this is dbz who knows how many definitions of gods is there. Let's remember how many types of Gods we have in Dbz. Ranging from a common God(kai's and MAYBE king Yemma) to Egypt styled Gods(God of destruction) to a God of a planet but which is really a job(Kami) to having God powers and fighting abilities(God of destruction again and Super Saiyan God)

SSG: The power of God and the ability to fight like an actual God
Kami: God of a planet. Like a job to look over the planet. Which comes with some perks.
Kaio-Sama and maybe King Yemma: A common god that looks over people and judge their souls. Also treat the other world people as if they were alive
Egypt Gods: Pretty much research their gods.

Kami can sense divine energy, Goku can sense divine energy. Both are artificial Gods.

This makes me wonder. Was Dende ever hinted at being able to sense either of the Kaioshins or Beers? Seeing as his circumstances of obtaining godhood were different than Kami's, I wonder if he is considered to be a true god. He is never shown to be able to travel back and forth to Enma's realm like Kami did, and he doesn't seem to have any pull with Enma to help someone retain their body.

I never said they wasn't connected in a way. But each of them got a differ definition and description. Remember Akira made differ stories and background stories as he went along making some of the stories forgotten by fans. Kami is sorta more like a job then a God cause you have the apply for it. Kais are more or less born godly but they have to wait till 1 of the other gods die.

I know. I was just elaborating on what you said about the Kaio's, and you left the Kaioshin's off your list. Although I don't think the Kaio's judge souls or anything. That seems to be exclusively Enma's thing.

[TheGmGoken]

Kami is still an artificial God no matter how you slice it and from what I can gather people just despise the idea of an artificial Saiyan God even though Kami is the walking definition of an artificial God. It's a mute complaint.

I would't call him artificial but more of a Job. Since this is dbz who knows how many definitions of gods is there. Let's remember how many types of Gods we have in Dbz. Ranging from a common God(kai's and MAYBE king Yemma) to Egypt styled Gods(God of destruction) to a God of a planet but which is really a job(Kami) to having God powers and fighting abilities(God of destruction again and Super Saiyan God)

SSG: The power of God and the ability to fight like an actual God
Kami: God of a planet. Like a job to look over the planet. Which comes with some perks.
Kaio-Sama and maybe King Yemma: A common god that looks over people and judge their souls. Also treat the other world people as if they were alive
Egypt Gods: Pretty much research their gods.[/quote]
Kami can sense divine energy, Goku can sense divine energy. Both are artificial Gods.[/quote]
This makes me wonder. Was Dende ever hinted at being able to sense either of the Kaioshins or Beers? Seeing as his circumstances of obtaining godhood were different than Kami's, I wonder if he is considered to be a true god. He is never shown to be able to travel back and forth to Enma's realm like Kami did, and he doesn't seem to have any pull with Enma to help someone retain their body.

I never said they wasn't connected in a way. But each of them got a differ definition and description. Remember Akira made differ stories and background stories as he went along making some of the stories forgotten by fans. Kami is sorta more like a job then a God cause you have the apply for it. Kais are more or less born godly but they have to wait till 1 of the other gods die.

I know. I was just elaborating on what you said about the Kaio's, and you left the Kaioshin's off your list. Although I don't think the Kaio's judge souls or anything. That seems to be exclusively Enma's thing.[/quote]

Dende is where I got the theory of "kami of Earth" is being more of a Job then the status of one. It's a job with perks

[Vision]

.

Vegeta gets embarrassed the whole movie and SSJ God is the biggest betrayal of everything I thought DBZ stood for that I would have screamed (or something) had I not realized this was actually something Toriyama designed.

Care to elaborate on this? I though that Vegeta had a pretty good showing throughout the movie, and how was SSJG a betrayal? I mean, I don't really like how it worked, but is it really that much worse than Gohan getting a powerup from sitting down while an old guy read comic books in front of him for a few hours?

Vegeta spends the whole movie as a clown, whose characterization is used for comedic relief at the expense of what makes him interesting- his blind arrogance and willful pride, despite the odds. He's had his moments in the movies/series where he despairs, but normally it's after he has gotten his ass kicked numerous times. In Kami to Kami, He accepts he's going to lose as soon as we see him, and most, if not all of his screen time is spent waiting on Bills, goofing off, and doing things that are totally out of character. I liked his quick rage scene at the party, but it was over entirely too fast.

The idea of SSJ God is cool but it's execution...My main grip is the style. SSJG is a slimmed down, cute-ified version of what could have potentially been "cool" so little kids in Japan have a plushie they can spend money on winning from a captcha machine. Because in Japan, cute is what sells. Instead of a potentially cool design or premise that fits with the rest of the series, the blood thirsty race of saiyans whose entire way of life was based on subjugating other planets for money, suddenly has a white knight to show they all aren't blood thirsty, and he sparkles too. It felt like a middle finger to everything that came before it. All the blood, the violent fighting, and most importantly the characters, they're getting edited to appeal to a new audience and losing what makes it special in the process.

On the plus side, the movie was really funny, at least in Japanese and Goku has a lot of awesome screen time. The ending was a bit different and I'm glad they found a different way to settle the plot.

[Chuquita]

How long does Vegeta's sitcom-y scenario of trying to keep Beerus a happy cat last? I was under the impression it didn't last long, but your text makes it seem like it lasts a while.

Regarding ssjg's looks, it's not at all what I expected either. I do agree on the marketability and current style trends in Japan in general though of it being so super-cute. Cute really sells. I know it grabbed my attention; I want to buy some ssjg Goku merch and probably will once some gets listed on cdjapan. I like cute things (he's even got pink hair. >u< ), though I can see how the style would not appeal to everyone. (Remember all that golden ssj4 art from back during the speculation period? I feel those wanting that type of ssjg will be disappointed.)

[Kamiccolo9]

.

Vegeta gets embarrassed the whole movie and SSJ God is the biggest betrayal of everything I thought DBZ stood for that I would have screamed (or something) had I not realized this was actually something Toriyama designed.

Care to elaborate on this? I though that Vegeta had a pretty good showing throughout the movie, and how was SSJG a betrayal? I mean, I don't really like how it worked, but is it really that much worse than Gohan getting a powerup from sitting down while an old guy read comic books in front of him for a few hours?

Vegeta spends the whole movie as a clown, whose characterization is used for comedic relief at the expense of what makes him interesting- his blind arrogance and willful pride, despite the odds. He's had his moments in the movies/series where he despairs, but normally it's after he has gotten his ass kicked numerous times. In Kami to Kami, He accepts he's going to lose as soon as we see him, and most, if not all of his screen time is spent waiting on Bills, goofing off, and doing things that are totally out of character. I liked his quick rage scene at the party, but it was over entirely too fast.

The idea of SSJ God is cool but it's execution...My main grip is the style. SSJG is a slimmed down, cute-ified version of what could have potentially been "cool" so little kids in Japan have a plushie they can spend money on winning from a captcha machine. Because in Japan, cute is what sells. Instead of a potentially cool design or premise that fits with the rest of the series, the blood thirsty race of saiyans whose entire way of life was based on subjugating other planets for money, suddenly has a white knight to show they all aren't blood thirsty, and he sparkles too. It felt like a middle finger to everything that came before it. All the blood, the violent fighting, and most importantly the characters, they're getting edited to appeal to a new audience and losing what makes it special in the process.

On the plus side, the movie was really funny, at least in Japanese and Goku has a lot of awesome screen time. The ending was a bit different and I'm glad they found a different way to settle the plot.

I'm still not getting how it's a betrayal of everything DBZ stands for.

[TheGmGoken]

How long does Vegeta's sitcom-y scenario of trying to keep Beerus a happy cat last? I was under the impression it didn't last long, but your text makes it seem like it lasts a while.

Regarding ssjg's looks, it's not at all what I expected either. I do agree on the marketability and current style trends in Japan in general though of it being so super-cute. Cute really sells. I know it grabbed my attention; I want to buy some ssjg Goku merch and probably will once some gets listed on cdjapan. I like cute things (he's even got pink hair. >u< ), though I can see how the style would not appeal to everyone. (Remember all that golden ssj4 art from back during the speculation period? I feel those wanting that type of ssjg will be disappointed.)

Pretty much a good 30 - 54 minutes of the movie was Vegeta sitcom with Birshu. I for one don't like the SSG design because to me it looks to fucked up and rushed. I understand Akira didn't want a wild design and wanted him to look clam similar to the villains of the stories but be really strong but it looks rushed and incomplete. I'm also not a fan of the colors. Due to the animation and brightness of some clips SSG hair sometimes looks purple-pink and in dark scenes he looks like a peach. I also don't like how you get the transformation and the fact you get to KEEP the power after it runs out.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

I have seen the movie albet a crappy cam recording... but didn't think the movie was that bad, I'll certainly know what my verdict is after watching it on bluray this fall.

How long does Vegeta's sitcom-y scenario of trying to keep Beerus a happy cat last? I was under the impression it didn't last long, but your text makes it seem like it lasts a while.

Regarding ssjg's looks, it's not at all what I expected either. I do agree on the marketability and current style trends in Japan in general though of it being so super-cute. Cute really sells. I know it grabbed my attention; I want to buy some ssjg Goku merch and probably will once some gets listed on cdjapan. I like cute things (he's even got pink hair. >u< ), though I can see how the style would not appeal to everyone. (Remember all that golden ssj4 art from back during the speculation period? I feel those wanting that type of ssjg will be disappointed.)

Pretty much a good 30 - 54 minutes of the movie was Vegeta sitcom with Birshu. I for one don't like the SSG design because to me it looks to fucked up and rushed. I understand Akira didn't want a wild design and wanted him to look clam similar to the villains of the stories but be really strong but it looks rushed and incomplete. I'm also not a fan of the colors. Due to the animation and brightness of some clips SSG hair sometimes looks purple-pink and in dark scenes he looks like a peach. I also don't like how you get the transformation and the fact you get to KEEP the power after it runs out.

May I ask what source you viewed the film? Cam-Recording? Actually went to the theatre, or other?

The point of SSJG was to be slim and lean so he would have power and speed, just look at USSJ they have power but are very slow compared to their opponents.

[TheGmGoken]

I have seen the movie albet a crappy cam recording... but didn't think the movie was that bad, I'll certainly know what my verdict is after watching it on bluray this fall.

How long does Vegeta's sitcom-y scenario of trying to keep Beerus a happy cat last? I was under the impression it didn't last long, but your text makes it seem like it lasts a while.

Regarding ssjg's looks, it's not at all what I expected either. I do agree on the marketability and current style trends in Japan in general though of it being so super-cute. Cute really sells. I know it grabbed my attention; I want to buy some ssjg Goku merch and probably will once some gets listed on cdjapan. I like cute things (he's even got pink hair. >u< ), though I can see how the style would not appeal to everyone. (Remember all that golden ssj4 art from back during the speculation period? I feel those wanting that type of ssjg will be disappointed.)

Pretty much a good 30 - 54 minutes of the movie was Vegeta sitcom with Birshu. I for one don't like the SSG design because to me it looks to fucked up and rushed. I understand Akira didn't want a wild design and wanted him to look clam similar to the villains of the stories but be really strong but it looks rushed and incomplete. I'm also not a fan of the colors. Due to the animation and brightness of some clips SSG hair sometimes looks purple-pink and in dark scenes he looks like a peach. I also don't like how you get the transformation and the fact you get to KEEP the power after it runs out.

May I ask what source you viewed the film? Cam-Recording? Actually went to the theatre, or other?

The point of SSJG was to be slim and lean so he would have power and speed, just look at USSJ they have power but are very slow compared to their opponents.

That wasn't the point -_-. The point was so that the form doesn't look super powerful and weak(similar to Kid Buu and Final form Freeza) but actually they're very Strong. If I remember there is a interview on this website that confirms that. No disrespect but did you read my original post at all? I explained it already =/.