Kamiccolo9 wrote:hleV, your entire argument rests on the belief that something cannot be created from nothing. Which is fine, but you have no way of backing it up.
I'm not stating anything as facts. I'm saying that unless it's magic (or 'abilities', as according to you they're different things), things don't come out of nowhere. Like I already told, that's the way I see logic. Feel free to explain how YOU see logic (I'm not saying that you have to use any logic for DB, though).
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Saying that "ki cannot be created from nothing because things cannot be created from nothing" is not an argument.
But that's the way I see logic. In real world, things cannot be created out of nothing. Why would one assume that in DB they can be? Again, when magic/abilities ain't involved.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:You can't use the premise of your argument to support itself; you have to bring in outside evidence. So, you say magic can create things from nothing. Yet we see abilities that are never noted or suggested as being magic that create something from nothing, but your reply is that they "have to be magic since they create things from nothing." Again, using your premise as the only support for your argument.
I say it's somewhat magical. In real world, there's no magic and there are no 'abilities' neither, so it all should look like sort of magic to us, but in-universally, they're not necessarily magic of the same type and name/description
. Sure, ki isn't exactly a real world thing neither, but we have enough information about ki to not classify it as an in-universe magic (as it's a part of every living being in DB and nothing points to it being able to create things out of nowhere).
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Ki is composed of unquantifiable elements. How do you put a limit on bravery? What is the maximum amount of True Mind you can have?
If ki can be measured, what's wrong with it having a limit? How does bravery increase through training, but not through emotions? See? I can give irrelevant questions as well.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Some more examples of creating something from nothing without magic.
Tenshinhan's technique where he grows extra arms. Stated to be possible due "to the abilities he was born with," never mentioning magic.
An ability. I'm fine with that.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Tenshinhan's multiform technique.
It's not like the additional bodies come from nowhere. They come from ki. Unless it's under a category of 'ability'?
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Saiyan's becoming Oozarus. The power may come from their hidden potential, but where does the extra mass and weight come from?
Transformation is an ability.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Same with Piccolo's giant form. Said to be an ability of his race, and only Dragon Clan Namekians are stated to be able to use magic.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Same with Freeza. When he transforms, he gets much larger. Where does this mass come from?
Transformation is an ability.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Nail's body disappeared when he fused with Piccolo. What happened to it? Piccolo didn't look any different. (Not quite what your arguing, but in real life, matter and energy are said to not be able to be created or destroyed.)
Huge things can burn down to just ashes. I don't see a problem with Nail's body just fading away/disintegrating into something that naked eye cannot see.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:And warrior Namekians are capable of fusion, despite only Dragon Clan Namekians being able to use magic, so Namekian fusion is biological, not magical.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Ginyu trading bodies. Ginyu becomes a frog, and we know that Ginyu retains his intelligence upon changing bodies, yet a frog's brain is much smaller and less developed than a human's.
No idea about Ginyu's brain in a frog's body. I don't think it can be explained. A plothole, perhaps. Don't think Toriyama thought this through.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Senzu beans being able to restore people. (I could be wrong on this one, since these may be considered magic. Not sure if they are directly referred to as such though.)
Oolong and Puar can shapeshift, which is capable of increasing their size and mass. Never stated or implied to be magical.
Super Saiyan 3 makes the characters' hair extend. Where does the extra hair come from?
Abilities/transformations. Nothing wrong with that.
Even if I didn't answer to anything, how does any of this help you prove your point about KK being anyhow magical? Or are we over with that?