Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kaboom]

I think it stemmed more from disregarding the scouter numbers and seeing what he ended up with after taking everything (EVERYTHING) in early DB as a power statement. An experimental sort of things. You do that, and characters would end up in the thousands before you even hit the DB-DBZ transition point.

[RandomGuy96]

Yeah I think he also said something like:

NOTE: All early Dragon Ball levels are going by a physical strength system, not a Ki/Battle Power system. Considering how little knowledge of Ki most characters back then had and how little they relied in it (Chibi Goku vs. Jackie Chun, 'nuff said) I believe it is an inaccurate measure of powers for this portion of the story. And, again, physical strength is NOT Ki. My numbers do not mean Roshi > Raditz. For comparisons' sakes, Mr. Satan's physical strength value would be 15.

But I really don't get what's up with him, honestly. He's gone from having ridiculously low lists (base Gotenks being one-shot material for 50% Freeza) to ridiculously high ones (base Goku being over 100 billion).

[Kamiccolo9]

Yeah I think he said something like:

NOTE: All early Dragon Ball levels are going by a physical strength system, not a Ki/Battle Power system. Considering how little knowledge of Ki most characters back then had and how little they relied in it (Chibi Goku vs. Jackie Chun, 'nuff said) I believe it is an inaccurate measure of powers for this portion of the story. And, again, physical strength is NOT Ki. My numbers do not mean Roshi > Raditz. For comparisons' sakes, Mr. Satan's physical strength value would be 15.

Also.

Oh, ok. So it's a different scale. That makes a lot more sense.

[TheMightyOzaru]

He seems to think Goku and everyone got a lot weaker after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai so he made everyone at the Budokai needlessly strong. It's complete bull.

He has Tao around 10,000? What did he have Goku and Piccolo at in the Budokai? Or can you give me a link to this list?

Cyborg Tao is 15,000 according to him. Sure here are his levels:
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t170 ... wers-list/

[RandomGuy96]

NOTE: I do not follow the scouter numbers for Early DB as I feel they are extremely inaccurate to the actual feats and statements in the first third of the series. The Z and GT portions of this list however, do follow the scouter numbers.

He specifically said that he wasn't going to use normal battle powers for that part of the list.

[TheMightyOzaru]

He is still wrong nonetheless .

[Kamiccolo9]

He seems to think Goku and everyone got a lot weaker after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai so he made everyone at the Budokai needlessly strong. It's complete bull.

He has Tao around 10,000? What did he have Goku and Piccolo at in the Budokai? Or can you give me a link to this list?

Cyborg Tao is 15,000 according to him. Sure here are his levels:
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t170 ... wers-list/

Huh. Well, that's interesting. It's a couple of years old though, does he have a newer one? Did the new movie change anything for his levels?

[RandomGuy96]

He did post one in this thread, right over... here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 00#p500071. It was before the movie, though.

I still have no idea how he thinks that the x10 multiplier works. Toriyama didn't even say that was the multiplier.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't know, I just looked him up several hours ago.

[Mjb1985]

Yea honestly those aren't too bad. Doing DB lists without using the scouter numbers are pretty fun.

I generally end up with powers in the thousand to ten thousand range by the 23rd Budokai as well.

I know of a lot of people who like to use the 10x boost because that's what AT bad in mind when he wrote it although it turned out to be 50x , it makes Gero's statements work better.

I don't see why it's such a bad thing. Just a different way.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It completely disregards official numbers, that's why it's so bad. It's even weirder when you consider the fact he goes off of some and ignores others. There isn't really a reason to make BP list if you are just gonna say; "well this isn't really a power level, this is something I made up entirely..." It's even worse when you look at how bloated his GT levels are, they are completely absurd. The 10x boost thing also doesn't make any sense. It's established in the Daizenshuu that Kaioken x20 is a 20x boost. What is the point of going SSJ when you have Kaioken x20, or even 10 for that matter? I'll tell you, there isn't any. 50x is what is case closed. I honestly don't see why people feel the need to change it.

[Kaboom]

There's nothing wrong with hypothetical "what would happen if I did THIS" power level lists. It only becomes a problem/annoyance if you get a big head about it and start ranting "the scouter numbers from the manga are garbage! Here's what they should REALLY be, because I said so!" or something.

[Mjb1985]

Yea it's just for fun man. We've had this discussion before MO and Kaboom told you the same thing last time man. COH did a list where he excluded scouter numbers. You act like it's a travesty. It might not be what you prefer but it doesn't mean someone can't do something like that.

There have been many senior members who have tried their hand at a DB specific list excluding scouter numbers and I got a lot of enjoyment out of them.

Some people prefer to go by character statements over specific numbers to give them a little more wiggle room. You should give one a shot I will check it out.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Here is what he says:

My list is pretty accurate I'd say... at least more accurate than it's ever been.

He has Goku at 3,800,000 in his fight with Freeza. He has Freeza at 160,000,000. He thinks SSJ2 is 4x SSJ. He most certainly is laughing in the face of official numbers.

[Mjb1985]

I wouldn't say going that route means you are laughing in the face of the official multipliers ( although knowing him that would suit him ) , but I constantly play around with different boosts without being a jerk about it. There can be a happy medium here.

A lot of times I like the official multipliers and sometimes I like to try different things out. It's not a crime man, it's just a fan list that's meant to be fun.

I've had a lot of fun going over COH's lists and I have been able to learn a lot about different characters I never even thought about before. The guy is pretty damn good at them, obviously I don't agree with some things but that doesn't take away from my enjoyment.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't particularly mind when people play around with multipliers, but when you say your list is fairly accurate while ignoring official numbers; that's when I draw the line.

[Mjb1985]

Yea there is no such thing as " accuracy " with that kind of stuff. Just opinion. But I really like to use my own set of numbers because of how detailed I am. AT didnt make a big deal about numbers at all and probably would laugh at us for doing so, but sometimes I like to make lists in mind of what if someone actually seriously did the number scale and used at the character statements and fights as a base instead of the scouter numbers. That's generally the field I play in.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yea there is no such thing as " accuracy " with that kind of stuff. Just opinion. But I really like to use my own set of numbers because of how detailed I am. AT didnt make a big deal about numbers at all and probably would laugh at us for doing so, but sometimes I like to make lists in mind of what if someone actually seriously did the number scale and used at the character statements and fights as a base instead of the scouter numbers. That's generally the field I play in.

There is accuracy involved in this though. It's when you get outside what is official stated; that's when it becomes a guessing game.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I'm not into accuracy. I just go by what I feel mainly with my own set of rules. It's more fun for me that way. But if you are looking for accuracy then the official numbers is the way to go.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yea I'm not into accuracy. I just go by what I feel mainly with my own set of rules. It's more fun for me that way. But if you are looking for accuracy then the official numbers is the way to go.

What's the point in this though? Accuracy makes making a BP list far more enjoyable because at the end of the day it's something you created that could be the case. If you go off the walls willy nilly it's jumbled mess of things that ultimately wasted your time.