Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Well we're pretty sure that if you're not Goku then you're weak as grass in DBGT. But if I re-call during the time Goku was in Hell or in space....Goten was kicking ass! This might sound a little bias since Goten is my favorite character but it seemed like not only did he get the most character development in GT(Well besides Piccolo...but having the most character development in GT isn't saying a-lot) but he was the only character besides Goku that actual had entertaining fights and was able to hold his own even through most of the people was weak. If I recall Goten gave up fighting but still equal to Trunks who just spent a year in space fighting some-what. Does this hints hidden power for Goten that had he kept training he would be a Goku "Jr" in terms of power?
Well, this is GT. Everything works on video game logic. So Goten is at least as strong as SS3 Gotenks.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
RandomGuy96 wrote:Well, this is GT. Everything works on video game logic. So Goten is at least as strong as SS3 Gotenks.
Doubtful. Goten never did anything towards the end of the series. Even in GT he still has the same dating mindset. You could claim that for Vegeta though.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I doubt he is that strong. He did kill Pui Pui with a single blast and he hold up against Bebi pretty well as a normal SSj level. Maybe is around SSJ Goku level during the Cell games. I doubt he is strong enough to take down SPC.
GT Goten isn't much stronger than his Z self, hell he might be weaker. He is a slacker after all.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
I think the biggest misconception with GT is 'everyone but Goku got weaker'.
Actually, though, in regard to the Saiyans at least, it's implied that everyone is exponentially stronger than they were at the end of Z - but Goku is just in a league of his own.
My evidence for this?
General Rilldo > Majin Buu. (Goku: "He's stronger than Buu")
Embryo Bebi > General Rilldo. (Goku: "He's stronger than anything we've come up against")
Goten (there or there abouts before having his body stolen) == Bebi
Therefore: GT Goten (at least) > Majin Buu
The only way to quantify GT characters is to follow GT logic, which is made problematic by numerous inconsistencies.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
Blade wrote:I think the biggest misconception with GT is 'everyone but Goku got weaker'.
Actually, though, in regard to the Saiyans at least, it's implied that everyone is exponentially stronger than they were at the end of Z - but Goku is just in a league of his own.
My evidence for this?
General Rilldo > Majin Buu. (Goku: "He's stronger than Buu")
Embryo Bebi > General Rilldo. (Goku: "He's stronger than anything we've come up against")
Goten (there or there abouts before having his body stolen) == Bebi
Therefore: GT Goten (at least) > Majin Buu
The only way to quantify GT characters is to follow GT logic, which is made problematic by numerous inconsistencies.
Then why would they expect Majuub doing any difference against anyone.
Well, he didn't of course.
But why did they expect him to account for anything.
Are they all idiots or what.
Blade wrote:I think the biggest misconception with GT is 'everyone but Goku got weaker'.
Actually, though, in regard to the Saiyans at least, it's implied that everyone is exponentially stronger than they were at the end of Z - but Goku is just in a league of his own.
My evidence for this?
General Rilldo > Majin Buu. (Goku: "He's stronger than Buu")
Embryo Bebi > General Rilldo. (Goku: "He's stronger than anything we've come up against")
Goten (there or there abouts before having his body stolen) == Bebi
Therefore: GT Goten (at least) > Majin Buu
The only way to quantify GT characters is to follow GT logic, which is made problematic by numerous inconsistencies.
Then why would they expect Majuub doing any difference against anyone.
Well, he didn't of course.
But why did they expect him to account for anything.
Are they all idiots or what.
Blade wrote:I think the biggest misconception with GT is 'everyone but Goku got weaker'.
Actually, though, in regard to the Saiyans at least, it's implied that everyone is exponentially stronger than they were at the end of Z - but Goku is just in a league of his own.
My evidence for this?
General Rilldo > Majin Buu. (Goku: "He's stronger than Buu")
Embryo Bebi > General Rilldo. (Goku: "He's stronger than anything we've come up against")
Goten (there or there abouts before having his body stolen) == Bebi
Therefore: GT Goten (at least) > Majin Buu
The only way to quantify GT characters is to follow GT logic, which is made problematic by numerous inconsistencies.
Then why would they expect Majuub doing any difference against anyone.
Well, he didn't of course.
But why did they expect him to account for anything.
Are they all idiots or what.
Your guess is as good as mine.
Majuub's strength is one of the more difficult to gauge. It's rather heavily implied that he's weaker than all of the Saiyans apart from Pan and Bra - but forming a logical basis to assess his actual power is problematic as the three contributing factors that encompass his power aren't fully known in GT terms.
Firstly we don't know exactly how powerful Uub was at his base level, but we can assume from basic observations that he was weaker than Adult Goku's base and weaker than Bebi Vegeta. Secondly we have Majin Buu, who we can probably assume is no stronger or weaker than he was at the end of Dragonball Z. Thirdly we have the fusion multiplier of the merger between Uub and Majin Buu - which is a complete unknown.
So basically we have this:
Uub < The Saiyans
Majuub > Uub
Majuub < The Saiyans
Therefore: The Saiyans > Majin Buu
Going back to the original topic, that means that Goten is at least stronger than the good Majin Buu, and as I posted previously, via the logic of the script he's at least comparable to Majin Buu at his strongest in Dragonball Z, as Goku states that Bebi, even in his embryonic form, is 'stronger than anything we have come up against'.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
Actually I think pre-fusion, post-training Oob is stronger than SS3 kid Goku (no tail) since Baby Vegeta speculates as much. But since Gohan can go from being oneshot by Base Goku as a Super Saiyan to fighting evenly with Rilld, I would say that Majoob is weaker than the Saiyans from the 17 arc onwards.
At the Baby Arc, Super Saiyan Goten is stronger than Majin Boo (all forms) and Rilld. Weaker than base Goku, though, who has powered up quite a lot since his adventure in space. By the time the 17 arc has rolled around, due to being stronger than Majoob he has become over 400x stronger!
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Several times stronger than his Boo arc self. While he didn't train for 10 years (after Boo arc), I believe that both Goten & Trunks restarted their training during the 5 years time-skip after the end of Z, since they said to Goku that they will train.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Several times stronger than his Boo arc self. While he didn't train for 10 years (after Boo arc), I believe that both Goten & Trunks restarted their training during the 5 years time-skip after the end of Z, since they said to Goku that they will train.
Though while that was anime exclusive, it totally works if you count GT as a continuation of the anime.
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Several times stronger than his Boo arc self. While he didn't train for 10 years (after Boo arc), I believe that both Goten & Trunks restarted their training during the 5 years time-skip after the end of Z, since they said to Goku that they will train.
Though while that was anime exclusive, it totally works if you count GT as a continuation of the anime.
Oh, so it was anime-only? I wasn't sure if it was in the manga, but since GT follows the anime, I didn't bother to check the manga since it didn't matter.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
He's weaker than Super Artificial Human No. 17 and Yi Xing Long. Those are literally the only real indications as to Goten's strength, considering Baby appeared to be holding out in their fight.
At best, Base Goten GT couldn't be equal to Base Goku (Boo Saga), he probably is about the same level of Kid Gohan (Cell Games). Goten is much stronger than Pui Pui, but apparently had trouble against Yakon. Goku didn't have the same problem. He wasn't way stronger than Yakon, because Gohan offer him a hand to fight in the darkness, but even then Goku still had the upper hand against the monster. Talking about Trunks, he wasn't far above Goten, they always had close power, but he should have improved a lot in Grand Tour Saga, so he could manage Yakon with one blast. I would put Trunks on the same league as Goku in Boo Saga.
Hugo Boss wrote:At best, Base Goten GT couldn't be equal to Base Goku (Boo Saga), he probably is about the same level of Kid Gohan (Cell Games). Goten is much stronger than Pui Pui, but apparently had trouble against Yakon. Goku didn't have the same problem. He wasn't way stronger than Yakon, because Gohan offer him a hand to fight in the darkness, but even then Goku still had the upper hand against the monster. Talking about Trunks, he wasn't far above Goten, they always had close power, but he should have improved a lot in Grand Tour Saga, so he could manage Yakon with one blast. I would put Trunks on the same league as Goku in Boo Saga.
GT logic also seems to put his strength as being higher than Majuub during the Super 17 and Shadow Dragon Sagas, which we can presume is higher than Majin Buu.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
or in space....Goten was kicking ass! This might sound a little bias since Goten is my favorite character but it seemed like not only did he get the most character development in GT(Well besides Piccolo...but having the most character development in GT isn't saying a-lot) but he was the only character besides Goku that actual had entertaining fights and was able to hold his own even through most of the people was weak. If I recall Goten gave up fighting but still equal to Trunks who just spent a year in space fighting some-what. Does this hints hidden power for Goten that had he kept training he would be a Goku "Jr" in terms of power?
