How powerful is Hirudegarn, really?

[TheMightyOzaru]

As we all know, SSJ3 Goku is a fly compared to Ultimate Gohan. However, Toei seems to portray otherwise. Is there any logical explanation, other than TIS(Toei induced stupidity), as to why Goku fairs so much better against Hirudegarn than Gohan? Hell even SSJ2 Vegeta fairs better.

[Kamiccolo9]

As we all know, SSJ3 Goku is a fly compared to Ultimate Gohan. However, Toei seems to portray otherwise. Is there any logical explanation, other than TIS(Toei induced stupidity), as to why Goku fairs so much better against Hirudegarn than Gohan? Hell even SSJ2 Vegeta fairs better.

If you go by the anime, then Goku is stronger than Gohan. It makes no sense, but there are 3 separate statements saying that Pure Buu is the strongest Buu, and thus stronger than Buuhan, who is stronger than Gohan, and Goku is stronger than Pure Buu. So the movie doesn't contradict the anime. The manga, yes, but the movie isn't based off the manga.

[Hellspawn28]

He owned Goku, Gohan and Gotenks from what I can remember. I think he is around Super Buu 2 power, but still weaker then Super Buu 3.

[TheMightyOzaru]

He owned Goku, Gohan and Gotenks from what I can remember. I think he is around Super Buu 2 power, but still weaker then Super Buu 3.

Goku actually takes a few hits unlike Gohan. Even SSJ2 Vegeta gets a few shots in.

[Darkprince410]

I'm still convinced though that Hildegarn's power dropped significantly after Trunks cut his tail off. We see and are told that he absorbs people's life forces and uses his tail to do so (opening it up to extend tentacles out that capture and draw people in). This is more than just, say, Freeza's tail, which isn't a vital part of his body by any means. For Hildegarn, this would essentially be like a part of his digestive system, so to have it cut off would be considerably damaging, to where I could see Ssj3 Goku being able to overcome him without Gohan actually being weaker than him.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Woah where is that stated or shown? Can I get a clip please?

[Darkprince410]

I can't find a clip, but here's an image of him actually absorbing people. The tip of his tail splits open, and the threads/tentacles come out, wrap around people, and pull them in. At the same time (at least in the dub, I forget if it's mentioned specifically in the original), Hoi or Tapion are talking, and they specifically mention him draining life force from other people.



It's before Hildegarn's upper half was completely released and it merged with the lower.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Wasn't the only reason SSJ3 Gokuu withheld a hit from Hirdugran was b/c he insulted him, making him weaker? It seemed implied that it was his weakness or something.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Wasn't the only reason SSJ3 Gokuu withheld a hit from Hirdugran was b/c he insulted him, making him weaker? It seemed implied that it was his weakness or something.

In the dub it was implied that weakened him but nothing is stated in the original.

[Hellspawn28]

I always felt the dragon fist attack was just a stupid plot device that was pull out of nowhere. The attack is still a powerful attack, I think it could kill someone like Buu assuming that he does not regen back to normal.

[Kamiccolo9]

Wasn't the only reason SSJ3 Gokuu withheld a hit from Hirdugran was b/c he insulted him, making him weaker? It seemed implied that it was his weakness or something.

In the dub it was implied that weakened him but nothing is stated in the original.

Are you sure you're not mixing this movie with stuff from the Janemba movie? I don't remember anything like that from movie 13.

[Darkprince410]

Wasn't the only reason SSJ3 Gokuu withheld a hit from Hirdugran was b/c he insulted him, making him weaker? It seemed implied that it was his weakness or something.

Yeah, in the original version, there's no actual mention of what his weakness actually was, just that he has one. That's why I think, partially, that it was his tail that was his weakness, because it seemed pivotal to his life functions.

[MDSTSSJ]

I'm still convinced though that Hildegarn's power dropped significantly after Trunks cut his tail off. We see and are told that he absorbs people's life forces and uses his tail to do so (opening it up to extend tentacles out that capture and draw people in). This is more than just, say, Freeza's tail, which isn't a vital part of his body by any means. For Hildegarn, this would essentially be like a part of his digestive system, so to have it cut off would be considerably damaging, to where I could see Ssj3 Goku being able to overcome him without Gohan actually being weaker than him.

Mmm where you hear that my friend? I never heard that before and that is not shown in the movie.

Maybe a little bit decrease in Hildegarn´s powers is accepted because he was hurt, nothing more.

Cell use his tail to absorb energy and if we rip his tail off, he lose that ability but no decrease his powers.

Freezer with his tail rip off, he´s not decrease his powers.

[Xeogran]

For Hildegarn, this would essentially be like a part of his digestive system, so to have it cut off would be considerably damaging, to where I could see Ssj3 Goku being able to overcome him without Gohan actually being weaker than him.

It was stupid in the first place for Kid Trunks actually managing to cut Hirudegarn's tail. Plot forced the end for M13, just like it did for M08. Sad that movies back then couldn't end with villains actually showing their superiority.

[Zephyr]

I always assumed it was because the Dragon Fist's power does not depend on Goku's power.

[MDSTSSJ]

Wasn't the only reason SSJ3 Gokuu withheld a hit from Hirdugran was b/c he insulted him, making him weaker? It seemed implied that it was his weakness or something.

Hildegarn's weakness is when it shows open or unprotected when he attacks. That´s why Kakarotto wait the right moment to do the Dragon Fist attack. Also Gohan realizes about the Hildegarn´s weakness.

[Darkprince410]

I'm still convinced though that Hildegarn's power dropped significantly after Trunks cut his tail off. We see and are told that he absorbs people's life forces and uses his tail to do so (opening it up to extend tentacles out that capture and draw people in). This is more than just, say, Freeza's tail, which isn't a vital part of his body by any means. For Hildegarn, this would essentially be like a part of his digestive system, so to have it cut off would be considerably damaging, to where I could see Ssj3 Goku being able to overcome him without Gohan actually being weaker than him.

Mmm where you hear that my friend? I never heard that before and that is not shown in the movie.

Maybe a little bit decrease in Hildegarn´s powers is accepted because he was hurt, nothing more.

Cell use his tail to absorb energy and if we rip his tail off, he lose that ability but no decrease his powers.

Freezer with his tail rip off, he´s not decrease his powers.

Well, Cell could regenerate his tail and Freeza's tail wasn't an essential part of his being. We don't see any indicator that Hildegarn is capable of regenerating though, so losing his tail would be a more detrimental blow to his physiology. Him losing his tail when he did would perfectly explain how Ssj3 Goku was able to handle something that Gohan wasn't.

[MDSTSSJ]

I'm still convinced though that Hildegarn's power dropped significantly after Trunks cut his tail off. We see and are told that he absorbs people's life forces and uses his tail to do so (opening it up to extend tentacles out that capture and draw people in). This is more than just, say, Freeza's tail, which isn't a vital part of his body by any means. For Hildegarn, this would essentially be like a part of his digestive system, so to have it cut off would be considerably damaging, to where I could see Ssj3 Goku being able to overcome him without Gohan actually being weaker than him.

Mmm where you hear that my friend? I never heard that before and that is not shown in the movie.

Maybe a little bit decrease in Hildegarn´s powers is accepted because he was hurt, nothing more.

Cell use his tail to absorb energy and if we rip his tail off, he lose that ability but no decrease his powers.

Freezer with his tail rip off, he´s not decrease his powers.

Well, Cell could regenerate his tail and Freeza's tail wasn't an essential part of his being. We don't see any indicator that Hildegarn is capable of regenerating though, so losing his tail would be a more detrimental blow to his physiology. Him losing his tail when he did would perfectly explain how Ssj3 Goku was able to handle something that Gohan wasn't.

Mmm fair enough but, that´s not the Hildegarn weakness shown in the movie. I explained Hildegarn´s weakness above and is stated in the movie. Or, he has 2 weaknesses.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Gohan & Gotenks were caught off-guard, while Goku was fully ready to take the hits. Plus, Goku had a new & extremely powerful technique.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan & Gotenks were caught off-guard, while Goku was fully ready to take the hits. Plus, Goku had a new & extremely powerful technique.

Even so, there is an occasion, or 2, where Hirudegarn has Gohan in a hold. If Gohan is stronger than Hirudegarn a simple explosive wave would end the hold no problem. SSJ3 Gotenks also got a direct hit in and didn't do squat.