Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

I have 1 problem with this list. Why is SSJG3 Trunks stronger than FPSSJ Goku? Cell was toying with Trunks the whole time and revealed that had more power against FPSSJ Goku.

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P13.1-2
Context: After sensing half of Full Power Super Saiyan Goku’s max power from a distance.
Vegeta (to self): “Damn you, Kakarot… It’s always like this… He’s always a step ahead of me…! It drives me crazy…Just when I think I’ve caught up, he widens the lead again…”

Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204), P6.3-4
Context: after Goku unveils his full power
Vegeta: “So this is his true power?...”
Trunks: “Amazing…Goku really is absolutely amazing…”

Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204), P7.1-3
Context: everyone gawking at Goku’s full power
Kuririn: “This really is an incredible ki…! It figures he’d outstrip everyone.”
Gohan: “…Why is everyone so surprised…I think he really is incredible, but…”

First, Half of Goku's power already exceeds Vegeta's SSJG2 self. Second, Krillin makes it clear that Goku is the strongest Ki he has felt. Third even if you take Krillin seriously there, there is still math involved. If Goku at half power exceeds Vegeta, his full power would be more than twice as strong as SSJG2 Vegeta. So according to your levels FPSSJ Goku's power level should be greater than 1,170,000,000.

Yeah, that was the really hard part.
For me, the SSJ Grade III form's power level is kinda misleading. It's using a tremendous amount of power, but it's focusing all of it into the muscles. So while the actual ki output would be a lot higher, he's only using it to increase physical strength. So, while they sense this massive power, Trunks isn't really capable of doing all that much. If you look in the manga, Trunks never uses a ki attack in this form, leading me to believe that he's pumped so much ki into physical strength that his actual ki attacks have decreased in power, just like his speed. So, while he's channeling enough ki to be "stronger" than Goku, he can't actually use any of it.
It's a lot of speculation, but I like the idea.
As for Vegeta, I have him freaking out because he's getting a glimpse of Goku's full power while he's powering up, just like Krillin knew how strong Trunks was and how he saw Cell's full power when he kicked him.
As I said earlier, it's really hard to work these numbers in, but it is possible. You have to stretch a lot, and I've already ended up past 10,000,000, like I had planned, but that's the frame I was given to work with, so I'm doing what I can

[Draken]

But what about Vegeta and Goku being so close? I don't think you can make them so close just to make a list work when a lot of evidence points towards the contrary. There's Goku's half power outstripping anything they'd seen thus far. Vegeta does his second turn in the RoSaT and thinks he's ahead of 50% Goku. Then Goku doubles his power and shocks everyone bar Gohan. Goku and Gohan should be at least 1.9x stronger than everybody, but you have an incredibly small gap.

[TheMightyOzaru]

But there is still the problem of Goku being stronger than Vegeta at only half of his power. Even if we assume it's more than only SSJ Vegeta that still leaves him with a power level greater than 900,000,000.

[Kamiccolo9]

I just edited that in to my last post while you all were typing. It's kinda a lame excuse, but It's the best I can come up with, given the conditions I've put on this list.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Again... half of Goku's power still exceeds SSJG2 Vegeta. It's stated by Vegeta himself. Vegeta wouldn't claim Kakarot is stronger unless he was. That said that would mean FPSSJ Goku is more than twice as strong as SSJG2 Vegeta bare minimum. This is why I find it hard to believe that the base Saiyans are stuck between 10 and 15 million.

[Draken]

I just edited that in to my last post while you all were typing. It's kinda a lame excuse, but It's the best I can come up with, given the conditions I've put on this list.

That means you have to shrink down the levels even more. Which is exactly why I said earlier in another thread (I think LOL) that a 3-10 (or even 15 now) million gap is way too small to work with.

[Mjb1985]

Yea 50% Goku > Grade 3 Trunks might put the kibosh on the 10-15 million range. Why not try out 100 million to be safer.

[Draken]

Yea 50% Goku > Grade 3 Trunks might put the kibosh on the 10-15 million range. Why not try out 100 million to be safer.

Yea I've personally settled on a flat 100 million as well.

[Kamiccolo9]

I just edited that in to my last post while you all were typing. It's kinda a lame excuse, but It's the best I can come up with, given the conditions I've put on this list.

That means you have to shrink down the levels even more. Which is exactly why I said earlier in another thread (I think LOL) that a 3-10 (or even 15 now) million gap is way too small to work with.

Again... half of Goku's power still exceeds SSJG2 Vegeta. It's stated by Vegeta himself. Vegeta wouldn't claim Kakarot is stronger unless he was. That said that would mean FPSSJ Goku is more than twice as strong as SSJG2 Vegeta bare minimum. This is why I find it hard to believe that the base Saiyans are stuck between 10 and 15 million.

Yeah, the gap is looking too small. And that one quote is really the only thing that makes it unworkable. There's a similar situation with the Daizenshuu levels for Piccolo Daimao using only half his strength against Goku, and still only being 260 when he gets younger. I'm having the same problem here.

Oh well, it was a good effort. Incidentally, I would place to Saiyans in the 60 million range for my own power level list, in case any of you were interested. As I said before, this was just an experiment I was interested in trying out.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah, 10 and 15 million is hard to work with. I have Goku and Gohan between 50 and 60 million during the Cell games. I have Goku at 80,000,000 during the Buu saga, and I have Goku at 96,000,000 during BoG.

[RandomGuy96]

I also place the base saiyans at their strongest at 100,000,000... well, that's where I place Vegeta's limit. Goku's a teensy bit higher, at 102,500,000. Therefore, even if Vegeta gets SS3, he'll still be 40,000,000,000 to Goku's 41,000,000,000 because lol.

[Kamiccolo9]

I also place the base saiyans at their strongest at 100,000,000... well, that's where I place Vegeta's limit. Goku's a teensy bit higher, at 102,500,000. Therefore, even if Vegeta gets SS3, he'll still be 40,000,000,000 to Goku's 41,000,000,000 because lol.

Really? I got the impression from the Majin Vegeta/ Goku fight that, if anything, Vegeta was the one who was slightly stronger

[TheMightyOzaru]

There is no such thing as an end limit in Dragon Ball. They continue to grow. Implying otherwise goes against the very nature of Dragon Ball itself which is constantly break limits.

[RandomGuy96]

Goku just didn't want to hurt his feelings. That's why he didn't just go SS3 and bitch slap Vegeta to death . Or Vegeta just might be more skilled and/or brutal in hand to hand, I don't know...

In all seriousness, I only put that tiny little not-even-really-there gap to get my preferred gap for SS3 Goku vs Kid Buu while still keeping my preferred gap for Fat Buu vs Majin Vegeta. And also to have Vegeta eternally stuck at second banana, no matter what.

[Mjb1985]

100 million sounds perfect. I don't even know if I can even make they work but I will try. I've made it work before though so maybe I can do it again.

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku just didn't want to hurt his feelings. That's why he didn't just go SS3 and bitch slap Vegeta to death . Or Vegeta just might be more skilled and/or brutal in hand to hand, I don't know...

In all seriousness, I only put that tiny little not-even-really-there gap to get my preferred gap for SS3 Goku vs Kid Buu. And also to have Vegeta eternally stuck at second banana, no matter.

Well, yeah, I wasn't counting SSJ3
But I get it. Poor Vegeta.

[Mjb1985]

I see them as direct equals. One of the very few times I do throughout the whole story.

[RandomGuy96]

Quick question: didn't the Daizenshuu state that Goku somehow donated his ki to Gohan during the final Kamehameha struggle with Cell?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Quick question: didn't the Daizenshuu state that Goku somehow donated his ki to Gohan during the final Kamehameha struggle with Cell?

I don't think so. Wouldn't surprise if that was the case though.

[RandomGuy96]

Quick question: didn't the Daizenshuu state that Goku somehow donated his ki to Gohan during the final Kamehameha struggle with Cell?

I don't think so. Wouldn't surprise if that was the case though.

I'm just wondering because that might make the SS2 multiplier easier to swallow for some people without needing to bring in a rage boost.