Why do you dislike BoG?

[Chuquita]

I think the original script's ssjg was more biblical than the finalized version to be honest; what with the original one essentially using 'the power of good' to chase out those possessed by evil. (Also snake!Beerus.) Finalized ssjg doesn't really do any of that, he even loses the battle.

I do have mixed feelings on Toriyama's recent statement in the Full Color comics interview about that he purposely made sure to take the tension out of the movie. I mean, at least now I know how on-purpose it was, but I would've liked at least some dramatic tension like Strong World and OPZ had. T^T
I do like gags, don't get me wrong, but the trailers had built up this "big danger" feel and...I dunno..

It's hard for me to be hard on something I haven't actually seen yet though; also cute magenta!Goku makes me way more forgiving of some other stuff. >_>
I don't know if I would necessarily want to lose Pretty Warrior Gokyun magenta ssjg Goku in exchange for having more tension in the movie.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Hard for me to say that I hate the movie. I think I more resent that so many people dig it, but those are the same people who bash GT. The movie is guilty of all the things GT did.

People often talk about GT = Goku time. This movie turns him into Jesus.

The new SSJ form looks nothing like any of the other designs (and the skinniness should looks silly to me). People criticize SSJ4 almost seeming to be mystical. Well I can't think of anything more mystical than SSJG

Needing 6 saiya power or whatever to turn Goku into a deity. I swear to you, the same thing pretty much happens in Toyble's comic. If anyone else had wrote that in, it'd be dismissed as fanwank.

And various other things.

So yea, I can't say that I dislike it. It seems like a very entertaining movie. I just resent the fact that people are holding it in such high regard because of Toriyama's involvement.

This movie is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from Goku time though. I honestly can't fathom how people think it's Goku time. Yeah Goku gets a temporary, as far as I'm concerned at this point, God power up and still loses. Does that sound like Goku time? No. Goku isn't even in the majority of the movie. Vegeta is arguably the bigger star when you consider screen time. SSJ God was designed by Toriyama himself, thank you. This is also SSJ God, it's supposed to diverge from the usual SSJ look, besides what else could he do? Color change is pretty much the only viable option because Goku with hair coming down to his feet would just be ridiculous. Something along the lines of a gold SSJ4 would make little sense since the Oozaru is seen as inferior and isn't involved in this at all. SSJ God is also skinny because Toriyama likes the plain looking Gods. SSJ4 itself doesn't deserve the criticism though, I agree with that. It's very well designed and had an original, cool idea behind it. How SSJ God was formed is a bit on the questionable side but then a ritual to form a temporary, artificial God makes some degree of sense. How else would SSJ God be formed? Goku having the potential to become one just screams bull shit so I'm glad they didn't make a God form natural to a mortal Saiyan.

[TheGmGoken]

You should already know why I hate it

[Necrosaber]

Hard for me to say that I hate the movie. I think I more resent that so many people dig it, but those are the same people who bash GT. The movie is guilty of all the things GT did.

People often talk about GT = Goku time. This movie turns him into Jesus.

The new SSJ form looks nothing like any of the other designs (and the skinniness should looks silly to me). People criticize SSJ4 almost seeming to be mystical. Well I can't think of anything more mystical than SSJG

Needing 6 saiya power or whatever to turn Goku into a deity. I swear to you, the same thing pretty much happens in Toyble's comic. If anyone else had wrote that in, it'd be dismissed as fanwank.

And various other things.

So yea, I can't say that I dislike it. It seems like a very entertaining movie. I just resent the fact that people are holding it in such high regard because of Toriyama's involvement.

SSJ God was designed by Toriyama himself, thank you.

What difference does that make? It still looks silly.

[JulieYBM]

Gokuu isn't in half the movie and loses to the new character. Twice. Hardly 'Gokuu Time'.

[TheGmGoken]

Gokuu isn't in half the movie and loses to the new character. Twice. Hardly 'Gokuu Time'.

It's still the same damn formula through. Some how Goku get taken out. He sits on sideline. He returns with or about to get new power. In this case SSG. He saves the Earth. Big Whoop. Wow this time he lost. He still fought Beers till Beers could't destroy nothing more then a rock. That makes Yamcha > Beers at that moment. This isn't first time Goku lost. He took(asked) people energy to beat Kid Buu and lost to Kid buu in the same way Beers could't destroy Earth. Both ran out of energy. I don't like how people saying "Goku loses!" is making this movie better or differ from the other saga. He still manages to save Earth by the same method as he been doing since Saiyan Saga. It's not Goku time but it's showing Goku's main character disease. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=23465

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Judging from past responses about that scene between Herms and kei17 (I think it was them), it seems Birus isn't actually out of energy. The point of Whis asking why he only destroyed such a small part of Earth is that he knows Birus still has power left (hence the 70% line later on); he's just pretending to be out of stamina because he no longer desires to blow the planet up. Birus isn't a totally evil jackass though, destroying things is just his job. Goku gave him a better fight than he'd had in a long time and then showed humility by admitting defeat, so the Hakaishin spared the planet. The mere mortals aren't aware of this though since they can't sense his godly ki.

Had he still wanted to blow it up though, I doubt anyone would have been able to stop him.

[JulieYBM]

Judging from past responses about that scene between Herms and kei17 (I think it was them), it seems Birus isn't actually out of energy. The point of Whis asking why he only destroyed such a small part of Earth is that he knows Birus still has power left (hence the 70% line later on); he's just pretending to be out of stamina because he no longer desires to blow the planet up. Birus isn't a totally evil jackass though, destroying things is just his job. Goku gave him a better fight than he'd had in a long time and then showed humility by admitting defeat, so the Hakaishin spared the planet. The mere mortals aren't aware of this though since they can't sense his godly ki.

Had he still wanted to blow it up though, I doubt anyone would have been able to stop him.

Oddly, that level of subtext hadn't hit me before, yet it makes perfect sense. Damn, I love Beers.

[goku the krump dancer]

I don't get it, so the main character of a series isn't allowed to be the star of the show?

[Rocketman]

How else would SSJ God be formed?

A god could resign his throne and-



Well, how about a technique from a g-



It could be a legend feared by all-



Maybe a divine weapon like the Blade of Olym-



A gift from the King of the G-



Uh...secret magical godly items that-



Alright, I give. Take it from here, Yugi.



Uh, you don't have enough tributes there.

"Videl counts as a Saiyan 'cause she's pregnant."

:problem:

[Kaboom]

Normally I'd disagree with such bitchin' and moanin' about Super Saiyan God, but that post gets an "A++" regardless for using that Bo-Bobo panel.

It'd be A+++ if not for the Comic Sans.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Almost none of those would have worked for me. A Sword = stupid. Dende stepping down wouldn't give Goku some massive power up. Who's gonna teach Goku a new, more powerful God technique? Goku having the potential to become a God of his own free will = stupid. God items work. A gift from the Gods isn't really gonna work when there is no God of a higher tier than Whis and Beers. I realize your poking fun at past events but none of these would make Goku superior to Beers and Whis. He needed a new way to get stronger.

[RandomGuy96]

Judging from past responses about that scene between Herms and kei17 (I think it was them), it seems Birus isn't actually out of energy. The point of Whis asking why he only destroyed such a small part of Earth is that he knows Birus still has power left (hence the 70% line later on); he's just pretending to be out of stamina because he no longer desires to blow the planet up. Birus isn't a totally evil jackass though, destroying things is just his job. Goku gave him a better fight than he'd had in a long time and then showed humility by admitting defeat, so the Hakaishin spared the planet. The mere mortals aren't aware of this though since they can't sense his godly ki.

Had he still wanted to blow it up though, I doubt anyone would have been able to stop him.

So Beers/Bills/Birusu/Vodka/Bobby/Idon'tevenfuckingknow makes Goku his bitch and decides not to kill him later because Goku amused him? I guess that's a little better. But I still have no idea why Goku HAD to be the god, or why he was treated as a big deal at the beginning of the movie.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Maybe SSJ God was incomplete because it used a fetus .

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Dende stepping down wouldn't give Goku some massive power up.

Not exactly Dende stepping down, but I'd have much preferred the Goku becoming a literal god option. As stated earlier, 6 Saiyans doing a ritual to create an artificial one comes off seeming like very forced fanwanking IMO.

I say just have Kaioshin bend the rules and temporarily give Goku one of the empty seats during the fight with Birus or something. Let that new position change his ki from the standard type to the godly type and that can trigger the ability to attain Super Saiyan God and multiply his power up to whatever level 70% of Birus' is. I'm doing something very similar for my own fan rewrite project of the franchise.

[MDSTSSJ]

Judging from past responses about that scene between Herms and kei17 (I think it was them), it seems Birus isn't actually out of energy. The point of Whis asking why he only destroyed such a small part of Earth is that he knows Birus still has power left (hence the 70% line later on); he's just pretending to be out of stamina because he no longer desires to blow the planet up. Birus isn't a totally evil jackass though, destroying things is just his job. Goku gave him a better fight than he'd had in a long time and then showed humility by admitting defeat, so the Hakaishin spared the planet. The mere mortals aren't aware of this though since they can't sense his godly ki.

Had he still wanted to blow it up though, I doubt anyone would have been able to stop him.

So Beers/Bills/Birusu/Vodka/Bobby/Idon'tevenfuckingknow makes Goku his bitch and decides not to kill him later because Goku amused him? I guess that's a little better. But I still have no idea why Goku HAD to be the god, or why he was treated as a big deal at the beginning of the movie.

Because BoG Goku is a BIG deal in front of the others Z fighters, an a BIG deal in front of Birusu and Whis when he transformed into SSJG believed or not, like it or not ( shown in the synopsis ). Kakarotto has lost many battles in all DB but he always be a BIG deal.

[RandomGuy96]

Judging from past responses about that scene between Herms and kei17 (I think it was them), it seems Birus isn't actually out of energy. The point of Whis asking why he only destroyed such a small part of Earth is that he knows Birus still has power left (hence the 70% line later on); he's just pretending to be out of stamina because he no longer desires to blow the planet up. Birus isn't a totally evil jackass though, destroying things is just his job. Goku gave him a better fight than he'd had in a long time and then showed humility by admitting defeat, so the Hakaishin spared the planet. The mere mortals aren't aware of this though since they can't sense his godly ki.

Had he still wanted to blow it up though, I doubt anyone would have been able to stop him.

So Beers/Bills/Birusu/Vodka/Bobby/Idon'tevenfuckingknow makes Goku his bitch and decides not to kill him later because Goku amused him? I guess that's a little better. But I still have no idea why Goku HAD to be the god, or why he was treated as a big deal at the beginning of the movie.

Because BoG Goku is a BIG deal in front of the others Z fighters, an a BIG deal in front of Birusu and Whis when he transformed into SSJG believed or not, like it or not ( shown in the synopsis ). Kakarotto has lost many battles in all DB but he always be a BIG deal.

The thing is, by the end of the Buu Saga both Gohan and Gotenks make him look like a bug. Either are capable of killing him in one blow, and he was piss scared of the monster both of them were able to own. Yet the new movies always forget that and/or contrive a way for it not to matter.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Dende stepping down wouldn't give Goku some massive power up.

Not exactly Dende stepping down, but I'd have much preferred the Goku becoming a literal god option. As stated earlier, 6 Saiyans doing a ritual to create an artificial one comes off seeming like very forced fanwanking IMO.

I say just have Kaioshin bend the rules and temporarily give Goku one of the empty seats during the fight with Birus or something. Let that new position change his ki from the standard type to the godly type and that can trigger the ability to attain Super Saiyan God and multiply his power up to whatever level 70% of Birus' is. I'm doing something very similar for my own fan rewrite project of the franchise.

And that's better because? Dende is also an artificial God so I don't see why 6 Saiyans can't form a temporary one.

[RandomGuy96]

I always found it utter shit that the saiyans got so much stronger than the gods (or, at least, the ones we saw) in the first place, so having one effortlessly pwn them and then keep effortlessly pwning them after the big plot power-up because "You're a random alien and he's a god you dumbass" is refreshing.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

And that's better because? Dende is also an artificial God so I don't see why 6 Saiyans can't form a temporary one.

First off, as far as we know, all gods in Dragon Ball may be "artificial". It's not like anything has said that any person or race was born with godly ki, we just know that they currently have it due, at the very least, to their positions.

Anyway, because the idea that this violent, warrior race in the universe can magically grant a member the ki of a god by gathering 6 pure hearted members to pool their energy and infuse their "light" into a single individual by holding hands is extremely contrived and unnecessarily complicated. Why does the Saiyan race alone, of all the races out there, have this odd ability via a ritual? Why six Saiyans, other than the Pan reveal? Why pure of heart, other than the fact that our heroes aren't evil? Nothing behind the idea feels natural at all, and that's a major problem IMO.

I'd still hold on to my opinion about the ritual, but I'll at least admit that it worked a lot better with the original draft of the film (Saiyans being turned evil, remaining pure members gathering together to create a savior). It would still be a contrived ability, but at least it would serve its purpose with the proper theme and tension.