Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'd still incorporate a rage boost regardless. The Daizenshuu 2 says he wasn't as powerful because he lacked anger and I see no reason for him to get an anger boost there and only there when he was really pissed off when he transformed.
v Sorry for the double post but it clearly needed to be it's own post. GT POWER LEVELS HAVE BEEN ADDED!

[TheMightyOzaru]

Pg 122.

[dbzfan7]

SSJ4 Goku(Friends Energy): 152,0000,000,000,000

You should to fix that.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ4 Goku(Friends Energy): 152,0000,000,000,000

You should to fix that.

Thanks!

[RandomGuy96]

Before I actually get to analyzing these power levels, I'd just like to point out a few of what I think are errors:

You have Lord Slug Goku at 90,000, yet have him at 10,000,000 when using kaio-ken x100.

The aformentioned SS4 Goku error.

You have Goku killing Broly in one hit even though by your list they're equals.

On another note, you're also seemingly very arbitrarily selective about what Daizenshuu and Shonen Jump information you use.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I use what makes most sense. SSJ4 error? A fatigued Goku takes a fatigued Piccolo's energy so he ended up at 100,000 when he used Kaioken x100 which is at 10,000,000.

[RandomGuy96]

The one someone pointed out earlier. In the post right above mine?

[TheMightyOzaru]

The one someone pointed out earlier. In the post right above mine?

Ohhhhh ok .

[RandomGuy96]

So I was surfing the web about power levels when something caught my eye. I'm sure you are all aware of the infamous fake V-Jump scan from a while back. Well I was on a site where someone was debunking it, and quoted Daizex (I think that's what it's called?). One quote intrigued me. It said this:

Some other odd things I noticed: The picture of Oozaru Goku is labeled as him from the 22nd TB, rather than the 21st. Goku’s listed as 910 versus Raditz, and Piccolo as 890. 910 is the Weekly Jump BP for Goku at the 23rd TB, while I think 890 isn’t used for anything outside of this chart. Gohan is listed as 2,500 against Raditz, while in the manga and daizenshuu he’s 1,307.

Did Weekly Jump really list Goku at 910? If they did, a lot of things would make more sense.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Not sure. I'm not a V-Jump buff.

[RandomGuy96]

This guy's wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ilovefoxes/Powerlevel) also says that Goku was at 910 in a Weekly Jump article. He adds:

There is a small inconsistency beetween the Daizenshuu and Weekly Jump edition. The Daizenshuu list Goku against Raditz as 416, a value taken from Raditz scouter in the manga, however the Weekly Jump list Goku during the 23rd Tournament as 910. The Weekly Jump suggests that Goku (and perhaps Piccolo) was suppressing his power back against Raditz by a large difference (the same way Krillin, Piccolo and Gohan did when they first meet the saiyans), and the Daizenshuu was not supposed to list supressed power levels. The manga also suggests that 416 and 408 are not the real amount of Goku and Piccolo respectively power levels, as both Vegeta and Nappa dispose of their scouters while reading the false amount of Krillin, Piccolo and Gohan, commenting that Raditz's trust in the scouters lead to his defeat.

Like I said, if Goku and Piccolo really are both around 900 during Raditz's arrival, then a lot of other things make more sense...

Tien can be above King Piccolo.

If you ignore the pre-Dragon Ball numbers from V-Jump, you can put together a pretty decent Dragon Ball PL list that incorporates most of the statements.

The Kamehameha amplification (and the other amplification that comes after it) doesn't have to be out of control, letting you explain certain statements and feats more easily, especially in the Cell Saga, where Imperfect Cell basically has to be many times stronger than Piccolo right now.

A lot of the "many times stronger than" statements can work.

Piccolo tanking Goku's Kamehameha at the tournament can work.

Goku and Piccolo not instantly dying when hit by Raditz can work.

Raditz's 1,500 makes more sense than the common fan number of 1,260.

Et cetera.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I can see why that would be the case. Goku's Kamehameha registers at 924 against Raditz so it might be registering the Kamehameha he used against Piccolo. Probably not the case but I can totally see Budokai Goku at 910 when uses his Kamehameha.

[RandomGuy96]

I was under the impression that the Weekly Jump article was talking about his actual power, not the Kamehameha. If it was, you'd think that, 1, one of the many people who has mentioned seeing this number would specify that the image shows Goku firing a Kamehameha, and 2, Piccolo couldn't have tanked it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well Goku isn't that much weaker than the Goku that fought Raditz so his BP for the Kamehameha would be in the high 800s to low 900s.

[RandomGuy96]

...yeah, and?

[TheMightyOzaru]

...yeah, and?

Just saying Piccolo could tank it cuz he did.

[RandomGuy96]

If his power level was around 900, then yeah. But not if he was only at 400.

I'm 99% sure that the Weekly Jump article was referring to his actual power, or else I'm fairly sure that one of the many people I've heard about this number from would've mentioned it. Among other things, if Goku really was at over 900 during the Raditz fight, and the Kamehameha was only equal to his power, then just about everything involving ki amplification makes a lot more sense.

[TheMightyOzaru]

If his power level was around 900, then yeah. But not if he was only at 400.

I'm 99% sure that the Weekly Jump article was referring to his actual power, or else I'm fairly sure that one of the many people I've heard about this number from would've mentioned it. Among other things, if Goku really was at over 900 during the Raditz fight, and the Kamehameha was only equal to his power, then just about everything involving ki amplification makes a lot more sense.

I'm 99% sure as well but it's a possibility.

[RandomGuy96]

It's a possibility, but I think I'm going to roll with it being his actual power for my list, and disregard the pre-Raditz V-Jump numbers, just because I think that it makes more sense. Even if it's not correct it'll still be a fun experiment.

[RandomGuy96]

Okay. Going off that Weekly Jump number, I revised my list on page 103. How does this look?

Red Ribbon Army Arc

(just a few important ones)

Karin- 190
Goku- 55
--Post-Karin training- 165
Bora- 46
Tao- 110

(I know I said that I was going to ignore the V-Jump numbers for the original Dragon Ball, but the numbers for Tao and Karin work fine, so I keep them. Goku at first gets trashed by Tao effortlessly (along with Bora), but after the Karin training, he easily crushes Tao. Karin even said that he got several times stronger just in that relatively brief period.

22nd Tournament/Tien Arc

Goku- 180
Roshi- 139
Krillin- 105
Yamcha- 90

Tien- 160
Crane Hermit- 120
Chiaotzu- 85

King Chappa- 80
Pamput- 30

(Goku got a little stronger since he beat Tao. This proves too much for Tien, but Tien is able to narrowly pull a victory due to his crazy techniques as well as the infamous ring technicality. No one else is really a match for these two, even Roshi, who gets defeated without much trouble. Shen/Crane Hermit is at his V-Jump level because again it works fine. Chiaotzu is able to briefly keep up with Krillin, but is of course much weaker than him, having to rely on psychic powers to hold out. He would've been successful too if not for Krillin's tricks.

King Piccolo Saga

Goku- 180
--"Match Level"- 120
--Post-God Water- 500
Tien- 165
Roshi- 139
Yajirobe- 130
Krillin- 106
Yamcha- 90

(Goku is at first King Piccolo's bitch. But after drinking the god water, he becomes his equal, and his able to narrowly defeat him. No one else changes much in this short time, though Tien may have gotten a little stronger during learning the Mafuba. Yajirobe was on par with a suppressed "match level" Goku but was shocked to see Goku go all out against Tambourine.)

King Piccolo- 450
--Half Power (vs Goku Round 1)- 225
--Young- 530
Drum- 210
Tambourine- 140
Cymbal- 105
Piano- 7

(King Piccolo can stomp Goku in his old state at half power, and gets better in every way after becoming young. I had all of his son's power levels be multiples of seven because shut up. Tambourine is able to handle most of Earth's martial artists effortlessly, most impressively Krillin, but is stomped by a serious and well fed Goku. Cymbal is much weaker than his brother but is still strong enough to take most of Earth's fighters, and strong enough that Yajirobe killing him is seen as an impressive feat. Drum is strong enough to crush Tien but gets one shotted by Goku.)

Kami- 700
Popo- 560

(Both of them stomp Goku after he finishes defeating King Piccolo, though in Popo's case this is mainly due to his superior skills and the ability to sense ki. Kami is "much more wonderful" than Popo in everything, from powers to abilities, such as creating the dragon balls, and wisdom. He even stops Goku with his finger. However, he is by no measure in his prime.)

23rd Tournament

Goku- 910
--Weighted/Suppressed (vs Tien)- 600
Kami/Shen- 700
Tien- 560
Krillin- 350
Yamcha- 300
Yajirobe- 250
Chiaotzu- 185
Chi Chi- 130

Piccolo Junior- 890
Cyborg Tao- 440
Crane Hermit- 120

(Tao said that his abilities were many times greater than they were before. However, this is still no match for Tien. Speaking of Tien, he says that the Goku he fights at the tournament is stronger than the one that beat King Piccolo, and Tien was more or less matching him punch for punch and dominating in speed. That is, until Goku removes his weights... then he shoots up to the level V-Jump had him at. Piccolo is just a tiny bit inferior. The others have also made large gains, just like Tien has. Except Yajirobe. He's grown, but not very much, since he's lazy.)

Garlic Jr. Attacks Earth

Goku- 920
Piccolo- 900
Kami- 650
Krillin- 400
Gohan (angry)- 1,309

(Everyone is just a tiny bit weaker than they are when Raditz arrives. Except Kami, who has further declined due to his age, but he's not quite on his death bed yet.)

Garlic Jr- 760
--Full Power- 1,140
Nicky- 400
--Full Power- 600
Sansho- 380
--Full Power- 570
Ginger- 360
-Full Power- 540

(Garlic Jr.'s henchmen can take out Piccolo with surprise and numbers on their side, but without that, they're easily thrashed. They are, however, stronger than Krillin, hence why he didn't try to fight them. Garlic Jr himself is strong enough to defeat Goku and Piccolo separately easily, but is overwhelmed by their combined power. Because of this, he's not as strong as Raditz, who stomped Goku and Piccolo even they came at him together and forced Piccolo to pull out a haxxed technique and forced Goku to sacrifice himself.)

Arrival of Raditz

Goku- 924
--Suppressed- 416
Piccolo- 905
--Suppressed- 408
--Special Beam Cannon- 1,440
Gohan- 2
--Gohan(Angry)- 1,307
Tenshinhan- 625
--Resting- 250
Krillin- 515
--Resting- 206
Yamcha- 443
--Resting- 177
Master Roshi- 139

Raditz- 1,500

(Mostly going off the Weekly Jump numbers and scaling appropriately for the humans. Every other levels comes from the manga or Daizenshuu.)