Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
User avatar
DoomieDoomie911
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 2:12 pm
Location: United States

Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:03 pm

The only one that's Namekian is Piccolo. Does that mean he can create any kind of offspring he wants...? And if so, are all Namekians like this?
Cipher wrote:Dragon Ball is the story of a kind-hearted, excitable child who uses the power of friendship to improve those around him as he grows into a dangerous obsessive who sometimes accidentally saves the world.
She/her (I have a Twitter account now.)

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:09 pm

Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo (originally), Piano, Tambourine, Cymbal, and Drum are all Namekians. They are just Demon Clan Namekians.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
DoomieDoomie911
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 2:12 pm
Location: United States

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:16 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo (originally), Piano, Tambourine, Cymbal, and Drum are all Namekians. They are just Demon Clan Namekians.
So they look differently than normal Namekians?
Cipher wrote:Dragon Ball is the story of a kind-hearted, excitable child who uses the power of friendship to improve those around him as he grows into a dangerous obsessive who sometimes accidentally saves the world.
She/her (I have a Twitter account now.)

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:19 pm

DoomieDoomie911 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo (originally), Piano, Tambourine, Cymbal, and Drum are all Namekians. They are just Demon Clan Namekians.
So they look differently than normal Namekians?
Yes, because they are Demon Clan Namekians. Daizenshuu explained that they look like this because Piccolo Daimao was a Demon Clansman.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
DoomieDoomie911
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 2:12 pm
Location: United States

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:20 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
DoomieDoomie911 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo (originally), Piano, Tambourine, Cymbal, and Drum are all Namekians. They are just Demon Clan Namekians.
So they look differently than normal Namekians?
Yes, because they are Demon Clan Namekians. Daizenshuu explained that they look like this because Piccolo Daimao was a Demon Clansman.
OK, thanks for clarifying! :D
Cipher wrote:Dragon Ball is the story of a kind-hearted, excitable child who uses the power of friendship to improve those around him as he grows into a dangerous obsessive who sometimes accidentally saves the world.
She/her (I have a Twitter account now.)

User avatar
DBZ Mick
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1130
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 1:38 am
Location: Australia

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by DBZ Mick » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:31 pm

I always thought that it was because Daimao was just the evil half of God's soul and that's why they looked demonic like. But it's cool the Daizenshuu explained it.
It is in his character to be rude and a bit crass. He's a hick, with no formal education. That is Son Goku. That is who he is.

Superman in an orange Gi was the bastard son of FUNimation. Its not The real character, it is as false as Chatku.

-DemonRin

User avatar
Hitiro
I Live Here
Posts: 3433
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:43 pm

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Hitiro » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:49 am

If you want to further the explanation then Piccolo Daimao isn't a naturally occurring Namekian himself. Piccolo Daimao was the result of Kami expelling all of his negative and evil energy from his body. Piccolo Daimao is a unexpected bi-product of this and you can't really expect him to be like a normal Namekian.

User avatar
Blade
I Live Here
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: Contrary to popular belief, not on Kanzenshuu forums.

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Blade » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:57 am

Do you want a better explanation?

Toriyama hadn't even thought of the term 'Namek' yet. At this point Piccolo was a demon, him being an alien from outer space was an afterthought - although I believe that the Funimation Dragonball dub refers to him as an 'alien' several times.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.

User avatar
Draken
Banned
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:01 am

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Draken » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:59 am

Blade wrote:Do you want a better explanation?

Toriyama hadn't even thought of the term 'Namek' yet. At this point Piccolo was a demon, him being an alien from outer space was an afterthought - although I believe that the Funimation Dragonball dub refers to him as an 'alien' several times.
Not in-universe though :P.

User avatar
Blade
I Live Here
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: Contrary to popular belief, not on Kanzenshuu forums.

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Blade » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:42 am

In most cases I'd agree that citing real-world circumstances isn't a valid way of explaining things, but in this case I think it's actually rather apt. It's really explicitly simple, the demon's created by Piccolo weren't Namekians because they were never meant to be - Toriyama hadn't thought of the idea yet.

Most Daizenshuu explanations for these sorts of inconsistencies are just join-the-dots afterthoughts to create a totality of the Dragonball lore, as opposed to being categorical descriptions of Toriyama's master plan. Take them with a pinch of salt.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:58 am

The Demon Clansmen are Namekians, just not normal ones.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
Sleazy Freeza
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:02 am

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Sleazy Freeza » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:29 am

Obviously Toriyama hadn't yet thought up the concept of Namekians during the Piccolo Daimao arc, so the "out of universe" explanation is quite obvious. However, I suppose you could claim that there was some sort of implied retcon when Piccolo's alien heritage was revealed, and that the demon spawn were actually just "mutated" Namekians or something.

That said, as far as in universe explanations go, the idea that "demon spawning" is a kind of forbidden, not-often-talked-about practice within Namekian culture seems pretty reasonable to me. If Piccolo Junior inherited the ability (but never used it), it might also help to explain the basis for Cell's ability to spawn "Cell Juniors".

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10371
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:13 am

Sleazy Freeza wrote:Obviously Toriyama hadn't yet thought up the concept of Namekians during the Piccolo Daimao arc, so the "out of universe" explanation is quite obvious. However, I suppose you could claim that there was some sort of implied retcon when Piccolo's alien heritage was revealed, and that the demon spawn were actually just "mutated" Namekians or something.

That said, as far as in universe explanations go, the idea that "demon spawning" is a kind of forbidden, not-often-talked-about practice within Namekian culture seems pretty reasonable to me. If Piccolo Junior inherited the ability (but never used it), it might also help to explain the basis for Cell's ability to spawn "Cell Juniors".
Welcome to the forums! (Like the username, BTW)
Yeah, this is pretty much what I've always figured. Makes me wonder if Cell could "specialize" his Cell Juniors the way Daimao did his spawn (Tambourine for combat, Cymbol for finding Dragonballs.)
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:29 am

I'd argue that since Piccolo Daimao is the manifestation of evil off Kami, he is a Demon. Since he is a Demon, he can produce actual Demons as offspring.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

User avatar
Sleazy Freeza
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:02 am

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Sleazy Freeza » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:29 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Welcome to the forums! (Like the username, BTW)
Thank you. Wouldn't you know, I've actually had this account for years. I just haven't used it until now.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Yeah, this is pretty much what I've always figured. Makes me wonder if Cell could "specialize" his Cell Juniors the way Daimao did his spawn (Tambourine for combat, Cymbol for finding Dragonballs.)
I'd have liked to have seen that. Especially if it meant the juniors were all designed to exploit specific weaknesses in each of the Z Senshi, rather than just being excessively more powerful.

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10371
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:39 am

TheMightyOzaru wrote:I'd argue that since Piccolo Daimao is the manifestation of evil off Kami, he is a Demon. Since he is a Demon, he can produce actual Demons as offspring.
Possibly, but I wonder if any Dragon Clan Namekian that goes bad would be considered a Demon Clan Namekian. We only seel two evil Namekians, if you count the movies, and I'm thinking that Slug was a Warrior Clan member.
Sleazy Freeza wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Welcome to the forums! (Like the username, BTW)
Thank you. Wouldn't you know, I've actually had this account for years. I just haven't used it until now.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Yeah, this is pretty much what I've always figured. Makes me wonder if Cell could "specialize" his Cell Juniors the way Daimao did his spawn (Tambourine for combat, Cymbol for finding Dragonballs.)
I'd have liked to have seen that. Especially if it meant the juniors were all designed to exploit specific weaknesses in each of the Z Senshi, rather than just being excessively more powerful.
Cell could make his own Ginyu Force of specialized Cell Juniors. That'd be pretty cool.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
Sleazy Freeza
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:02 am

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Sleazy Freeza » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:51 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Possibly, but I wonder if any Dragon Clan Namekian that goes bad would be considered a Demon Clan Namekian. We only seel two evil Namekians, if you count the movies, and I'm thinking that Slug was a Warrior Clan member.
Speaking of which, one of Slug's henchman, Metamucha, appeared to be a demon creature similar the ones spawned by Piccolo (not sure if it matters, though).

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10371
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:53 am

Sleazy Freeza wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Possibly, but I wonder if any Dragon Clan Namekian that goes bad would be considered a Demon Clan Namekian. We only seel two evil Namekians, if you count the movies, and I'm thinking that Slug was a Warrior Clan member.
Speaking of which, one of Slug's henchman, Metamucha, appeared to be a demon creature similar the ones spawned by Piccolo (not sure if it matters, though).
That's the one that made a bunch of mini-versions of himself, right?
I think there's an article on this site that talks about a lot of the movie henchmen. I'll see if I can find it and see what it says.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
Sleazy Freeza
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:02 am

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Sleazy Freeza » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:59 am

He definitely wore the same type of clothing as Tambourine/Cymbal/Drum etc.

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10371
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Why aren't all of Piccolo Daimao's offspring Namekian?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:04 am

Just looked it up, and the movie pamphlet says that all of Slug's henchmen were from Planet Slug. And Slug took his name from the planet, interestingly enough. But it does seem that they are Demon Clan
Herms wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I haven't seen this movie in ages, but weren't they referred to as demons at some point during the movie? Or am I just completely misremembering that part?
Yeah, they're called the "Demon Clan" (Mazoku), same as with Piccolo and co., and Garlic Junior and co. It seems (at least based on the anime) that the Demon Clan isn't a specific species, but rather a state which different species can fall into or out of. So people from Namek, Makyo, and Slug can all be part of the Demon Clan, and Garlic Junior can convert everyone on Earth into it too.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

Post Reply