Did Gohan even lose power?

[Cardle grave]

Will Skills and Techniques can make up for power gap, Like me personally regardless if Gohan at Cell games is stronger then his dad i would always say Gohan would lose to him. I think that what vegeta is targeting and that is skills. And When Gohan powered up even though he was stronger, the Z fighters and Cell himself said Goku should go in there and fight cell not Gohan.

It Doesn't make sense at all anyways. Its not like gohan at Cell games is a pro fighter or OMG Look at his fighting skills as he didn't display nothing but dodging Cell (Piccolo DODGEEEE) if anything Gohan as an adult is more skilled seriously i never seen gohan do a proper move or anything amazing except when his enrage while Adult well Done something

[Draken]

Will Skills and Techniques can make up for power gap, Like me personally regardless if Gohan at Cell games is stronger then his dad i would always say Gohan would lose to him. I think that what vegeta is targeting and that is skills. And When Gohan powered up even though he was stronger, the Z fighters and Cell himself said Goku should go in there and fight cell not Gohan.

It Doesn't make sense at all anyways. Its not like gohan at Cell games is a pro fighter or OMG Look at his fighting skills as he didn't display nothing but dodging Cell (Piccolo DODGEEEE) if anything Gohan as an adult is more skilled seriously i never seen gohan do a proper move or anything amazing except when his enrage while Adult well Done something

With a big enough gap no matter how skilled you are, you're going to get creamed.

[Cardle grave]

yeah but the gap between Goku and Gohan was not OMG its so Huge it was Maybe his stronger then Goku kind of Gap.

[MDSTSSJ]

Will Skills and Techniques can make up for power gap, Like me personally regardless if Gohan at Cell games is stronger then his dad i would always say Gohan would lose to him. I think that what vegeta is targeting and that is skills. And When Gohan powered up even though he was stronger, the Z fighters and Cell himself said Goku should go in there and fight cell not Gohan.

It Doesn't make sense at all anyways. Its not like gohan at Cell games is a pro fighter or OMG Look at his fighting skills as he didn't display nothing but dodging Cell (Piccolo DODGEEEE) if anything Gohan as an adult is more skilled seriously i never seen gohan do a proper move or anything amazing except when his enrage while Adult well Done something

Vegeta targeting skills when Gohan is fighting Dabura. Earlier, After Gohan becomes SSJ2 in front of Kibito ( no fighting, no nothing ), Vegeta states that he is weaker.

[Draken]

yeah but the gap between Goku and Gohan was not OMG its so Huge it was Maybe his stronger then Goku kind of Gap.

The gap was quite noticeable in the Cell Saga after Goku pointed it out. Especially once Gohan got mad. His SSj2 far outstripped the SSj2 Goku would have had at the time.

[Cardle grave]

Will Skills and Techniques can make up for power gap, Like me personally regardless if Gohan at Cell games is stronger then his dad i would always say Gohan would lose to him. I think that what vegeta is targeting and that is skills. And When Gohan powered up even though he was stronger, the Z fighters and Cell himself said Goku should go in there and fight cell not Gohan.

It Doesn't make sense at all anyways. Its not like gohan at Cell games is a pro fighter or OMG Look at his fighting skills as he didn't display nothing but dodging Cell (Piccolo DODGEEEE) if anything Gohan as an adult is more skilled seriously i never seen gohan do a proper move or anything amazing except when his enrage while Adult well Done something

Vegeta targeting skills when Gohan is fighting Dabura. Earlier, After Gohan becomes SSJ2 in front of Kibito ( no fighting, no nothing ), Vegeta states that he is weaker.

Weaker to his Enrage self when he killed cell, It was a decent gap but Cell knew he was better fighting off Goku if he didn't knew about Gohan Rage boost

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Like I said, Vegeta could be saying that Gohan is weaker because of his rusty skills, not for his battle power. Check this:

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

So, Dabra is an opponent that Goku & Vegeta can win, or he is an opponent that Gohan can win against? It can be translated as either "he" (Gohan) or "we" (Goku & Vegeta). But ignoring that line, Vegeta is only talking about Gohan's power at that point, he isn't comparing himself & Goku with Gohan. And we also see Goku calling Dabra stronger because of his skills (magic), so Vegeta could also be saying that Gohan is weaker because he doesn't have the same skill & fighting instinct that he had before (he is too slow at finishing his opponent), and if the above line is translated with a "he" instead of a "we", it supports what I say.

You are right my friend but, what about this:

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P6.3-5
Context: after Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan 2
Spopovitch: “He-hey, look at this…”
*the energy meter spins around*
Yamu: “Stupendous energy…! It’s him!”

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?”
Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!”
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”

¨Far better when he killed Cell¨ in this case means stronger than that Gohan SSJ2 that kill Cell.

After this, I still think that Gohan become weaker, furthermore rusty and unskilled fighter!!

Of course Gohan is weaker there, he isn't angry. Vegeta has only seen an angry Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, who is naturally stronger than a non-angry Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

[Kaboom]

I figure Goten lost a little bit of power. Just enough that it's only really obvious when he goes Super Saiyan 2 (and still noticeable but less so at Super Saiyan 1). Him dropping from a 70 to a 60 in base isn't easy to see until it becomes a 7000 to a 6000 at Super Saiyan 2.

So it's kind of a middle ground between Vegeta's dissing him in the manga, and the Daizenshuu saying his power "hadn't changed" and focusing the difference mainly on his Super Saiyan 2.

[Cardle grave]

I figure Goten lost a little bit of power. Just enough that it's only really obvious when he goes Super Saiyan 2 (and still noticeable but less so at Super Saiyan 1). Him dropping from a 70 to a 60 in base isn't easy to see until it becomes a 7000 to a 6000 at Super Saiyan 2.

So it's kind of a middle ground between Vegeta's dissing him in the manga, and the Daizenshuu saying his power "hadn't changed" and focusing the difference mainly on his Super Saiyan 2.

Gohan my friend

Do you know where the quote is that states Gohan is the same, I want to put it on my Forum in the translation area with the Rest of the Daizenshuu series

[PerfectFreeza]

Even if he got rage boost as a kid, how would slacking off weaken his anger?

[Cardle grave]

I am going to love this

[Saiga]

Can someone provide the quotes for the Daizenshuu saying his power hasn't changed (as well as ones for Goten and Trunks' power not changing) ?

[Kaboom]

All such quotes that I know of are from the "Growing Up" character guides in Daizenshuu #2.

HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT
First Appears: Vol. 36-42
Many years after the battle with Cell, Gohan had become a high school student. Due to either Chi Chi's influence or him neglecting to train, his strength hadn't changed since he was a boy.

HIGH SCHOOL ERA SUPER SAIYAN 2
First Appears: Vol. 37
During the Tenkaichi Budoukai he transforms at Kibito's request. Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell.

YOUNG ADULTHOOD
First Appears: Vol. 42
Ten years after the battle with Majin Buu, Goten had completely become a young man, and had changed his hair as well. Since peace had thrown off his training, power-wise he hasn't had any explosive growth since when he was a boy.

10 YEARS LATER
First Appears: Vol. 42
Having fully become an adult, he is now at about the same age as adult Trunks. Since he doesn't train very often, he hasn't explosively powered up.

[Saiga]

Thanks.

Hmmm, still room for Goten and Trunks to be stronger. Good, good. Just not as strong as they could be.

And this makes me think even more than Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra. Why the hell did I write Cell at first, of course he was a SS2 then.

[Cardle grave]

That quote is going on my forum translation page

thanks Kaboom

So then Gohan didn't lose any power just couldn't access his rage properly, Broly fans are going crazy right now

[dbzfan7]

Thanks.

Hmmm, still room for Goten and Trunks to be stronger. Good, good. Just not as strong as they could be.

And this makes me think even more than Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra. Why the hell did I write Cell at first, of course he was a SS2 then.

Maybe Toriyama forgot the lightning during Gohan's fight and during his final attack on the Boo ball. Though in the latter moment we have lightning with Goku and Vegeta's fight but not Gohan. So perhaps he was SSJ2 against Dabra and SSJ when attacking Boo's ball. IDK.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Daizenshuu also say that Gohan never went SSJ2 past the Budokai even though the Daizenshuu also say he was a SSJ2 against Dabura. The Daizenshuu aren't perfectly accurate. I find Gohan having the same power as when he was a kid to be one of those hiccups since the Manga seems to portray that 7 years of slack did decrease Gohan's power a bit. Vegeta says Gohan was stronger as a brat when Gohan was fighting Dabura and Gohan didn't have the SSJ2 aura, lightning, hair, and face.

[Cardle grave]

Give me the quote of he didn't go SSj2 after budokai

[Saiga]

Maybe Toriyama forgot the lightning during Gohan's fight and during his final attack on the Boo ball. Though in the latter moment we have lightning with Goku and Vegeta's fight but not Gohan. So perhaps he was SSJ2 against Dabra and SSJ when attacking Boo's ball. IDK.

I actually believe the sparks aren't part of Super Saiyan 2, the GT Perfect Files are the only official publication that says this (and they're actually wrong, because they use this reasoning for why no-one went Super Saiyan 2 in GT despite Goku doing so against Rilld). I think they're just a general representation of power.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Give me the quote of he didn't go SSj2 after budokai

Sources say it's in the Daizenshuu 4, I'll see if I can find it.