Success of a failure... dissecting FUNi's Z dub

[penguintruth]

It was always pretty clear to me that Goku spoke differently than most of the other characters, based on Nozawa's delivery.

[hleV]

Reminded me of a discussion regarding the translation of DBO.

[Ajay]

Reminded me of a discussion regarding the translation of DBO.

*sigh*

I don't even understand their logic. It's meant to be a goddamn Dragon Ball fansite. Why on earth would they want the Funi names?! The people who want to play Dragon Ball Online with the fantranslations are most likely huge fans...you'd expect that level of fandom to have a brain.

[penguintruth]

DBZ succeeded here because it had everything its target audience was looking for: martial arts, super powers, demons, aliens, explosions, spaceships, time travel, magic, and even freaking dinosaurs! It didn't succeed based on its RAWK soundtrack (because Levy's score was hardly like that and it was extremely popular before Faulconer's music ever showed up) or awful scripts. It succeeded DESPITE those things. It succeeded because it was a quirky, bizarre action show about guys with weird hair punching each other into mountains and firing laser beams out of their body parts. You could only appeal more to the target audience if you added monster trucks and... I don't know, boobs. (Which Bulma had!) You came home after school and they had two episodes on back-to-back. What more could you ask for?

[Hellspawn28]

DBZ was also on Toonami during the afternoons, so it had enough exposure to make it popular. I remember DBZ was on very early in the morning from 1996 - 1997 and it seem like very little people at the time knew about it until 1998.

[WesMan23]

DBZ was also on Toonami during the afternoons, so it had enough exposure to make it popular. I remember DBZ was on very early in the morning from 1996 - 1997 and it seem like very little people at the time knew about it until 1998.

I do remember the early morning airings, and that's what got me into it. I remember first watching Goku's fight with Vegeta, and I thought that it was completely awesome. I didn't see the episodes with Raditz until much later when it started getting a little more popular, but seeing Goku and Vegeta duke it out, I was immediately hooked. That's the great thing about the series, is that you can see just a little bit of it, and it makes you want to see more of it immediately.

[DBZ Mick]

It was on a 8:00 when it premièred here in Australia I believe in 2000. I didn't see it then but I remember everyone discussing it during class and lunch/recess break.

[Rocketman]

You came home after school and they had two episodes on back-to-back. What more could you ask for?

Goku being voiced by a cockatoo, apparently.


WAAARK

[penguintruth]

You came home after school and they had two episodes on back-to-back. What more could you ask for?

Goku being voiced by a cockatoo, apparently.


WAAARK

An actual cockatoo can do better than most of the guys they had play him in English.

If you don't like how the character is supposed to sound, don't watch the show.

[Ringworm128]

He can watch what he damn well wants just because he doesn't want to watch the show with Nozawa or a Nozawa esc voice doesn't mean he should stop watching the show.

You came home after school and they had two episodes on back-to-back. What more could you ask for?

Goku being voiced by a cockatoo, apparently.


WAAARK

I love Nozawa as Goku but that analogy was perfect.

[Kendamu]

DBZ succeeded here because it had everything its target audience was looking for: martial arts, super powers, demons, aliens, explosions, spaceships, time travel, magic, and even freaking dinosaurs! It didn't succeed based on its RAWK soundtrack (because Levy's score was hardly like that and it was extremely popular before Faulconer's music ever showed up) or awful scripts. It succeeded DESPITE those things. It succeeded because it was a quirky, bizarre action show about guys with weird hair punching each other into mountains and firing laser beams out of their body parts. You could only appeal more to the target audience if you added monster trucks and... I don't know, boobs. (Which Bulma had!) You came home after school and they had two episodes on back-to-back. What more could you ask for?

This is the absolute truth. Even with the Shuki Levy score and the obvious censorship (that I just shrugged at and moved on until I saw DBZ Uncensored and found out exactly how much was censored), Dragonball Z was unlike anything I had ever seen before! Batman, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, X-Men, and Street Fighter II were all things I was into prior to discovering DBZ and they had elements of what I like about DBZ, but the way they were put together with such a unique art style really caught my attention. After discovering how different the American version was, it baffled my mind that this show could get even better than it already was!

Every time I read someone's post stating that DBZ succeeded DESPITE those things, I can't do anything but absolutely agree.

[theoriginalbilis]

This is the absolute truth. Even with the Shuki Levy score and the obvious censorship (that I just shrugged at and moved on until I saw DBZ Uncensored and found out exactly how much was censored), Dragonball Z was unlike anything I had ever seen before! Batman, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, X-Men, and Street Fighter II were all things I was into prior to discovering DBZ and they had elements of what I like about DBZ, but the way they were put together with such a unique art style really caught my attention. After discovering how different the American version was, it baffled my mind that this show could get even better than it already was!

Every time I read someone's post stating that DBZ succeeded DESPITE those things, I can't do anything but absolutely agree.

I will also throw in my agreement. Hell, the first thing that struck me about the show were the visuals and action scenes. Of course, part of me fondly remembers the old Saban/Toonami days, but I'm glad we've moved past that (for the most part) and got the show proper.

But yeah, just because DBZ got popular when the dub aired doesn't mean the dubbing itself was the main reason DBZ became popular. It was just a radically different show visually from what we got up to that point on American TV, and the charm of the show still came through despite the massive rewrites, edits, and voice changes.

[Hellspawn28]

I became a fan of DBZ because I like the characters, the story and the action. Having it on Toonami was the best choice since I would most likely never know about it if it wasn't for Toonami. I discover DBZ back in 1998 when I was waiting for Beast Wars to come on Toonami after school. I knew about Dragon Ball, but not Dragon Ball Z.

[Kamiccolo9]

I became a fan of DBZ because I like the characters, the story and the action. Having it on Toonami was the best choice since I would most likely never know about it if it wasn't for Toonami. I discover DBZ back in 1998 when I was waiting for Beast Wars to come on Toonami after school. I knew about Dragon Ball, but not Dragon Ball Z.

Beast Wars was on Toonami? I thought it was on Fox Kids. I may be mistaken though. Love that show

My first view of DBZ was flipping through channels, and seeing in rotating foil letters: "Goku vs Vegeta: A Saiyan Duel," I watched the episode, and was hooked. Until they finished the fight with Freeza and constant reruns ruined the show for me for a few years.

[TheBlackPaladin]

This is the absolute truth. Even with the Shuki Levy score and the obvious censorship (that I just shrugged at and moved on until I saw DBZ Uncensored and found out exactly how much was censored), Dragonball Z was unlike anything I had ever seen before! Batman, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, X-Men, and Street Fighter II were all things I was into prior to discovering DBZ and they had elements of what I like about DBZ, but the way they were put together with such a unique art style really caught my attention. After discovering how different the American version was, it baffled my mind that this show could get even better than it already was!

Every time I read someone's post stating that DBZ succeeded DESPITE those things, I can't do anything but absolutely agree.

I will also throw in my agreement. Hell, the first thing that struck me about the show were the visuals and action scenes. Of course, part of me fondly remembers the old Saban/Toonami days, but I'm glad we've moved past that (for the most part) and got the show proper.

But yeah, just because DBZ got popular when the dub aired doesn't mean the dubbing itself was the main reason DBZ became popular. It was just a radically different show visually from what we got up to that point on American TV, and the charm of the show still came through despite the massive rewrites, edits, and voice changes.

Before I say anything, I would like to make it clear that, as a fan, I don't approve of the approach FUNimation took to dubbing DBZ (even though they did get significantly better in time). With that said, I think when we talk about the decisions FUNimation made in dubbing DBZ, we're thinking about them from a fan's perspective, and not necessarily from a business perspective. While it's true that DBZ being radically different from most shows on North American TV certainly helped, I still don't know that I agree that the show got popular "in spite of" the dub. I honestly think that, as much as it pains me to say it, some of FUNimation's decisions did help DBZ to become popular in North America.

Besides the examples I already mentioned of shows that didn't become popular on their own merits like "Saint Seiya" and "One Piece" (which were sunk by unsatisfactory dubs), let's talk about the implication associated with the idea that DBZ has become popular "in spite of the dub," and that it would have succeeded on its own merits. What that implies is that the visuals and story elements are all that were needed to make the show popular, and that any audio elements--like music and voices--were of no consequence, meaning that FUNimation could have inserted any audio they wanted and the show still would have been popular.

This is, in my opinion, clearly not true. I know as Kanzenshuuers we prefer Kikuchi's score for the most part, but surely we're aware of the massive popularity that the Faulconer score has. Surely we're aware that many fans have declared DBZ "unwatchable" without the Faulconer score. Surely we're aware that many fans don't care for the original Japanese voices and think they sound "like a bunch of old ladies." Surely we're aware that, as horrifically un-Goku as it is, many fans absolutely adore that "Hope of the Universe" speech.

These are all things that were a result of changes FUNimation made. And they are all things that many fans still prefer even after the original Japanese version has become widely accessible, both through home video releases and through YouTube clips. FUNimation significantly "reversioned" DBZ, but as much as some of us may deny it, that "reversioning" of DBZ is still very popular in North America. So popular, in fact, that many fans don't particularly care about all the liberties that were taken, even after becoming aware of the original Japanese version. The original version doesn't resonate with them, and the "reversioning" does. This is in some cases due to fans being narrow-minded, and in some cases due to the power of nostalgia.......but clearly, there are those who actually prefer the "reversioned" product rather than the original product.

So, the fact that many people prefer the "reversioned" product implies that, yes, FUNimation's changes, however just or unjust they may have been, did cause some (perhaps a lot) of people to think of the show more favorably than they otherwise might have.

[Kendamu]

The popularity of the dub score is purely a product of nostalgia. Nobody ever said, when DBZ Movies 1-3 aired dubbed on CN with the Ocean Group cast, "This music is so gay! They should use the music from the TV show," or, "Why aren't there as many jokes? This movie sucks!" Based on that, I believe that FUNimation could've properly translated the show and used the original music and the larger North American fanbase wouldn't have ever had a problem with it.

When asking friends (who don't argue about DBZ online) why they like DBZ, they say, "The story and the action are cool." I'd say something like:

"What about the music?"
"Oh that's cool, too."
"Which soundtrack do you listen to?"
"What? Dude, I just put the DVD* in and hit Play."

This isn't a unique phenomenon, either. Those are the reasons why I think DBZ would've done just fine being given to us as it was in movies 1-3.


*Orange Bricks

[theoriginalbilis]

The popularity of the dub score is purely a product of nostalgia. Nobody ever said, when DBZ Movies 1-3 aired dubbed on CN with the Ocean Group cast, "This music is so gay! They should use the music from the TV show," or, "Why aren't there as many jokes? This movie sucks!" Based on that, I believe that FUNimation could've properly translated the show and used the original music and the larger North American fanbase wouldn't have ever had a problem with it.

I agree with you in that regard.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that ardent "Faulconer score" fans are just a very vocal online minority of the English-speaking DBZ viewership (but larger than the ardent Japanese fans, obviously.) I think like most TV shows/movies on home video, people just buy them and hit play: as long as they can watch their program in English, they're good. They're not actively looking for differences in the audio/visual presentation.

That explains the Orange Bricks' success. Despite complaints about the various changes made to the Star Wars DVDs/Blu-Rays over the years, they still sell incredibly well, why? The majority of the consumers don't care. They just want to sit back and enjoy the movie.

[Fionordequester]

The popularity of the dub score is purely a product of nostalgia.

But you know there's a good number of people who legitimately love the dub score despite being hardcore fans, right? Like me? I mean, I know that we're a vocal minority, and I really don't mean to be a pill, but I find it incredibly frustrating when people make statements about the dub score like this. Putting it the way you said it, to me at least, implies that I'm less of a fan for liking the dub score better than Kikuchi, or that I have no taste in music.

I mean, I know it's to be expected when I'm the oddman out in terms of demographics, but what I want to know is "how do you know that the same thing couldn't be said about the Kikuchi score (that is, it's popularity is only due to nostalgia)"? Or for that matter, about any score?

[theoriginalbilis]

The difference between the dub score and the Kikuchi's score is that the Kikuchi score was an integral part of the original creation & production of the anime. The directors, producer, and sound departments all decided on the Kikuchi score as a part of the show's aesthetic. That was part of the intended vision of the show.

At least in my case, I don't like the Kikuchi score only because of nostalgia. Because I watched the Ocean dub first, right before I dived headfirst into the uncut Japanese version. I just felt that the Japanese music fit the tone of the series better on the whole, and sounded better due to much better production values. Of course, I'm a guy who analyzes all aspects of his entertainment while consuming it. Most people don't do this.

And you can be a fan of the Faulconer score all you want. I have no problem with that, bud. More power to you. I like some of those pieces myself. But I think it does say something when you can take a step back and realize that wasn't the original intended music of the series.

[Fionordequester]

At least in my case, I don't like the Kikuchi score because of nostalgia. Because I watched the Ocean dub first, right before I dived headfirst into the uncut Japanese version. I just felt that the Japanese music fit the tone of the series better on the whole, and sounded better due to much better production values. Of course, I'm a guy who analyzes all aspects of his entertainment while consuming it. Most people don't do this.

I see. Cool. I was, admittedly, exposed to the Faulconer score first, but only through the game "Legacy of Goku 2", and only as a teenager, because when you're a young impressionable child, whose obviously sneaking in sessions of DBZ when your parents forbid it out of hearsay, and the episode they finally actually SEE happens to have THIS on screen...



...Well...let's just say they weren't too open to the idea of letting me watch it ! But anyways, I was only like, 5 when watching DBZ on TV, so it wasn't until Legacy of Goku 2 that I could actually appreciate the music. That's why I count it as the first time being exposed to it.