FUNimation "DBZ on Blu-Ray" Survey

[Kendamu]

Dragon Ball Z was made in 4:3. It cannot simply bend over backwards to fit humans' whims. We humans must bend to the truth.

While that is true, if it were given a Japanese broadcast Kai-style cropping, I could live with it a lot better than I could the approach FUNimation used where not much attention was paid to preserving the vital image area.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I'm up in arms because, sadly, there are people out there in the world who legitimately think that reacting that way over a DVD release is fine, and it gets old fast. If you actually meant it as just a joke, I still find it a poor one, but eh, at least I know you're not among the crazies then.

That's fair enough, it's not exactly a tasteful or mature joke but heyho. Fear not, I'm not actually going to go on a killing spree over an aspect ratio.

And that sets my mind at ease. And re-reading my posts, I feel I should apologize a little bit - while I stand by much of what I said, I may have been a little 'much' myself, due to being in a bad mood due to overheating and a long work day. Sorry about that.

Regardless, I actually haven't even taken the survey yet at all. I did have the e-mail notification about it open though...where did they get this artwork? I don't think I've ever seen it before.

[Metalwario64]

where did they get this artwork? I don't think I've ever seen it before.

I don't know. FUNimation is either drawing this stuff, or I guess getting it from Japan or something.

But, wow, why is Chi Chi standing on her heels? Really awkward pose she's in there.

[ect5150]

Why should we pay more to get an edited product?`

Wouldn't it be better to get both options so you can choose your preferred aspect ratio instead of being stuck with an aspect ratio you don't like?

Aside from the idea that, basically, if you don't like the show the way it is, you probably shouldn't be watching it, the truth of the matter is... ZOOM! Why pay $7 or whatever more when ignorant proponents of film destruction can get what they want for free?

Whoa! Realize this is an elitist attitude guys. God forbid someone have different preferences than your own.

[VegettoEX]

An elitist attitude about viewing preferences and film preservation is another viewpoint someone has that you should acknowledge as different from your own and understand where they're coming from.

Right?

[Ringworm128]

Dragon Ball Z was made in 4:3. It cannot simply bend over backwards to fit humans' whims. We humans must bend to the truth.

I can only respectfuly disagree. Saying that is like saying "you can't take the pickles and onions out of your quarter pounder because that's not how it was made." At the end of the day Dragonball and every other show is for entertainment, it's not there to be some sacred gem. If a person prefers to watch it in cropped 16:9 they have every human right to do so. Saying there shouldn't be an option because you like to watch it how it was originally reminds me of an analogy of homophobes that went something like this

I was at Subway and the dude in front of me ordered a sandwich that was different to the one I was going to order and it made me angry.

[Kendamu]

I see your point, but your analogy is flawed.

Sandwiches and homosexuals aren't losing anything vital to their experiences if you hold the onions.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Z was made in 4:3. It cannot simply bend over backwards to fit humans' whims. We humans must bend to the truth.

I can only respectfuly disagree. Saying that is like saying "you can't take the pickles and onions out of your quarter pounder because that's not how it was made." At the end of the day Dragonball and every other show is for entertainment, it's not there to be some sacred gem. If a person prefers to watch it in cropped 16:9 they have every human right to do so. Saying there shouldn't be an option because you like to watch it how it was originally reminds me of an analogy of homophobes that went something like this

I was at Subway and the dude in front of me ordered a sandwich that was different to the one I was going to order and it made me angry.

I ask for my hamburgers to be made plain, so they were always like that. I'm not asking for a hamburger made with mustard to suddenly become a hamburger that never-ever had mustard on it in the first place.

Your analogies make no sense. Not to mention you just compared me to a homophobe for no real credible reason.

[Ringworm128]

I never said YOU were a homophobe I was just comparing the "people shouldn't have the option to watch a show how they want because the way it's enjoyed should be set in stone". "I watch it in 4:3 you can't watch it in 16:9" is hardly different to "I'm straight and everyone else should be too!"

Basically, if you don't like the show the way it is, you probably shouldn't be watching it.

Going back to food, that's like telling someone to stop eating vanilla ice cream because they prefer to eat it with chocolate sauce.

[JulieYBM]

Basically, if you don't like the show the way it is, you probably shouldn't be watching it.

Going back to food, that's like telling someone to stop eating vanilla ice cream because they prefer to eat it with chocolate sauce.

The vanilla ice cream ceases to be vanilla ice cream when you add chocolate sauce to it, just as water ceases to be water when you add Kool-Aid powder into it. Your argument is invalid.

[Ringworm128]

No the vanilla ice cream becomes vanilla ice cream with chocolate sauce. You can even still taste the vanilla provided you don't mix the sauce in. And even if it did become something different that still doesn't mean the person should stop eating it. It's why the "if you like the dub of DBZ over the original then you should watch a different show instead" argument annoys me beyond words.

[JulieYBM]

No the vanilla ice cream becomes vanilla ice cream with chocolate sauce. You can even still taste the vanilla provided you don't mix the sauce in. And even if it did become something different that still doesn't mean the person should stop eating it.

No, it becomes something different. Just like cropping and shitting all over the Dragon Ball Z film stops being Dragon Ball Z. The difference is people have the good sense to not call 'vanilla ice cream with chocolate sauce' by 'vanilla ice cream', rather than pretend it's the same thing. This is something FUNimation and other licensees like to try to ignore with their legal rights to change art but sell it as if it were no different, but luckily that sort of nonsense doesn't play in the realm of fact.

Dragon Ball Z was made in the past. It is a very specific, set number of items. You're comparing it to vanilla ice cream in general, taking no care into considering the fact that trillions of servings of vanilla ice cream have existed. No bowl of vanilla ice cream is the same, just as no performance of a play is the same. The 1989 Dragon Ball Z cartoon is always the same. It doesn't change. To fall back on an old adage, Dragon Ball Z simply 'is'. To expect it to change to human whim is folly. Humans, however, have the capacity to grow and adapt. The past has no such luxury.

[PhoenixEX]

All i'm seeing here is apples & oranges.
Dragon Ball Z was originally made in 4:3, and it should release in 4:3.
Nobody should put down those that prefer a 16:9 release though, that's really just childish behavior. They have every right to pick 16:9 if they please. Freedom of speech! even though we're slowly loosing that...
Like I said before though, it should release in 4:3, and to those that prefer the 16:9 version, there's the zoom button. It practically does the cropping for you.
Everybody wins.

[penguintruth]

You guys are making me hungry.

[Corpsecreate]

All i'm seeing here is apples & oranges.
Dragon Ball Z was originally made in 4:3, and it should release in 4:3.
Nobody should put down those that prefer a 16:9 release though, that's really just childish behavior. They have every right to pick 16:9 if they please. Freedom of speech! even though we're slowly loosing that...
Like I said before though, it should release in 4:3, and to those that prefer the 16:9 version, there's the zoom button. It practically does the cropping for you.
Everybody wins.

Ok I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet so I'm gonna step in. First and foremost, I believe the show should be displayed in its designed aspect ratio (4:3) but I can also understand why someone would like to see it in 16:9. You guys have argued that they should just release it at 4:3 and if theres people that want it at 16:9 then they can just use the zoom function on their TV to achieve it. This satisfies both parties right? Well not quite.

The reason for this is because if you just zoom in your image to get 16:9, you have a lot less visible picture than if FUNimation themselves made it 16:9. This is because they have the entire scanned frame visible to them and can adjust the zoom of the full frame to include more picture at 16:9 than a consumer could. Its a bit hard to explain but basically what I'm saying is that if FUNimation releases the show in 16:9, you will see a LOT more picture than if a consumer zoomed in a 4:3 version of the show on their TV. If you compare the Orange Bricks with a cropped 16:9 Dragon Box, you will see what I mean.



Look how much image is lost on the top/left/right on the dbox when compared with the orange bricks.

[Gaffer Tape]

I understand what you mean, but strictly speaking, selective cropping does not give you any more picture than straight center cropping. It just gives you a different picture. And it might be a better picture, but, regardless, the picture is still going to be less and the framing more cramped than what was intended. Granted, I have a hard time believing that those who so desperately want to lose 20% of their picture are really that discriminating about what the final product looks like, but I'll go ahead and not immediately assume that...

As for other claims of "elitism," etc., I admit I'm never going to waver in any form on the subject of film preservation. As JulieYBM so eloquently put it, humans have the capacity for change. The past does not. History, be it written history, recorded history, art history, or film history does not and should not be changed to be more palatable to the masses. It is what it is. And seeing as how we've moved past the days of having to have a "Fullscreen" and "Widescreen" release of movies, it's rather sad that it turns out we didn't learn our lesson at all and are now doing the same thing in reverse. So if you must, call me "elitist" or any other name you'd like because if being elitist means I can't tolerate the willful and gleeful destruction of framing to fit someone else's TV because they have such an aversion to any part of their screen matching the color of the border of their TV, then I'd much rather be "elitist" than one of the "unwashed masses" or whatever the opposite of an "elitist" is. I'm really not sure.

I also concur with JulieYBM's argument against the idea that preventing the mutilation of the image as being analogous to both ice cream and homophobia. Those analogies simply don't work. As JulieYBM said, it's not saying someone can't have vanilla ice cream without chocolate syrup. It's saying you can't take ice cream that already has chocolate syrup in it and remove it to be plain vanilla ice cream anymore. And it's not even remotely analogous to saying a gay man can't take a male mate. It's saying that a gay man can't take somebody's wife as a male mate. If you want plain vanilla ice cream, get a bowl of plain vanilla ice cream and enjoy the hell out of it. If you want a gay man, then, by God, get the best gay man you can get. And if you want a 16:9 show, then watch a 16:9 show. There are plenty of awesome ones created with your TV in mind. There's even the broadcast version and Japanese DVD version of Dragon Ball Kai! But you can't force chocolate sauce into vanilla ice cream. You can't make a straight woman a gay man. And... well, you get the gist.

[Ringworm128]

The thing is that if they had the OPTION to go from 16:9 people could still have it in 4:3 thus preserving the sacred holyness of a Japanese kids cartoon while the people who want to watch it in 16:9 can do so.

[OutlawTorn]

If a person prefers to watch it in cropped 16:9 they have every human right to do so.

Actually, no. They do not have a "right" to watch anything in any way other than how it is presented. A viewer does not have the right to call up a TV station and demand they air pre-HD programming in 16:9 because they have an OCD about the picture filling the entire screen on their widescreen TV.

I wouldn't be opposed to letting people choose which aspect ratio they would like to watch via Blu-ray, but the original 4:3 must be included in any event, just as the original Japanese language version must be included.

[Ringworm128]

I never said that 16:9 should be the default I said it should be an option if we could only choose from only one aspect ratio I personally would go with 4:3.

[Cipher]

I understand what you mean, but strictly speaking, selective cropping does not give you any more picture than straight center cropping. It just gives you a different picture. And it might be a better picture, but, regardless, the picture is still going to be less and the framing more cramped than what was intended. Granted, I have a hard time believing that those who so desperately want to lose 20% of their picture are really that discriminating about what the final product looks like, but I'll go ahead and not immediately assume that...

While this is true, it's not quite an accurate statement when you're talking about FUNimation's season sets or, I believe, Kai's Japanese television broadcast, compared to 4:3 releases. Working with the full, open-matte images means they are getting more material in their 16:9 cuts. There's more image horizontally and, to accommodate that, the entire picture is slightly zoomed out/smaller. Notice how you're getting more both horizontally and vertically on the season set shot compared to the cropped Dragon Box.

That said, I don't buy that there has to be a live-and-let-live attitude when it comes to talking about aspect ratio, as if there were two differing but equally viable options. Dragon Ball is a fairly simple show, mostly center-frame, and made hastily on a week-to-week basis in an age where series weren't even intended for complete home releases. In that regard, I'm not going to pretend that cropping Dragon Ball's aspect ratio is quite as artistically offensive as the old plan-and-scan releases of serious, director-driven films. It is, for the most part, completely watchable in 16:9, and even with a center-crop, you aren't losing any subtext or intent by it.

But it's still not the intended image, and it's still never going to look as good. People favoring a crop simply because it fits their widescreen televisions need to ask themselves if they would, going back to it now, favor crops of widescreen films to fit a 4:3 television. And I'm guessing their answers would be "No," because by and large we recognize that that's not an acceptable solution, not an enjoyable way to watch films, and not representative of the filmmaker's intent. There was a reason pan-and-scan existed, and it's understandable -- standard television sizes have grown considerably over the years, and there was a time in the dawn of video releases where watching a letterboxed film on most TVs would've been an exercise in 90-minute squinting.

We're passed that now, and there's no reason to want an image in anything other than its original frame. To those complaining of "black bars," or whatever else, I ask, again, if they'd favor pan-and-scan on a 4:3 television. They must be used to seeing letter-boxing all the time anyway, because many movies are still shot and released in wider aspect ratios than 16:9. I don't see why it's any different when 1:33.1 is on display. If you're watching a show made prior to the mid-2000s, you just need to expect 4:3. Embrace it. It's how the show was always meant to look.