Success of a failure... dissecting FUNi's Z dub

[ABED]

What's equivalent to the Japanese counterpart is fairly subjective. What if someone doesn't care for the Japanese actor? I do agree that the casts should have seasoned casts, but being equal to their Japanese counterpart is impossible to measure.

Is it essentially a straight forward action program without a lot of nuance?

It's not complex like Breaking Bad, but your quote makes it seem like you think it's just a generic action show without personality.

[Ajay]

What's equivalent to the Japanese counterpart is fairly subjective. What if someone doesn't care for the Japanese actor? I do agree that the casts should have seasoned casts, but being equal to their Japanese counterpart is impossible to measure.

I don't mean in terms of how they sound, I think it's fine to change an accent or characterise a voice slightly for a dub as long as it works. For example, I don't mind Oolong at all in English. I meant more in terms of acting quality. It's well known that the actors and actresses cast for the Japanese version were very well seasoned and experienced whereas the initial Funi casting were mostly new actors who have grown over time.

[ABED]

What's equivalent to the Japanese counterpart is fairly subjective. What if someone doesn't care for the Japanese actor? I do agree that the casts should have seasoned casts, but being equal to their Japanese counterpart is impossible to measure.

I don't mean in terms of how they sound, I think it's fine to change an accent or characterise a voice slightly for a dub as long as it works. For example, I don't mind Oolong at all in English. I meant more in terms of acting quality. It's well known that the actors and actresses cast for the Japanese version were very well seasoned and experienced whereas the initial Funi casting were mostly new actors who have grown over time.

Still, I don't think "equivalent to their japanese counterpart" is neccessary. Just being a good actor and right for the part is enough.

I'd also like to make a general point to no one in particular that adapting isn't a science. There are a lot of right ways, and a lot of wrong ways to do so. I think some sub fans can be a bit nitpicky when they discuss proper adaptations and if isn't done their way, it's completely wrong. Take Kami for instance. Should it be translated as "God" or do they keep it as "Kami" but still convey that it's a position of importance and not a name? I think as long as the adaptation is as good as Kai or Movies 1-3 then it shows me that they care.

[Ajay]

What's equivalent to the Japanese counterpart is fairly subjective. What if someone doesn't care for the Japanese actor? I do agree that the casts should have seasoned casts, but being equal to their Japanese counterpart is impossible to measure.

I don't mean in terms of how they sound, I think it's fine to change an accent or characterise a voice slightly for a dub as long as it works. For example, I don't mind Oolong at all in English. I meant more in terms of acting quality. It's well known that the actors and actresses cast for the Japanese version were very well seasoned and experienced whereas the initial Funi casting were mostly new actors who have grown over time.

Still, I don't think "equivalent to their japanese counterpart" is neccessary. Just being a good actor and right for the part is enough.

Yeah, that's what I mean but if if you're not giving a performance as good as the original voice then there's a problem. That's all I mean.

[ABED]

Still, I don't think "equivalent to their japanese counterpart" is neccessary. Just being a good actor and right for the part is enough.

Yeah, that's what I mean but if if you're not giving a performance as good as the original voice then there's a problem. That's all I mean.

But that's so subjective. Someone might hear a performance and think it's better whereas someone else might not. It's better that the director not go for comparison, and just try to get the best performance they can from the actor.

[penguintruth]

It's not complex like Breaking Bad, but your quote makes it seem like you think it's just a generic action show without personality.

I don't want to be accused of "taking a silly action show so seriously".

But then look where I am.

[Metalwario64]

Originally, they were going for a Snake like voice.

Why'd you capitalize Snake? Makes me think of David Hayter voicing Freeza.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I personally don't see the point in holding a grudge against somebody for preferring the dub. I just respectfully disagree with people who love the changes FUNimation made. It's not as though DBZ fandom is a ranked society, and someone is a "better" fan for liking the original Japanese version.

Nor, for that matter, do I hold a grudge against FUNimation. Perhaps if I was behind closed doors and knew what they knew, saw the numbers they were dealing with, knew the budget they were working with, listening to what the network censors were telling them, and listening to what Toei was telling them, I could be in a position to hold a grudge. But since I don't know what they knew, I just consider DBZ's dub a "minor bummer." Even more minor now that the Kai dub exists.

[Gokuden]

The original Ocean Dub was poetry, it was that good. Anyone who disagrees is entitled to their opinion, but you have recognize the comedic value in the voices, the translation, the tone, the music, the love.

[Ringworm128]

Saying the Funimation dub isn't DB because it has a different tone and different interpretations of the charactes is like saying Brave And The Bold or the 60's series isn't Batman because they have a different tone.

[Kamiccolo9]

Saying the Funimation dub isn't DB because it has a different tone and different interpretations of the charactes is like saying Brave And The Bold or the 60's series isn't Batman because they have a different tone.

Have you read any of the 50's/60's Batman comics? The tone isn't as different as you might think.

[Ajay]

Saying the Funimation dub isn't DB because it has a different tone and different interpretations of the charactes is like saying Brave And The Bold or the 60's series isn't Batman because they have a different tone.

Not really, those are tonally designed to be as they are from scratch. They didn't take nor ruin anything existing. The Funi dub did.
It's the reason why no one really cares that Dragon Ball SD is a meh reimagining because it doesn't pretend to be the original.

[ABED]

Saying the Funimation dub isn't DB because it has a different tone and different interpretations of the charactes is like saying Brave And The Bold or the 60's series isn't Batman because they have a different tone.

DB is what it is. It's a finite story. The characters have specific personalities, and were all written by one author. Any other interpretation aren't Toriyama's characters. Batman is an on going comic book that has had multiple authors, gone through multiple decades and doesn't have much in terms of continuity. The only thing that hasn't changed is Bruce seeing his parents gunned down. Batman has a beginning and an infinite middle.

you have recognize the comedic value in the voices

Not all the voices were funny. I'd say most of the voices were excellent.

[Ringworm128]

Saying the Funimation dub isn't DB because it has a different tone and different interpretations of the charactes is like saying Brave And The Bold or the 60's series isn't Batman because they have a different tone.

Not really, those are tonally designed to be as they are from scratch. They didn't take nor ruin anything existing. The Funi dub did.
It's the reason why no one really cares that Dragon Ball SD is a meh reimagining because it doesn't pretend to be the original.

Personally I think you could use that to say that the dub isn't accurate not to say it's a different series. Even if it does use the original anime as a base it's still it's own thing and it's still DB telling someone they aren't a DB fan because they like the dub is no different to saying someones not a Mario fan because they prefer Paper Mario and Mario Kart over the 2D and 3D platformers. Or saying someone doesn't like the Under Pressure or Super Freak backing track because they prefer it in Ice Ice Baby or U Can't Touch This.

[penguintruth]

No, it's not up to the dub studio to radically alter the show. Legally they may have the right to, but from an artistic perspective, it's immoral. It's not their job to make a new show, it's to provide dialogue that reflects the intent of the original version, if not always to the letter.

There are no different interpretations to be had. This isn't Superman or Batman, who've been written by different writers for over seventy years.

[theoriginalbilis]

I have never held any kind of grudge against FUNimation or their voice actors, even when the edited dubs were all we had. I do however, look back at the FUNI Z dub like a fledgling child (the Saban/Season 3 dub) who has grown up into a responsible adult (video games/Kai dubs.)

When they started out, they didn't make the smartest decisions and didn't have a lot of money or resources, but over time they grew and adapted, learning many lessons, and as a result, many great things happened afterwards as a result of FUNi's release of DBZ. I don't necessarily respect the dub itself, but the fact that DBZ's success led to them releasing and dubbing several of the most popular anime ever is a good thing.

[penguintruth]

If they didn't have the resources to do it right the first time, they never should have taken on the project to start with.

Let us also remember they had ample opportunities to change the quality and didn't take it.

[ABED]

If they didn't have the resources to do it right the first time, they never should have taken on the project to start with.

Let us also remember they had ample opportunities to change the quality and didn't take it.

And let someone else make that money?

[Ringworm128]

No, it's not up to the dub studio to radically alter the show. Legally they may have the right to, but from an artistic perspective, it's immoral. It's not their job to make a new show, it's to provide dialogue that reflects the intent of the original version, if not always to the letter.

There are no different interpretations to be had. This isn't Superman or Batman, who've been written by different writers for over seventy years.

Tell me where it actually says that dubs HAVE TO be accurate. Tell me where it says in black and white or carved in stone "thou shalt not mistranslate". And what makes Superman and Batman so special? Will it be considered fine to change things after the series falls into so many hands, or after a set amount of years?

[ABED]

No, it's not up to the dub studio to radically alter the show. Legally they may have the right to, but from an artistic perspective, it's immoral. It's not their job to make a new show, it's to provide dialogue that reflects the intent of the original version, if not always to the letter.

There are no different interpretations to be had. This isn't Superman or Batman, who've been written by different writers for over seventy years.

Tell me where it actually says that dubs HAVE TO be accurate. Tell me where it says in black and white or carved in stone "thou shalt not mistranslate". And what makes Superman and Batman so special? Will it be considered fine to change things after the series falls into so many hands, or after a set amount of years?

There's no "shalt not", but why would you license something and not keep it as close as possible?

Batman and Superman aren't special, they're different. It's an ongoing series. Dragon Ball is finite and only has one author. The characters aren't up for interpretation. Goku is a kid raised in the mountains and his speech should reflect that. That's not up for debate. It is what it is and there's no getting around it unless you change him but then the writing and doesn't match the art.