Success of a failure... dissecting FUNi's Z dub

[penguintruth]

First, it's apples and oranges. DB is the single vision of an author, Akira Toriyama. Toei changed some of it, true, but they made the show. Funimation didn't make anything. Batman and Superman? They may have been created by people, but they're not a single vision. Completely different situations. If Funimation wants to make a DB show, let them open an animation studio and draw Goku's arm a couple hundred times.

My point is artistic integrity. No rules have to be carved in stone. It's a respect for the material.

[Ringworm128]

If they didn't have the resources to do it right the first time, they never should have taken on the project to start with.

If Funimation hadn't picked up DBZ back then it would have probably been picked up by someone like 4kids, it's a kids anime and most companies would have done the same as Funimation in order to try and squeeze every dollar out of it. DBZ was like a hot girl walking through a run down town full of thugs, if one group didn't grab her and take her down the ally way the other group would have. In a sense DBZ was a sacrificial lamb for Funimation because through it they would get the resources to produce much better dubs and many decent to great voice actors got their start in DBZ. Not to mention it helped anime's popularity in the west.

[ABED]

If they didn't have the resources to do it right the first time, they never should have taken on the project to start with.

If Funimation hadn't picked up DBZ back then it would have probably been picked up by someone like 4kids, it's a kids anime and most companies would have done the same as Funimation in order to try and squeeze every dollar out of it. DBZ was like a hot girl walking through a run down town full of thugs, if one group didn't grab her and take her down the ally way the other group would have.

I agree, but it was FUNi's responsibility to treat her better. Okay, you don't have the resources to pay the Ocean cast or for better box art, the least they could've done is translate the show better and cast it better. One of the problems is they wanted the new cast to immitate the old cast. What they should've done is cast actors appropriate for the roles. In other words, no granny Freeza.

[Ringworm128]

What voices are appropriate for the characters is entirely a matter of opinion for example I think Linda Young is a great voice for Freeza yet I think Ian Corlett was a bad choice for Goku. However there are many who think vice versa. Just like how there are many who consider Nozawa the perfect Goku and others who say the same about Schemmel. And if by "appropriate" you mean "like the Japanese version" then that wouldn't have worked back then. Going from Peter Kalamis to Cockatooku would be WAAAAAAAY more jarring then going to Green Schemmel.

[penguintruth]

I can (perhaps) forgive them for the dubs of the first two seasons, to a degree. But then they had an opportunity with the third to do things right and didn't. When they redubbed the first two seasons they still used scripts from the original dub most of the time.

They only finally did the material justice with the Kai dub. How many years after they first dubbed DBZ? How many years?

And yet, somehow those first three DBZ movies were dubbed well. They actually HAD the ability to do things right. And they didn't take it until over a decade later!

No. I'm sorry, but "They were just starting out" only works for so long. It's not even like they were the first people to ever dub an anime. Even Manga Entertainment's early dubs, out at the same time DBZ was first dubbed, while not great, were still superior.

[ABED]

What voices are appropriate for the characters is entirely a matter of opinion for example I think Linda Young is a great voice for Freeza yet I think Ian Corlett was a bad choice for Goku. However there are many who think vice versa. Just like how there are many who consider Nozawa the perfect Goku and others who say the same about Schemmel. And if by "appropriate" you mean "like the Japanese version" then that wouldn't have worked back then. Going from Peter Kalamis to Cockatooku would be WAAAAAAAY more jarring then going to Green Schemmel.

She's completely inappropriate. She didn't get his personality at all, nor the fact that he's a HE. No, I don't think appropriate is synonymous with "the japanese version" I mean the voice matches the character. A lot of this could've been aided by a director that understood the characters and story. Nozawa was appropriate because her performance conveyed "naive, purehearted, hick and strong". Seeing as how Toriyama approved of Nozawa's casting, I'd say that's a good indication that the casting director(s) knew what they were doing.

[WesMan23]

It really is all opinion. But, a lot of you guys are correct. It was created by one man, with only one true interpretation. FUNi changed many interpretations that Toriyama had, unfortunately. Did it benefit them? Obviously. They're a bustling company today, and it got their foot in the door. Did it benefit us? Yes, in the manner that it introduced Z to the mainstream audience, but it failed to faithfully adapt a great story of adventure. At least they are realizing their errors today, but there will always be a scar on the English dub of it, because of how they treated it. It's kind of like this... FUNimation, in the mid-late 90s, was a new father, never taking care of a child before, and this child wasn't exactly the result of star parenting, but he was still the cool, popular kid in school, and everybody loved him, except for the few that thought he was a fake. As FUNimation "fathered" more "children", their parenting skills increased. DBZ went to live with his "mother for a bit" and the FUNiFather got visitation rights (film, video games, GT dubs), and started to show that he could actually do this "parenting" thing so-to-say, and had a talk with DBZ about all he did wrong, and begged for a second chance, and this resulted in Kai.

So basically, FUNi was a new, not-so-great father (original Z dub), who, through experience with more children (other dubs they did), felt like his first son wasn't all he could be, so he went back and went on to finally raise him to be a good son, true to himself, and not trying to be someone he wasn't, just to be popular (Kai). But Z's friends still remember him as that popular kid in school, that everybody loved, but now he's more of a true person, so a lot of people don't like him, despite him being a better person overall. He changed, they did not. Z should have been raised right the first time, but he wasn't. Even though he turned out fine, there was a time where he wasn't who he was supposed to be.

[ABED]

Did those changes benefit FUNi or did the child succeed in spite of the parent?

[Ringworm128]

But Funimation were trying everything to get DBZ as successful as possible. "It would have still been successful if they did it accurately." Maybe, but it was a risk Funimation wasn't willing to take. They probably saw how most animes with accurate dubs were cult classics at best and decided it isn't worth trying. And it could be worse, at least after 99 you could easily get the Japanese version. Imagine if it was like Yu Gi Oh were you have a choice of 4kids or fansubs even to this day.

[ABED]

But Funimation were trying everything to get DBZ as successful as possible. "It would have still been successful if they did it accurately." Maybe, but it was a risk Funimation wasn't willing to take. They probably saw how most animes with accurate dubs were cult classics at best and decided it isn't worth trying.

In interviews, Gen seemed rather ignorant about the accuracy of the scripts. How many shows were of DBZ's popularity even in japan?

They tried "everything"? You mean a green voice cast, cheap recording equipment, and screenshots for packaging? It seems more like they tried the cheapest way possible to make it profitable for them.

[penguintruth]

I'm supposed to feel bad that doing things accurately might've been a risk?

What about when they started doing things in house? Was it still risky when dubs like Cowboy Bebop were out there? Was it still risky when they redubbed the first two seasons?

I guess it stopped being risky to be accurate a few years ago when they did the Kai dub.

"But if they didn't do it somebody else would have!" Come on. The fact is, Funimation did what they did and nobody's to blame but them.

[Ringworm128]

Yeah but shows like Cowboy Bebop are only really cult classics, if you pulled someone of the street there would be far more chance that they would know DBZ is. To find someone who knows about Cowboy Bebop you would probably have to go to an anime con. They only decided to eventually do things accurately because DBZ was that big now they figured they could be more risky.
The screen shot packaging wasn't that bad, did you really expect them to come up with a bagilion different artworks, especially back then? And most of the covers looked alright since they picked cool looking shots.

[penguintruth]

Pretty sad that those DVD singles were better quality than the Season Sets.

[ABED]

The screen shot packaging wasn't that bad, did you really expect them to come up with a bagilion different artworks, especially back then? And most of the covers looked alright since they picked cool looking shots.

They were cheap, and yes, I did expect them to come up with different artworks. I don't think it's too much to ask to get professional looking packaging. Pioneer did for their singles and would've continued had they continued that relationship. I should also add that it annoyed me that they didn't have at least 4 or 5 episodes per disc.

[Ringworm128]

Didn't they just use old Japanese promotional artwork? How is that any better?

[ABED]

Didn't they just use old Japanese promotional artwork? How is that any better?

It doesn't look as lazy.

[TheBlackPaladin]

The fact is, Funimation did what they did and nobody's to blame but them.

Ehh....and Toei.

They're not innocent here either. Their primary concern with DBZ was always in seeing ratings transform into money, preferably through purchased merchandise. They signed off on everything FUNimation did in an effort to make sure that happened. It's rather interesting how this specific aspect worked out, though....in Japan, the anime was made to sell toys, but over here, the anime itself is the main product of interest.

There's no "shalt not", but why would you license something and not keep it as close as possible?

In the case of DBZ, because they felt the changes would make the show more financially profitable, which was the main goal of the show to begin with.

[Rocketman]

...the anime had Freeza kill SS Goku?

[Ringworm128]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/rumor/characters/

[Hellspawn28]

DBZ would still be popular even with a dub that stay close to the Japanese script. DBZ had fast pace action and shit gets blow up. Kids love those stuff which is why movies like Transformers and Resident Evil keep on getting terrible sequels since kids love action.

If Funimation hadn't picked up DBZ back then it would have probably been picked up by someone like 4kids

Maybe Viz would dubbed it or Saban would dub the show themselves without Funi's help. Saban would have dubbed DBZ much worst then Funi did since they have done changes to Japanese shows on the same level as 4kids did. They bastardized Kamen Rider Black RX into Masked Rider in my opinion and fans didn't like their Americanization on Digimon as well.