Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

Krillin: 280,000
Tenshinhan: 230,000
Yamcha: 90,000
This is their best IMO.

[Kamiccolo9]

Krillin: 280,000
Tenshinhan: 230,000
Yamcha: 90,000
This is their best IMO.

No love for Chiaotzu, Yajorobe, and Roshi?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Krillin: 280,000
Tenshinhan: 230,000
Yamcha: 90,000
This is their best IMO.

No love for Chiaotzu, Yajorobe, and Roshi?

Fine fine
Chaozu: 15,000
Yajirobe: 970
Master Roshi(Old): 139
Master Roshi(Young): 180

[Mjb1985]

Gero seems to imply that Piccolo's Suppressed Power would be around Gohan + Tenshinhan + Kuririn's power.

I think Piccolo's Suppressed Power isn't terribly far off from the Base Saiyans.

So I think the humans are probably like 25% of the Base Saiyans power or so. Incredibly strong.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't see how that's implied.

[Mjb1985]

Gero thinks that if he absorbs Piccolo again he can beat Vegeta.

Gero thinks that if he absorbs Gohan, Tenshinhan, Kuririn he can beat Vegeta.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gero thinks that if he absorbs Piccolo again he can beat Vegeta.

Gero thinks that if he absorbs Gohan, Tenshinhan, Kuririn he can beat Vegeta.

No... he thinks if he absorbs everyone's energy he can beat Vegeta. He also never bothers to read Piccolo's, or anyone's, energy in the manga so he doesn't even know.

[Mjb1985]

Yea sorry about that I just read it over now.

Gero says if he absorbs all of their energy he can defeat Vegeta.

All is Piccolo, Gohan, Tenshinhan, Yamcha

He the absorbs Piccolo to which he seems to think that if he absorbs him again he can defeat Vegeta as well.


So Tenshinhan + Gohan + Kuririn are roughly on par with Piccolo ( Suppressed )

Same thing as I said before but I forgot Gero included Piccolo in his first suggestion.

[RandomGuy96]

And I have Gotenks below Fat Boo because Daizenshuu 7 says he surpassed Vegeta during his RoSaT training. I interpret that as his Super Saiyan < Veggie's Super Saiyan 2 prior to the RoSaT training. I also don't think the fusion dance has a consistent multiplier and so Goku's claims aren't valid without proof, of which we are given none.

That bit of info from the Daizenshuu just seems outright wrong IMO. Goku states that SS Gotenks pre-ROSAT will be enough to beat Fat Buu and it's never contradicted, and Piccolo senses SS Gotenks' power and has no doubt that it will be enough to beat Fat Buu (he only expresses concern that Gotenks wasted his time before running off to fight), despite also sensing Majin Vegeta (and seeing him get demolished). SS Gotenks (pre-ROSAT) is also sensed from another realm if I'm remembering it right, while Fat Buu and Majin Vegeta weren't.

Everyone looks completely brain dead if Gotenks pre-ROSAT is weaker than Vegeta.

Fine fine
Chaozu: 15,000
Yajirobe: 970
Master Roshi(Old): 139
Master Roshi(Young): 180

Why did such a massive gap open up between Tien and Chiaotzu? In the last levels we got for them, Chiaotzu was exactly 1/3 of Tien, and they did the exact same training after that, so nothing should change in terms of how they stacked up to each other.

Oh, and young Roshi is too weak. He fought and killed the spawn of a young King Piccolo.

[Mjb1985]

Yea whenever the Daiz contradicts the manga I feel it's best to go with the manga for sure.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Chaozu doesn't really do anything.... I don't think Young Roshi is too weak at all. Piccolo's demon spawn vary in power.

[RandomGuy96]

None of the humans really did anything after Krillin cut off Freeza's tail (except Tien, but that had nothing to do with strength). And there's still no reason the gap would change when they did the same training. IMO, EoZ Chiaotzu is stronger than Yamcha, on part of being 1/3 of Tien...

We've seen exactly one demon spawn of young Piccolo. Declaring him atypical for no reason and putting Roshi only at the level of someone that spawn stomped doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Yea whenever the Daiz contradicts the manga I feel it's best to go with the manga for sure.

I like to do some stretching, but I feel this bit of info is completely incompatible with what Piccolo sensed from Gotenks. I have SS Gotenks pre stronger than Fat Buu. Not much stronger at all, since Goku called it "a nasty gamble", but still strong enough that Piccolo and Goku don't look completely brain dead.

SS Gotenks pre- 15,000,000,000
Fat Buu- 13-14,000,000,000 (depends on if SS2 Gohan filling up half the meter means anything)
Majin Vegeta- 10,000,000,000

[TheMightyOzaru]

That's your opinion. Chaozu just watches Tenshinhan as far as I'm concerned. Piccolo spawned a lot of demons. I would imagine making a ton of them reduces the power of each of them. That Daiz statement actually says he surpassed Vegeta and everyone else. It just uses Vegeta to dance around the fact that he surpassed Goku, because that's what the Daiz do.

[RandomGuy96]

That Daiz statement actually says he surpassed Vegeta and everyone else.

Said next to a picture of base Gotenks.

It just uses Vegeta to dance around the fact that he surpassed Goku, because that's what the Daiz do.

Yep. So that statement isn't completely wrong, I just interpret it as an indirect way of saying he surpassed Goku (part of the "others") after he unlocked SS3.

[Saiga]

I don't care what Goku says about Gotenks, he hasn't even seen the fusion. And Piccolo IS braindead - remember when he thought base Gotenks might be able to defeat Evil Boo? Gotenks has done nothing to prove his strength outside of Super Saiyan 3.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't care what Goku says about Gotenks, he hasn't even seen the fusion

But he has seen the fusion of weaker people and the power of Goten and Trunks, so he would be able to estimate.

And Piccolo IS braindead - remember when he thought base Gotenks might be able to defeat Evil Boo? Gotenks has done nothing to prove his strength outside of Super Saiyan 3.

Piccolo thinking that was a set-up to a gag, and was later retconned out anyway (Piccolo admits that he didn't think that even Super Saiyan Gotenks could beat Super Buu). It's also not impossible in the least to have him accurate here, by having base Gotenks > any ki sensed before. I don't have it like that btw, but I do have Super Saiyan Gotenks stronger than Fat Buu, otherwise it's just dumb. Piccolo would literally have to forgot sensing Majin Vegeta a few minutes ago to think that Gotenks (pre-ROSAT) is incredible can beat someone that Majin Vegeta can't... and that's just ridiculous, know what I mean? Piccolo thought that SS Gotenks would be able to beat Fat Buu, and unlike his base Gotenks > Super Buu line it was never retconned out or contradicted, and was in fact supported by Goku's statements and Gotenks being sensed from the Kaioshin realm.

Also, I keep hearing Fat Buu = twice as strong as SS2 Gohan. Is there any evidence that the amount of energy needed to revive Buu correlates with Buu's battle power? Doesn't Kaioshin say that Fat Buu will come out at half power if they release him before going on to the ship...? Because if there is evidence of this, it'd be awfully helpful in determining a lot of these levels.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ Gotenks is definitely stronger than Fat Buu as far as I'm concerned.

[Saiga]

No, I don't think it's possible to reliably estimate based on two completely different people using the technique. Especially when slight variations in the technique can produce incredibly different results. And Goku's not working with number estimates, but feelings of power. I don't put much stock into it.

I also don't buy the "Fat Boo = double SS2 Gohan" because I don't think energy and ki are the same thing. Fat Boo also powers up after being brought back, which is another reason I discount it.

[RandomGuy96]

No, I don't think it's possible to reliably estimate based on two completely different people using the technique. Especially when slight variations in the technique can produce incredibly different results. And Goku's not working with number estimates, but feelings of power. I don't put much stock into it.

You still have the issue of Piccolo sensing both Majin Vegeta and pre-ROSAT Gotenks, and concluding that only one of them had a chance against Dai Kaioshin Buu... and I don't wanna hear how being involved in a gag automatically makes everything he says null and void, as his line was retconned anyway, not to mention contradicted on the page, which is not the case here.

I also don't buy the "Fat Boo = double SS2 Gohan" because I don't think energy and ki are the same thing. Fat Boo also powers up after being brought back, which is another reason I discount it.

Good point... but I think I'm going to assume that he is anyway, simply because it fits and because, IIRC, Kaioshin said that if they blew up the ship and let Buu out after his ball had been filled to half, Buu would only be at half power. It's at least a little hint, you know? And that power being his initial power before power-ups makes no sense, as Initial Fatty > Dabura and SS2 Gohan was stated. On that note, I think I'm going to assume that Gohan was a SS2 the whole arc too, otherwise none of the comments after the tournament make a lick of sense...

I love talking about the Buu Saga. So confusing, yet that confusion is what spawned many interesting debates.

Also, another question: do you believe in Buuhan's statement that he's stronger than a hypothetical SS3 Gogeta?

[Kamiccolo9]

And that power being his initial power before power-ups makes no sense, as Initial Fatty > Dabura and SS2 Gohan was stated.

Gohan thought that he could beat initial Fat Buu. He didn't realize otherwise until Buu's power spiked when he attacked Dabura.