The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TheGmGoken]

BoG and M13 both want to convince you that Goku is better than Gohan. They shouldn't be taken as reliable.

Says the person who thinks Vegetto > SSG Goku

[Kamiccolo9]

BoG and M13 both want to convince you that Goku is better than Gohan. They shouldn't be taken as reliable.

Says the person who thinks Vegetto > Birsu when the creator said Birsu > Vegetto

He hasn't said that. He said that he had no problem with Beers being stronger than Vegetto. His problem was with SSJ God.

[TheGmGoken]

BoG and M13 both want to convince you that Goku is better than Gohan. They shouldn't be taken as reliable.

Says the person who thinks Vegetto > Birsu when the creator said Birsu > Vegetto

He hasn't said that. He said that he had no problem with Beers being stronger than Vegetto. His problem was with SSJ God.

Sir your PC must be blinder than a Dog sleeping on the sun while eating a yo-yo! I never said that! xD

[TheMightyOzaru]

He hasn't said that. He said that he had no problem with Beers being stronger than Vegetto. His problem was with SSJ God.

Sir your PC must be blinder than a Dog sleeping on the sun while eating a yo-yo! I never said that! xD

[Kamiccolo9]

He hasn't said that. He said that he had no problem with Beers being stronger than Vegetto. His problem was with SSJ God.

Sir your PC must be blinder than a Dog sleeping on the sun while eating a yo-yo! I never said that! xD

He does that.

[TheGmGoken]

He does that.

TheGmGoken wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
He hasn't said that. He said that he had no problem with Beers being stronger than Vegetto. His problem was with SSJ God.


Sir your PC must be blinder than a Dog sleeping on the sun while eating a yo-yo! I never said that! xD

I do that to kill the sub-topic. It confuses people and a new sub topic starts.

[mysticboy]

SSJ Gogeta (movie 12) vs. SSJ adult Gotenks (GT; after a few years of training)

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gogeta. Gotenks isn't any stronger as far as I'm concerned since Goten doesn't freakin train.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Shadow Dragon Arc seems to imply that all of the Saiyans are stronger than Majuub, who is stronger than anime Pure Buu. So a fusion of GT Goten and Trunks should be much stronger than Gogeta from movie 12.

[TheGmGoken]

Full Power SSJ4 Gogeta(No time limit) vs GT Vegetto SSJ3 Full power

[Draken]

Full Power SSJ4 Gogeta(No time limit) vs GT Vegetto SSJ3 Full power

They were very willing to fuse in GT for some reason, and since they never brought up Potara, I'll go with the fusions are actually equal in terms of power, just that Potara is the more perfect fusion, so Gogeta.

[TheGmGoken]

Full Power SSJ4 Gogeta(No time limit) vs GT Vegetto SSJ3 Full power

They were very willing to fuse in GT for some reason, and since they never brought up Potara, I'll go with the fusions are actually equal in terms of power, just that Potara is the more perfect fusion, so Gogeta.

Isn't it faster to just fuse than teleporting to Kai and get the Potaras. Plus it's DBGT to be honest. I doubt they would come up with that.

[Draken]

Full Power SSJ4 Gogeta(No time limit) vs GT Vegetto SSJ3 Full power

They were very willing to fuse in GT for some reason, and since they never brought up Potara, I'll go with the fusions are actually equal in terms of power, just that Potara is the more perfect fusion, so Gogeta.

Isn't it faster to just fuse than teleporting to Kai and get the Potaras. Plus it's DBGT to be honest. I doubt they would come up with that.

Kaioshin could go to them. Easier than doing a dance in full view anyways (on the second try). They could be like IF I DIE I DIE IN STYLE GIMME MAH EARRINGS.

[RandomGuy96]

Gogeta flicks him once, causing him to explode. I think that the difference between Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan 3 is even bigger than the difference between potara and dance fusion.

[Draken]

Gogeta flicks him once, causing him to explode. I think that the difference between Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan 3 is even bigger than the difference between potara and dance fusion.

Sounds painful LOL. What do you have for your personal multipliers?

[RandomGuy96]

Well, like I've said many times, I think that Super Saiyan 4 is a x40,000 multiplier based on the Baby fight, and the comparisons of Baby's forms to the Super Saiyan forms both visually and in the GT Perfect Files. So SS4 Gogeta would be 100 times stronger than SS3 Gogeta.

At the moment, for power level purposes, I think that the dance fusion is (A + B) x 10, though I may consider revising that later, while the potara fusion that resulted in Vegetto was (A + B) x 100. But these are all just basically baseless; the point is, I don't see why Vegetto needs to be over 100 times stronger than a hypothetical Gogeta to do what he did.

If I were to make hypothetical manga Gogeta weaker than Buuhan (as I think I'm going to do), to match up with Buuhan's predictions and the implications from the Daiz, then I'd of course have a smaller fusion multiplier, like (A + B) x 3, and so would of course have a "potara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fusion" rather than simply "potara >>>>>>> fusion" . But even going with that interpretation, which of course puts a huge gap between Vegetto and Gogeta, I don't think that he really needs to be 100 times stronger. A few dozen times stronger at most...

So yeah, based purely on estimates, speculation, and vague implications, I say that the difference between potara and fusion is less than x100, while the difference between SS3 and SS4 is x100.

That is unless you believe in the Goku x Vegeta formula. I personally don't.

[Draken]

I've rolled with some numbers, having Vegetto Goku x Vegeta would literally have SSJ Vegetto > SSJ4 Gogeta.

Goku and Vegeta = 100 mill.
Base Goku GT = 100 mill x 400 = 40 billion.

Base Vegetto = 10 quadrillion
SSJ Vegetto = 500 quadrillion
SSJ4 Goku GT = 1.6 quadrillion

So SSJ4 Goku would .32% of SSJ Vegetto...

Even having Goku and Vegeta as low as 10 million in the Buu saga wouldn't save SSJ4 Goku from being a small percentage of SSJ Vegetto.

Not to say it's not impossible for it to happen in the manga and that the dance multiplier in the manga could be the same as Potara :3. I still roll with Gogeta ~ Vegetto.

[RandomGuy96]

That would contradict just about everything we know about hypothetical Gogeta and the strength of the kids.

No, it really wouldn't. You're mistake is assuming that base GT Goku is only as strong as SS3 manga Goku; he is in fact far stronger than Buuhan in his first appearance and was implied to get 50 times stronger during the Black Star Saga. He was also implied to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan x 50. So yeah, you can easily have SS Vegetto ~ Baby Saga SS4 Goku with the Goku x Vegeta formula.

[Draken]

That would contradict just about everything we know about hypothetical Gogeta and the strength of the kids.

No, it really wouldn't. You're mistake is assuming that base GT Goku is only as strong as SS3 manga Goku; he is in fact far stronger than Buuhan in his first appearance and was implied to get 50 times stronger during the Black Star Saga. He was also implied to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan x 50. So yeah, you can easily have SS Vegetto ~ Baby Saga SS4 Goku with the Goku x Vegeta formula.

Maybe in your interpretation. I have never seen anyone say SSJ stacks on top of Ultimate.

Well with my numbers he's .32% of SSJ Vegetto. Get him 300x stronger.

[RandomGuy96]

No, that's not my interpretation. That's what's outright stated; Gohan never stopped training and still has his ultimate form in the movies, and Movie 13 is apparently canon to GT (doesn't Trunks still use Tapion's sword?). So either his ultimate form disappeared for no reason or his base IS his ultimate form.

I don't really wanna go through the number shennanigans again (mostly because, well, I already did that), but I'd like to point that Anime Pure Buu is "on a whole different level" than Buuhan, who is already stronger than his manga version by a mile, so that generally leaves a lot of room.