How do you describe his ki being cut in half then?RandomGuy96 wrote:Ah. Well I don't have him gaining a rage boost on top of the transformation anymore, except maybe during the final beam struggle, and only for a split second while Cell was distracted and off guard.
The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
except maybe during the final beam struggle, and only for a split second while Cell was distracted and off guard
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
SS Gohan was already stronger than Goku, and SS2 Gohan was also angry. Which means that Raged SS Gohan would be much stronger than SS Goku, since every time that Gohan was getting angry, he was getting much stronger.PerfectFreeza wrote:SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is only ''perhaps even greater than Gohan against Cell''.
Piccolo: “[Vegeta]’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…But then…Even Gohan has been killed by Majin Boo…Why is Majin Boo as [strong?] as this?…”
Since he is equal to Goku, Goku's power as SSJ1 isn't all that greater than FPSSJ Kid Gohan.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Oob vs SS3 Gotenks
Oob vs Ultimate Gohan
Oob: this Oob is after Goku's training, and after training on his own & have reached his limits. If you believe that Goku taught him Kaio-ken, he can use it. GT is ignored.
Gotenks: This is DBO Goten & Trunks. In DBO, Goten & Trunks became swordsmen & trained to their limits. So, this Gotenks is much stronger than he was as a kid, and has a sword.
Gohan: Same from Boo arc.
Oob vs Ultimate Gohan
Oob: this Oob is after Goku's training, and after training on his own & have reached his limits. If you believe that Goku taught him Kaio-ken, he can use it. GT is ignored.
Gotenks: This is DBO Goten & Trunks. In DBO, Goten & Trunks became swordsmen & trained to their limits. So, this Gotenks is much stronger than he was as a kid, and has a sword.
Gohan: Same from Boo arc.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I don't know how to determine the kind of potential Oob has. It's possible that he can reach Pure Boo's level but from that point on progresses as a normal human would (since he only "inherited" the strength that Pure Boo had) and so doesn't get much more powerful, or maybe he's like Piccolo and can get much stronger than his previous self could. Maybe Majins don't have much in the way of potential to get stronger anyway (barring absorption).
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I'm with you Saiga. I have no idea where to place Oob's power potentially.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
How much Kaioken is allowed? If it's up to 10, Gohan and Gotenks are done.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I don't see Oob having Kaioken.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
As much as you feel like. Depends on what you believe Goku passed him, and how strong Oob can become as a fighter.TheMightyOzaru wrote:How much Kaioken is allowed? If it's up to 10, Gohan and Gotenks are done.
Last edited by DBZGTKOSDH on Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Cell's kamehameha would have overwhelmed him in an instant if he were really just no rage boost SSJ level.RandomGuy96 wrote:except maybe during the final beam struggle, and only for a split second while Cell was distracted and off guard
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
That's pretty much exactly what happened. The beam struggle was incredibly short. Cell was overwhelming him with complete ease and didn't seem to be trying at all. He was smiling the entire time and right before Vegeta distracted him he said something like "Well, time to finish you".
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Yeah, people can often forget that the beam struggle was originally very short and one-sided in the manga. Gohan was clearly being overpowered, and only managed to force back out the power he needed to overcome Cell's blast and win in that one short moment when Cell was distracted.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Well Cell seemed to be holding back and Gohan was holding back as well. Him being injured isn't actually an issue imo.
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PerfectFreeza
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
While on the subject of Gohan, how would Freeza Saga Gohan(Post-Zenkai, non-enraged ) vs Second Form Freeza go?
Gohan seemed to able to push 3rd form Freeza into the ground with his Masenko and it's implied, that it wasn't his hidden power.
Gohan seemed to able to push 3rd form Freeza into the ground with his Masenko and it's implied, that it wasn't his hidden power.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Considering how confident Gohan looked after getting his zenkai, it makes me question if Piccolo was even needed at all. Gohan looked primed to whoop Freeza's butt.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Umm That's an implied rage boost.... To answer your question though, Gohan gets stomped.PerfectFreeza wrote:While on the subject of Gohan, how would Freeza Saga Gohan(Post-Zenkai, non-enraged ) vs Second Form Freeza go?
Gohan seemed to able to push 3rd form Freeza into the ground with his Masenko and it's implied, that it wasn't his hidden power.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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PerfectFreeza
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I don't think it was a rage boost.
Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P3.2
Context: as he blasts third form Freeza
Gohan: “Full power!”
Gohan isn't in frenzy, as the quote above indicates.
Freeza: “That’s strange…That squirt shouldn’t have had so much battle power…He’s become like a different person after returning to life from the brink of death…”
Freeza says, that the Zenkai increased Gohan's power drastically, not rage, which he experienced before, when Gohan beat him up in his 2nd form.
Piccolo: “He bounced that back, but…You’ve become strong, Gohan…I’m happy…”
Gohan: “B-but it wasn’t any use…I put all my force into that, but…It didn’t affect Freeza…”
Piccolo also commends Gohan, despite the fact, that he knows it's not Gohan's normal power, meaning it wasn't hidden power.Gohan again, also seems to be well aware of what he did.
Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P3.2
Context: as he blasts third form Freeza
Gohan: “Full power!”
Gohan isn't in frenzy, as the quote above indicates.
Freeza: “That’s strange…That squirt shouldn’t have had so much battle power…He’s become like a different person after returning to life from the brink of death…”
Freeza says, that the Zenkai increased Gohan's power drastically, not rage, which he experienced before, when Gohan beat him up in his 2nd form.
Piccolo: “He bounced that back, but…You’ve become strong, Gohan…I’m happy…”
Gohan: “B-but it wasn’t any use…I put all my force into that, but…It didn’t affect Freeza…”
Piccolo also commends Gohan, despite the fact, that he knows it's not Gohan's normal power, meaning it wasn't hidden power.Gohan again, also seems to be well aware of what he did.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Do you have the quote from Vegeta too? Where Gohan appears next to Vegeta ready to take on Freeza and Piccolo shows up?
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PerfectFreeza
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Vegeta: “Heh…Just as you’d expect of someone with Saiyan blood, after reviving his battle power has greatly risen…A-alright! Luck is turning our way just a little bit…”
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I'd be comfortable with that meaning he is above his previous enraged self. I'd probably go with this chain.
Piccolo >= Freeza ( Powered Up ) > Gohan ( Zenkai ) > Freeza ( Initial ) >= Gohan ( Enraged )
Numerically like this...
Piccolo ( Weighted ) 1,250,000
Freeza ( Powered Up ) 1,200,000
Gohan ( Zenkai ) 1,100,000
Freeza ( Initial ) 1,060,000
Gohan ( Enraged ) 1,000,000
What do you guys think?
Piccolo >= Freeza ( Powered Up ) > Gohan ( Zenkai ) > Freeza ( Initial ) >= Gohan ( Enraged )
Numerically like this...
Piccolo ( Weighted ) 1,250,000
Freeza ( Powered Up ) 1,200,000
Gohan ( Zenkai ) 1,100,000
Freeza ( Initial ) 1,060,000
Gohan ( Enraged ) 1,000,000
What do you guys think?