How strong was Dabura?

[Kaboom]

The Daizenshuu already contradict themselves on the "SSj or SSj2 Gohan" thing. Why do people keep forgetting or denying it?

Just out of curiosity, where does it contradict itself? I would like to know for future references.

Well, the entry that everyone keeps mentioning is from Daizenshuu #7, where in Dabra's bio it mentions that he "fought an even battle with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan."

The entry that everyone tends to forget is from Daizenshuu #2, where in Gohan's more extensive "Growing Up" bio, it lists that he only used Super Saiyan 2 as a teenager in Volume 37. That would be at the World Tournament, while his battle with Dabra was later in Volume 38.

So there is a contradiction there between the two volumes.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Daizenshuu already contradict themselves on the "SSj or SSj2 Gohan" thing. Why do people keep forgetting or denying it?

Just out of curiosity, where does it contradict itself? I would like to know for future references.

Well, the entry that everyone keeps mentioning is from Daizenshuu #7, where in Dabra's bio it mentions that he "fought an even battle with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan."

The entry that everyone tends to forget is from Daizenshuu #2, where in Gohan's more extensive "Growing Up" bio, it lists that he only used Super Saiyan 2 as a teenager in Volume 37. That would be at the World Tournament, while his battle with Dabra was later in Volume 38.

So there is a contradiction there between the two volumes.

Problem is, that can be written off since Ultimate Gohan is only stated to be in Volume 41.

[Zephyr]

At the same time, and this is the train of thought I follow, the Daizenshuu could easily have made an error (as the guidebooks very commonly seem to do). Gohan was certainly not depicted in the art as a SSj2, so in the series proper itself, there's no reason to assume that he's anything above SSj (you know, lightning, etc etc etc). The fact that the book said he was SSj2 much after the fact, could simply be written off as an error.

[TheMightyOzaru]

At the same time, and this is the train of thought I follow, the Daizenshuu could easily have made an error (as the guidebooks very commonly seem to do). Gohan was certainly not depicted in the art as a SSj2, so in the series proper itself, there's no reason to assume that he's anything above SSj (you know, lightning, etc etc etc). The fact that the book said he was SSj2 much after the fact, could simply be written off as an error.

That's my thought process. The very same issue also stated that Tenshinhan fought C-19 even though he never did.

[Zephyr]

Precisely. I think it also made a mistake with Bra's birth year, right?

[Kaboom]

Problem is, that can be written off since Ultimate Gohan is only stated to be in Volume 41.

Well, he only really used the form, i.e. actually fought with it, in Volume 41, at least. That could be one way to explain that.

[TheGmGoken]

At the same time, and this is the train of thought I follow, the Daizenshuu could easily have made an error (as the guidebooks very commonly seem to do). Gohan was certainly not depicted in the art as a SSj2, so in the series proper itself, there's no reason to assume that he's anything above SSj (you know, lightning, etc etc etc). The fact that the book said he was SSj2 much after the fact, could simply be written off as an error.

That's my thought process. The very same issue also stated that Tenshinhan fought C-19 even though he never did.

Maybe it was a off screen fight xD. You know, when they was flying to the battle point. Maybe Tien had a fight with 19 in the ai...LOL! Can't even say that without stating bullshit.

[Saiga]

Problem is, that can be written off since Ultimate Gohan is only stated to be in Volume 41.

Well, he only really used the form, i.e. actually fought with it, in Volume 41, at least. That could be one way to explain that.

And adult Goku?

[Kaboom]

And adult Goku?

Turns out that was just a typo on the Kanzentai boys' part, and it's supposed to say Volumes 14-42. I'm trying to find the post that said so...

EDIT: Found it. It was part of this thread.

It also reminded me of my favorite explanation for "Strongest Warrior Gohan" only being listed for Volume 41... Volume 42 features Vegetto, who quickly stole the "strongest warrior" title from Gohan!

[Son_Gohan]

The entry that everyone tends to forget is from Daizenshuu #2, where in Gohan's more extensive "Growing Up" bio, it lists that he only used Super Saiyan 2 as a teenager in Volume 37. That would be at the World Tournament, while his battle with Dabra was later in Volume 38.

So there is a contradiction there between the two volumes.

If you read the written content for that entry though it brings up Gohan being unable to gain power from his anger, an event which only happens after Volume 37. So that makes me think that forgetting the "+" was the actual oversight and the Daizenshuu volumes remain consistent on the issue.

In Vegeta's Super Saiyan entry it also notes his debut as "Volume 32", so it isn't demonstrated to be infallible either.

[RandomGuy96]

As has been pointed out, that entry isn't even consistent anyway (I think Saiga likes to point out how "Too bad the Daiz didn't say that" whenever it's brought up), so it shouldn't really matter much. Not only is the Daizenshuu 7 entry later, and therefore considered to override what was stated previously, but it's an actual statement (rather than what appears to be a typo) and makes sense with what was portrayed in the manga (Gohan's reaction to Initial Fat Buu is particularly telling). It's also consistent with the other info in Dabura's bio, about him having a power level equal to Cell. So I go with that.

I think that Dabura is equal to full power Perfect Cell, roughly 85% of SS2 Gohan. Gohan seemed to have the advantage in strength (he didn't take a lot of damage from Dabura's blast, landed the only hit in the melee, and caught and broke Dabura's sword) but Dabura had the edge because he wasn't as rusty and had a lot of magic tricks. It's kind of hard to draw conclusions though, as the fight was so short and Dabura mostly spammed magic.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ooooooooooor, it's just an error. Gohan is NOT a SSJ2, his aura, his face, his lack of lightning, his hair all scream not SSJ2. Seriously I'll provide pictures:


At this point, you would have to think that Toriyama merely screwed up, and momentarily forgot what a SSJ2 looked like =/.

[TheGmGoken]

Ooooooooooor, it's just an error. Gohan is NOT a SSJ2, his aura, his face, his lack of lightning, his hair all scream not SSJ2. Seriously I'll provide pictures:

Spoiler:

This ^

[Kaboom]

This ^

Try to put in a little more than a one-word response, please. Note why you agree, or... something, I dunno.

[TheGmGoken]

This ^

Try to put in a little more than a one-word response, please. Note why you agree, or... something, I dunno.

I was thinking of something to type. But he already said everything so...like what was I suppose to say lol

[Draken]

This ^

Try to put in a little more than a one-word response, please. Note why you agree, or... something, I dunno.

I was thinking of something to type. But he already said everything so...like what was I suppose to say lol

Then just don't respond? This, I agree, I think that the picture is proof that Gohan was a SSJ. His eyes and face are very clear, blah blah, etc etc.

[TheGmGoken]

^ That sounds boring and lifeless.

[Draken]

^ That sounds boring and lifeless.

Then don't respond.

[TheGmGoken]

^ That sounds boring and lifeless.

Then don't respond.

To late now . No need to make a big deal out of it. Kaboom telling me was enough.

[Son_Gohan]

I like to think that Dabura was at the same level as full-power Cell, while being at the Cell that Goku fought prior to possession. Since when looking at Vegeta's power-up, it only brought his level further within the power range of the SSj2 form. And when Cell powered-up, it didn't bring him up to SSJ2 Gohan's tier, where in neither case were they shown to really damage him when landing a clean shot.