Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[TheGmGoken]

4. Killing your opponent gets you disqualified.

Not a rule/ Bojack killed Pan

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Not a rule/ Bojack killed Pan

He said Tenkaichi Budokai, not the multiverse tournament.

[TheGmGoken]

Not a rule/ Bojack killed Pan

He said Tenkaichi Budokai, not the multiverse tournament.

No where does it say you can't teleport your opponent to another dimension because in the end, you're not killing him and it still results in a ring out.

He was talking about the Multiverse Budokai......

[TheDevilsCorpse]

He was talking about the Multiverse Budokai......

No, they were talking about how XXI's strategy would also be considered fair under normal tournament rules, as in the ones present at the Tenkaichi Budokai.

[TheMightyOzaru]

rightfully so? Under average tournament rules, that's not so fair. He can also tell Vegetto he lost without rubbing it in his face.

XXI's victory was completely by the books, totally fair. And Gohan's not rubbing it in his face, just making it clear that he did lose fairly. His analogy about the Earth was also a good one - being removed from the fight is as good as a loss.

Completely by the books in a traditional fight but such a technique shouldn't be viable in a Budokai. It's hella cheap. Yeah Gohan has a point but this is a tournament. Magic tricks shouldn't be allowed in a MARTIAL ARTS tournament.

[Kamiccolo9]

rightfully so? Under average tournament rules, that's not so fair. He can also tell Vegetto he lost without rubbing it in his face.

XXI's victory was completely by the books, totally fair. And Gohan's not rubbing it in his face, just making it clear that he did lose fairly. His analogy about the Earth was also a good one - being removed from the fight is as good as a loss.

Completely by the books in a traditional fight but such a technique shouldn't be viable in a Budokai. It's hella cheap. Yeah Gohan has a point but this is a tournament. Magic tricks shouldn't be allowed in a MARTIAL ARTS tournament.

Kinda like Roshi's hypnosis in the 21st Budokai?

[TheGmGoken]

Is hypnosis magic? Thought it was an actual martial arts thing to be honest.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kinda like Roshi's hypnosis in the 21st Budokai?

That's not really a magic trick, it's also an avoidable technique.

[Kamiccolo9]

Is hypnosis magic? Thought it was an actual martial arts thing to be honest.

I believe the announcer calls him out on it not being a martial arts technique, and Roshi says that the rules say nothing about it. I could be misrembering it though.

[Saiga]

Completely by the books in a traditional fight but such a technique shouldn't be viable in a Budokai. It's hella cheap. Yeah Gohan has a point but this is a tournament. Magic tricks shouldn't be allowed in a MARTIAL ARTS tournament.

Who said this is a martial arts tournament? And Vegetto himself is a magical being, so if magic isn't allowed, neither should Potara.

[DNA]

Are some of you arguing if hypnosis is or isn't a martial art? Are you kidding me? Hypnosis is very clearly not a martial arts. Martial arts, by name and definition are the arts related to Mars, the Roman god of war; so, any form of combat is a martial art. Hypnosis is not a form of combat in any way or form. Nor is teleportation or magic.

Now, as pointed out, people have been called out for using non-martial techniques in a martial arts tournament, but such clause does not exist in the rules of the tournament.
It is cheap to use them, but not against the rules.

Who said this is a martial arts tournament? And Vegetto himself is a magical being, so if magic isn't allowed, neither should Potara.

That's silly. You're comparing magical arts to magical people. Vegetto came to exist due to magic, yet he is a martial artist. The rules should state that no magical techniques should be allowed, possibly no ESP too, to make it all fair and square, but we've seen plenty of all of that.

Listen, Vegetto lost because that guy used a cheap reality bending technique. Before him, Bujin tried to win by doing the same thing, Buu used magic to beat it. Those girls from Bojack's universe use a bunch of magical techniques too. The tech aliens use all sorts of weapons and shit. There's probably more that I'm not even remembering.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Completely by the books in a traditional fight but such a technique shouldn't be viable in a Budokai. It's hella cheap. Yeah Gohan has a point but this is a tournament. Magic tricks shouldn't be allowed in a MARTIAL ARTS tournament.

Who said this is a martial arts tournament? And Vegetto himself is a magical being, so if magic isn't allowed, neither should Potara.

Can he use magic tricks? No. Vegetto is just really powerful being, not a magic one. If the Potara are not allowed, he could merely just remove them . What's the point of a non-martial arts tournament? It's just a contest of how can I cheat my opponent out of a victory.

[Saiga]

Vegetto's existence itself is a magical trick. And Gotenks was allowed in the tournament... plus the series really doesn't concretely distinguish between ki techniques and magic in the first place. Even ki techniques have some pretty magical properties, like the Kamikaze Ghosts.

XXI wasn't cheating Vegetto out of a victory. He simply won through the use of his abilities.

[RandomGuy96]

Can he use magic tricks? No. Vegetto is just really powerful being, not a magic one. If the Potara are not allowed, he could merely just remove them . What's the point of a non-martial arts tournament? It's just a contest of how can I cheat my opponent out of a victory.

As it is now, it's just a contest of who has the highest power level. Your advancement in the tournament is determined solely by whether or not you're lucky enough to get matched with someone weaker than you.

[TheGmGoken]

Can he use magic tricks? No. Vegetto is just really powerful being, not a magic one. If the Potara are not allowed, he could merely just remove them . What's the point of a non-martial arts tournament? It's just a contest of how can I cheat my opponent out of a victory.

As it is now, it's just a contest of who has the highest power level. Your advancement in the tournament is determined solely by whether or not you're lucky enough to get matched with someone weaker than you.

Yeah Haven't really seen a skill based fight.

[rereboy]

Can he use magic tricks? No. Vegetto is just really powerful being, not a magic one. If the Potara are not allowed, he could merely just remove them . What's the point of a non-martial arts tournament? It's just a contest of how can I cheat my opponent out of a victory.

As it is now, it's just a contest of who has the highest power level. Your advancement in the tournament is determined solely by whether or not you're lucky enough to get matched with someone weaker than you.

Yeah Haven't really seen a skill based fight.

Sounds like most of the Dragon Ball manga.

[RandomGuy96]

Doesn't make it any less boring. There haven't even been any even fights, bar Vegetto vs Broly and Nail vs Recoome.

[TheGmGoken]

Sounds like most of the Dragon Ball manga.

Dragonabll required skill to win. Wasn't just 100% power. Vegeta was weaker than Zarbon yet he killed him with skill. Freeza was fightign dcently with Goku. Goku is 150 million and Freeza was 120 million. Vegeta was more skilled than Rikum. Need more examples?

[rereboy]

Sounds like most of the Dragon Ball manga.

Dragonabll required skill to win. Wasn't just 100% power. Vegeta was weaker than Zarbon yet he killed him with skill. Freeza was fightign dcently with Goku. Goku is 150 million and Freeza was 120 million. Vegeta was more skilled than Rikum. Need more examples?

The most important and the most defining factor is power/strength, just as it was stated by Muten Roshi in the 21st tournament.

Vegeta was weaker than Zarbon the first time they fought. And he lost. The second time, he wasn't weaker than Zarbon because his previous defeat had given him a zenkai.

Goku lost his fight with Vegeta despite having superior techniques that multiplied his power (Kaioken and Genki Dama). Earth and Goku were saved at that time simply because of the interference of Gohan, Krillin and Yajirobe who managed, with the help of Goku, to weaken Vegeta enough for him to flee.

With Freeza it was similar. Goku would never have won if Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin weren't there helping him. He would never have landed his Genki Dama on Freeza without them and he would have die as he tried. And when Freeza survived, he would never have found the power necessary to beat Freeza (SSJ) if Krillin wasn't there to die right in front of him. And even then he didn't beat Freeza because Krillin's death gave him superior skill, but because it gave him superior power.

Whether Vegeta was more skilled than Recoome or not its debatable. But, either way, he was weaker than Reccome and lost his fight agaisnt him. And he would have been killed by him if Krillin and Gohan hadn't save him.

So yeah, I'm gonna need more examples because in Dragon Ball, as far as I can remember, skill has never allowed anyone to win 1-on-1 agaisnt an opponent far superior in power/strength. It has only provided a significant edge when power between the two opponents is close enough.

The only time I remember that skill/technique almost allowed a fighter to win agaisnt an opponent far superior in power was when Roshi used the Mafuba on Piccolo Daimao. It was an haxed technique that required him to sacrifice his life, but yeah, its almost worked.

[TheGmGoken]

Vegeta was weaker than Zarbon the first time they fought. And he lost. The second time, he wasn't weaker than Zarbon because his previous defeat had given him a zenkai.

Manga hints that Vegeta was weaker.
"Seems like a big power level has followed me"
*After Vegeta throws sand into eye and throws ki blast*
"His power dropped."

^ Hints that Zarbon was still stronger.

Goku lost his fight with Vegeta despite having superior techniques that multiplied his power (Kaioken and Genki Dama). Earth and Goku were saved at that time simply because of the interference of Gohan, Krillin and Yajirobe who managed, with the help of Goku, to weaken Vegeta enough for him to flee.

I never said power didn't play a HUGE role. I'm saying skill also plays some-what a role as well. The power gap was 24,000(Kaioken x3) to 180,000. hat's to huge. Let's not forget Vegeta is also skilled

he would have never have found the power necessary to beat Freeza (SSJ) if Krillin wasn't there to die right in front of him. And even then he didn't beat Freeza because Krillin's death gave him superior skill, but because it gave him superior power.

You misunderstood. I said Freeza was holding on him decently with Goku who is a skilled fighter. Yes the fighter with the bigger power level mostly wins. I didn't argue that. I'm saying skill is also needed. Skill gave Goku a slight edge over Kid Boo. I pretty sure Dabura's skill gave him a better edge over Gohan had they been equal. Goten fought a great battle with Trunks because of his skill. He would had won had Trunks not broke his "Promise"