How would YOU have done DBZ?

[SuperSaiyanOzaru]

Now, let me say right out that I love Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. But there are some things about the later series, especially the second half of it (after the Freeza Saga) which I don't like or wish Akira Toriyama had done differently. My favorite "era" of Dragon Ball (as a franchise, not just the original anime) is the period beginning with the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai and ending with Goku's battle with Vegeta. I think that era has the best art style and the best fights. The art style is the best because earlier Dragon Ball is a little too cartoony, and everything post-Freeza is too angular and sharp. The fights are likewise the best because they have this perfect mix of hand-to-hand martial arts action and strange mystical abilities. In late DBZ, all of the fights are basically just dudes throwing energy balls at each other in the sky.

So basically if I could make a fan fiction of an alternate DBZ, I would try to maintain both the art style and the fighting style. I would also get rid of the power creep that you see in DBZ. I'd make characters progress more horizontally than vertically. They'll always be coming up with new abilities and moves instead of going "Now my power level is 10,000,000,000!!!!" I'd make it to where characters like Piccolo Daimao, Raditz, Nappa, etc. are still considered strong and formidable opponents even later on, because the Z-Senshi aren't just getting stronger and stronger until their power levels are in the trillions. I'd do away with the concept of power levels all together, and just keep everyone on a relative scale, like how characters are arranged in tiers in Dragon Ball Multiverse. Certain characters are clearly in a different league than others, but often you wouldn't be able to easily determine who can beat who until they actually fight.

Storywise, I don't really have any clear ideas as to what I'd do. I remember looking at a thread on another sub-forum that asked what if the sagas had been re-arranged. I think that's interesting to think about, and one idea I had was to include a "Doctor Gero Saga" immediately following the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, similar to how the Red Ribbon Arc immediately follows the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. This would technically make it a Dragon Ball arc, but I think it would fit better here than after the Freeza Saga. In my mind, it would play out similarly to The World's Strongest, minus Gohan: Doctor Gero has seen how powerful Goku is and wants to transplant his brain into Goku's body. His fortress is way up north in the icy mountains, and he's got a small army of bio-warriors and jinzoningen to keep Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Chi Chi (i'd include her because I think DB needed more female characters) busy. Piccolo maybe shows up because Doctor Gero's jinzoningen jumped him and managed to capture him, and Goku and the others manage to free him from bondage and he temporarily helps them defeat Doctor Gero. Then says something like "This doesn't change anything..." and flies off at the end. Maybe Kuririn falls in love with one of the jinzoningen and that's where No. 18 comes from, and she becomes a Z-Senshi. Five years later, Raditz arrives.

As for post-Vegeta Saga, I only have two ideas: one idea is to get rid of Freeza (please don't hate me, guys; this is just a silly fanfic idea, okay?) and make it to where Kaiosama's story about the Saiya-jin being destroyed by their own karma was true. That would make the Namek Saga progress quite a bit differently, although I'm not sure how.

The second idea is to include Freeza but still change some things. For one, Freeza isn't so ridiculously powerful and doesn't have four forms. Maybe he only has two or at most, three. Also, his first form is only a little bit stronger than Vegeta's base form, and his final form is only a little bit stronger than Vegeta's Ozaru form. Also, there's no zenkai. Maybe there's something about Saiya-jin getting a teensy bit stronger after every fight but it's not to the extent that a Saiya-jin can easily kick the ass of someone who formally kicked his ass just a few hours ago. I would also change how strong other characters are. The typical Freeza soldier is NOT as strong as Raditz, but instead is weak even by Dragon Ball standards (though still strong compared to, say, Bulma). Kamesennin could easily kick the crap out of Appule. Raditz (and all Saiya-jin) are actually considered quite strong. Dodoria is about even with Nappa, and Zarbon's pretty form is actually only about as strong as Piccolo when he fought Nappa, but his monstrous form is close to even with Vegeta. Zarbon beats up Vegeta by catching him by surprise, but Vegeta manages to kill him in their second fight despite not being significantly stronger. The Ginyu Tokusentai are each about even with Vegeta and Zarbon's monster form ('cept for Guldo, who is weaker than Kamesennin), and Captain Ginyu is only a little bit stronger than them. Vegeta manages to kill Recoome but it's such a close fight that he's too exhausted and injured to defend himself against Jeice and Burter, who double-team him. Kuririn try to stop them but despite Saichouro's power-up he's only about as strong as Goku and Piccolo were at the 23rd TB (after Kamisama's training he was only a little bit weaker than young Piccolo Daimao; again, the power progression is much more gradual in my version, so Daimao is still considered strong even later on). Gohan's much stronger (he's surpassed Raditz and is close to Nappa) but he's still below them and can't do much.

Goku, post 100x gravity training, is significantly stronger than Captain Ginyu and about even with Freeza's second form even without the Kaio-Ken. The Freeza battle would be much shorter, though. It's way too drawn out and tedious in the anime. If I include the Super Saiya-jin transformation, I'd change it to where it looks more like the SSJ4 form and requires an intense burst of rage every time in order to transform, and only Goku can use it. It would represent the mastery of the Ozaru form: all of the ferocity and strength and power, but focused and concentrated into human form. It would be more like a "next step" of the Ozaru form instead of an entirely new form like the SSJ that we see in the anime and manga. Maybe it can still have golden hair like some of that Super Saiyan God fan-art (which look like the SSJ4 but with golden hair).

Post-Freeza I have even less ideas. Since we already have the jinzoningen immediately following the 23rd TB, maybe jump straight into the Buu Saga? The Kaioshin takes notice that someone has defeated Freeza, who previously had been the strongest being in the universe. In my version, Kaioshin was not powerful enough to beat Freeza and so was powerless to stop him, but while he's glad that Freeza's been taken care of, he also knows that Babidi will try to use the power of the Super Saiya-jin to resurrect Majin Buu. This all happens about a year or three after the Freeza Saga. Buu would also be different, since I don't like how he can easily regenerate. Maybe he looks more like Fat Janemba and is more solid? Also, characters like Pui Pui, Dabura, Yakon, etc. are only on par with Nappa, Dodoria, etc., so the human Z-Senshi can fight them while Goku takes on Buu or whatever. Allow every character to make a decent account of themselves. And again, the fights would be more of a mix of hand-to-hand martial arts and mystical ki techniques. Alternatively, I could include a Cell Saga, but it'd be way different since there'd be no jinzoningen. Cell would show up from the future and start absorbing people, and the Z-Senshi are investigating it until Piccolo is confronted by Cell and fights him. Maybe I'd include Mirai Trunks, but he's not a Super Saiya-jin and is only about as strong as Vegeta when he came to Earth (although this is still considered to be really strong). Imperfect Cell would only be about as strong as Freeza's first form, but in his perfect form he'd be stronger than Freeza. Also, maybe at one point he absorbs some of the Z-Senshi like Buu did, and Gohan or Goku or whoever have to go inside of him to free them, just like they did with Super Buu. Meh, just spitballin'.

That's waaaaaaay too long of a post, so I apologize. I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on any changes I would make to DBZ. The idea was to get rid of the power creep and to help keep old characters relevant by limiting how rapidly characters get stronger. I want characters like Daimao and Raditz and Nappa to still be considered really strong even later on, and I want progression to be more about developing new techniques then just benchpressing more. I want the human Z-senshi to still be relevant and useful. It's not so much that Goku is always the one to defeat the Big Bad. Hell, that's been the case since the Piccolo Daimao arc, and I don't think anyone expected Tenshinhan to beat Cell or Buu. But rather, it's that the other Z-senshi don't even get to do anything, not even fight some mooks to make a decent account of themselves. I know it sounds like I hate DBZ, but please understand that it's really only post-Freeza that I have significant problems with, and there's still a lot that I like about the Cell and Buu sagas. Like I keep saying, it's just harmless speculating about how I would've done it. Not that mine would be better, of course.

So what're some of your ideas for how an alternate DBZ would go?

[TheMightyOzaru]

The only things I would really change would be give Piccolo a greater role in the Buu arc and give Vegeta SSJ3 in his fight with Pure Buu.

[Kamiccolo9]

Good first post
I really like your idea of a Dr. Gero-Movie 2 type thing. That would have been a nice interlude between DB and DBZ.
If anything, I would cut the Buu arc down a lot, and place it during the year Goku was on Yardrat. This would give Gohan an arc where he could shine, and we could make use of the Earthlings to deal with the weaker majin henchmen, get rid of Goten, Trunks, and Gotenks, and cut out fusion. Then we could end the series with the Cell Arc, with Goku giving up his life, and Gohan stepping up to become the protector of Earth.

[TheGmGoken]

I would re arranged the sagas. DB would remain the same but DBZ saga would have been

Boo Arc
Android Arc
Saiyan Arc
Freeza Arc
OVAS for Gohan as the new protector
BoG = BoG styled plot and action. Goku would replace Whis through. With emotional development for Gohan as he ask his father why is he allowing Birsu to destroy the Earth. Even a brief spar between the two.

[InfernalVegito]

I always wished he didn't kill off Son Goku's only brother like he was a piece of nothing. I would have liked if Radditz became good and trained with his brother.

[TheGmGoken]

I always wished he didn't kill off Son Goku's only brother like he was a piece of nothing. I would have liked if Radditz became good and trained with his brother.

Or turn him from Evil o Good to Back to evil. Character development and he get's the trick the Z fighters so he'll get stronger.

[RandomGuy96]

Revise the android arc significantly. Freeza stays dead. They learn about the androids from not-Trunks. The androids are much weaker and no one but Goku gets Super Saiyan, hence why it actually matters when he's immobilized. Piccolo's power jump doesn't seem as ridiculous, and he, Vegeta, and the humans learn kaio-ken (though Piccolo and Vegeta can't master it to the same extent that Goku did). The androids are obviously much weaker, and the humans are even somewhat relevant against them, though obviously they're not going to beat them, just help. 20 and 19 would be taken down normally as they were in the series, while 17 and 18 would have to get taken down by team work, but only after Piccolo does his Kami power up. Then Cell comes back, schemes around, absorbs the androids, blah blah. When Goku finally recovers, it comes as a major shock to the audience that, even with his years of training, the Super Saiyan is still helpless against Perfect Cell. Then Gohan steps in, ascends, blah blah, Cell dies in a way similar to the anime, where everyone contributed.

On another note: I'd have Nappa be beaten by team work rather than just using him as another way to wank Goku.

For a more simple thing, I'd simply shave off a zero off of the power levels of of everyone who levels up to fight Freeza, and Freeza himself. Freeza's first form wouldn't be much stronger than Jeice/Burter/Recoome and his second form would be about as strong as Captain Ginyu; this makes his henchmen look less pathetic and the power jumps look a bit less absurd.

In general: I'd make more henchmen USEFUL. In hindsight they were all just useless jobbers; one thing I really liked about movies 1 and 9 is that the henchmen were useful and relevant when it came to helping their bosses fight the strongest main characters. This makes the minor characters' victories against them actually meaningful.

[TheGmGoken]

Revise the android arc significantly. Freeza stays dead. They learn about the androids from not-Trunks. The androids are much weaker and no one but Goku gets Super Saiyan, hence why it actually matters when he's immobilized. Piccolo's power jump doesn't seem as ridiculous, and he, Vegeta, and the humans learn kaio-ken (though Piccolo and Vegeta can't master it to the same extent that Goku did). The androids are obviously much weaker, and the humans are even somewhat relevant against them, though obviously they're not going to beat them, just help. 20 and 19 would be taken down normally as they were in the series, while 17 and 18 would have to get taken down by team work, but only after Piccolo does his Kami power up. Then Cell comes back, schemes around, absorbs the androids, blah blah. When Goku finally recovers, it comes as a major shock to the audience that, even with his years of training, the Super Saiyan is still helpless against Perfect Cell. Then Gohan steps in, ascends, blah blah, Cell dies in a way similar to the anime, where everyone contributed.

On another note: I'd have Nappa be beaten by team work rather than just using him as another way to wank Goku.

For a more simple thing, I'd simply shave off a zero off of the power levels of of everyone who levels up to fight Freeza, and Freeza himself. Freeza's first form wouldn't be much stronger than Jeice/Burter/Recoome and his second form would be about as strong as Captain Ginyu; this makes his henchmen look less pathetic and the power jumps look a bit less absurd.

In general: I'd make more henchmen USEFUL. In hindsight they were all just useless jobbers; one thing I really liked about movies 1 and 9 is that the henchmen were useful and relevant when it came to helping their bosses fight the strongest main characters. This makes the minor characters' victories against them actually meaningful.

How the hell would Vegeta learn kaioken?

[RandomGuy96]

Goku teaches everyone? Seriously, this is one of the most useful techniques in the series and Goku just forgot it existed.

[TheGmGoken]

Goku teaches everyone? Seriously, this is one of the most useful techniques in the series and Goku just forgot it existed.

Would't Vegeta be in space or training somewhere isolated? I highly doubt Vegeta would accept training from Goku during that point of time. Unless you was going to change his persona. Then I can understand and it'll be a good idea.

[rereboy]

- I would make Kibitoshin teleport to the battlefield and make him use his telekineses to hold kid Buu for a second as the Genki Dama finished him.

- I would make Vegeta state that he didn't want Gohan and Gotenks brought over to the battlefield because Kid Buu might resort to absorption again like he had before and the kids had been powerless to stop him.

- I would make Gohan have sparks during his fight with Dabura, Fat Buu and while pulling the sword.

[hulkty]

Make it better. Derp.
/thread.

[RandomGuy96]

I would make Kibitoshin teleport to the battlefield and make him use his telekineses to hold kid Buu for a second as the Genki Dama finished him.

Marvelous idea.

[AquaTeamV3]

Get rid of the obvious Goku favoritism in the Buu Saga. There's no reason why Vegeta, Gotenks, or Gohan couldn't have been the one to take out Buu.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm kind of mixed on that. I liked ending the series with a Spirit Bomb- and giving Mr.Satan and Mr.Buu their moments- but I don't like how Gohan was made useless.

- I would make Vegeta state that he didn't want Gohan and Gotenks brought over to the battlefield because Kid Buu might resort to absorption again like he had before and the kids had been powerless to stop him.

I wouldn't like that. It would make Buu look so stupidly cheap, and basically ruin Super Buu's entire character.

[dbzfan7]

Nothing. I would maybe try to clear up inconsistencies, but that's it.

[Kid Buu]

Krilin and Vegeta both throw Kieznen's at Cell's hands causing him to lose momentum with the Kamehameha, and giving Gohan the chance to finish him off.

[dprez]

I always wished he didn't kill off Son Goku's only brother like he was a piece of nothing. I would have liked if Radditz became good and trained with his brother.

His design wreaked of "kill-off-soon".

Honestly, I can't think of much, but I would've liked to see Future Trunks and his world have more screen time. Expand upon the only two chapters we got of his time. He was one of the best characters imo.

[FoolsGil]

I always wished he didn't kill off Son Goku's only brother like he was a piece of nothing. I would have liked if Radditz became good and trained with his brother.

Someone had to be the herald of DBZ. As someone who doesn't care about how Raditz was treated, I do respect his use as the one who brought the transition.

Of course if I had the reins of DBZ, I'd use Raditz with Nappa and Vegeta. I hated the inconsistencies of the Saiyan battle. Nappa went from completely dominating the fights, taking no damage, to being completely out maneuvered, and taking minor damage. Why did he slaughter Tenshinhan and Chaouzu effortlessly and is now having trouble against the remaining three? This is how I'd do the Saiyan Saga

Something similar happens with the beginning of DBZ except it's some other villain, Demon, made especially to herald in DBZ. He wants the dragonballs, takes Gohan as ransom. Goku and Piccolo team up, same as before, Goku sacrifices himself same as before, things change with Baba. She was on her way to meet up with Master Roshi to inform Goku of her prediction. In one year's time, three horrible men with monkey tails are going to come to Earth and slaughter them all. Things happen the same so far with Goku, Piccolo, and the rest, in one year's time Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta show up.

Turns out the reason for showing up is strictly business-Freeza knew about Earth, wants to know if it has been wiped of life yet and since it was a Saiyan who was sent to that planet, he sends all three of his Saiyans to investigate. Vegeta doesn't care in the slightest, Nappa and Raditz are more or less the same. I would also increase Raditz's pl to be 1800-2000. (it would be lame to have Raditz be the same power level as the Saibaman since he's still alive.) After Nappa wipes out the city they land in, the scouters pick up the power levels of the Z Warriors scattered around the world. Saibamen are planted, sent after the big power levels, with the instruction of bringing Kakkarot back alive. (There would be a gag here where Raditz draws a picture of Bardock in the ground and tells the Saibamen to bring back anyone who looks like that.) So battles ensue, each Z Warrior successfully kill their Saibaman, no casualties. So Raditz and Nappa decide to join in. Nappa goes towards Tenshinhan and Chaozu and easily murders them. Yamcha is the closest afterwards so Nappa kills him too. Raditz and Piccolo go at it, and Gohan jumps in when possible and it turns out Krillin was closest to Piccolo and Gohan's vicinity and with his help the fight is dead even-But then Nappa shows up and Vegeta as well because he got tired of blasting civilians. Krillin Gohan and Piccolo eventually kill Raditz with one of their tag specials. Nappa and Vegeta mock Raditz as he lay dead. Nappa proceeds to start his assault on them once Goku arrives back from Snake Way. From that point forward the battle is the same, including Piccolo's death.

[RandomGuy96]

Why did he slaughter Tenshinhan and Chaouzu effortlessly and is now having trouble against the remaining three?

Because Piccolo and enraged Gohan are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger than Tien?

Something similar happens with the beginning of DBZ except it's some other villain, Demon, made especially to herald in DBZ. He wants the dragonballs, takes Gohan as ransom. Goku and Piccolo team up, same as before, Goku sacrifices himself same as before

So change around Dead Zone and put it in the manga?

(it would be lame to have Raditz be the same power level as the Saibaman since he's still alive.)

Raditz is much stronger than a Saibaman, though I see why he would need to be buffed in this case to be relevant in a team with Nappa and a fight against the Saiyan Saga Z-fighters.

Raditz and Piccolo go at it, and Gohan jumps in when possible and it turns out Krillin was closest to Piccolo and Gohan's vicinity and with his help the fight is dead even-But then Nappa shows up and Vegeta as well because he got tired of blasting civilians. Krillin Gohan and Piccolo eventually kill Raditz with one of their tag specials. Nappa and Vegeta mock Raditz as he lay dead. Nappa proceeds to start his assault on them once Goku arrives back from Snake Way. From that point forward the battle is the same, including Piccolo's death.

This would require a MASSIVE nerf of Saiyan Saga Piccolo. I also think that Raditz should be the one to kill Yamcha. In this scenario he looks like a jobber.

Like I said, I'd change it so Nappa was taken down by a tag team, where Gohan, Krillin, Tien, and Piccolo all get to contribute, but Tien and Piccolo die in the process.