Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

No, he didn't. He retconned his statement when he said that he thought that even SS Gotenks wouldn't be able to handle Buu.

And I don't see how that marks him as stupid. Buu was clearly suppressed up until Gotenks went SS3, and nothing says base Gotenks isn't just really strong... I don't believe he is, but nothing says he isn't.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The fact is, he saw Gotenks and thought he could win. Gotenks gets tossed aside, and Piccolo's like we're doomed. Gotenks turns into a SSJ and Piccolo says, "Wow I didn't know he could turn into a SSJ after fusing." It was pretty retarded of Piccolo to assume base Gotenks had a chance for 1 second.

[RandomGuy96]

The fact is, he saw Gotenks and thought he could win. Gotenks gets tossed aside, and Piccolo's like we're doomed. Gotenks turns into a SSJ and Piccolo says, "Wow I didn't know he could turn into a SSJ after fusing." It was pretty retarded of Piccolo to assume base Gotenks had a chance for 1 second.

He didn't think he'd win; he was completely desperate, admitted that he thought that even SS Gotenks would have no chance, and was whispering "Oh please let there be a miracle..." before Gotenks attacked. And anyway, it's just a gag scene.

And again, nothing says base Gotenks isn't just really strong. That's how people with a high number fetish interpret that anyway.

[Draken]

Well then, we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I just think that the whole "complete fusion" theory is unsubstantiated, illogical, and unnecessary Gogeta wank, that defies implications from the manga and guidebooks. Buuhan will always be able to beat SS3 Gogeta in my book, and the fusion formula will always be consistent.

Works the other way around. The whole "close in power" theory is unsubstantiated, illogical, and unnecessary Vegetto wank.

[RandomGuy96]

No, it's not, because we're actually shown that Vegetto is that strong, while Kibito Kai isn't, even in relative terms. Also, I hate Vegetto, so don't expect me to wank him.

[TheMightyOzaru]

No, it's not, because we're actually shown that Vegetto is that strong, while Kibito Kai isn't, even in relative terms. Also, I hate Vegetto, so don't expect me to wank him.

Why you hate Vegetto ?

[Draken]

No, it's not, because we're actually shown that Vegetto is that strong, while Kibito Kai isn't, even in relative terms. Also, I hate Vegetto, so don't expect me to wank him.

He's that strong because it's Goku and Vegeta, two of strongest fighters anywhere, who are rivals, making them definitely the strongest.

[RandomGuy96]

No, it's not, because we're actually shown that Vegetto is that strong, while Kibito Kai isn't, even in relative terms. Also, I hate Vegetto, so don't expect me to wank him.

Why you hate Vegetto ?

I'll paste my response from the "Unpopular Opinions" thread:

A. He's pointless. He didn't defeat Buu and he got introduced just to defuse. You can cut out his whole fight and contrive another way for Goku and Vegeta to get absorbed and nothing would change.

B. He's boring. His entire appearance is just devoid of any tension because he's so invincible. He just turns the whole thing into a gag.

C. He's a combination of two of my least favorite characters, who were shoehorned into this arc (and in Goku's case, retconned to be more important) because lolGoku.

D. He's overpowered for thinly explained reasons and repeatedly pulls new abilities out of his ass (oh yeah, I can totally survive transmutation, and I can totally not get thrown into a pod when absorbed).

E. He induced idiocy in Buu, one of the smarter villains, by existing. Buu never ever needed to turn him back into Vegetto after he hit with the candy beam; as a jawbreaker Vegetto would be totally incapable of actually killing Buu.

F. Like 95% of the Buu Saga, he's basically filler. In a larger sense you can cut out the whole Super Buu/Gohan/Gotenks/Vegetto segment of the saga and nothing would change. But at least Super Buu is actually an enjoyable character.

Also, because he gets CONSTANT WANKING from annoying fanboys who can't comprehend anyone ever surpassing him ("Vegetto is x1,000,000 stronger than anyone, even Super Saiyan 4 Goku fused with alternate universe Super Saiyan God Goku, base Vegetto can crush SS4 Gogeta's skull like a grape" et cetera).

In short, I would have preferred an epic battle between the strongest hero and strongest villain in Z rather than a boring curbstomp.

[Kamiccolo9]

He induced idiocy in Buu, one of the smarter villains, by existing. Buu never ever needed to turn him back into Vegetto after he hit with the candy beam; as a jawbreaker Vegetto would be totally incapable of actually killing Buu.

I imagine he'd make the rest of Buu's very, very long life a living hell if this happened. Imagine, how would you feel if you constantly had an invincible piece of candy constantly flying around knocking holes in you?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama so his presence isn't entirely pointless. Vegetto has to be formed so that Goku and Vegeta could get inside Buu to reduce his power making him weak enough to be killed by a Genki Dama. Read Derek Pedula's page on the Genki Dama if you want to know more:
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/mart ... explained/
Vegetto also isn't boring, he's practically Sonic the Super Saiyan .

[RandomGuy96]

I imagine he'd make the rest of Buu's very, very long life a living hell if this happened. Imagine, how would you feel if you constantly had an invincible piece of candy constantly flying around knocking holes in you?

Buu can just blow up the Earth and leave.

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama so his presence isn't entirely pointless. Vegetto has to be formed so that Goku and Vegeta could get inside Buu to reduce his power making him weak enough to be killed by a Genki Dama. Read Derek Pedula's page on the Genki Dama if you want to know more:
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/mart ... explained/

I don't like the theory that he can only be killed by the Spirit Bomb 'Genki Dama'; it makes Buu seem even more cheap than he already is, and basically ruins every fight he had, because he was invincible and never in danger the entire time.

Vegetto also isn't boring, he's practically Sonic the Super Saiyan .

To me, his fight is boring. And who said I liked Sonic...?

[TheMightyOzaru]

This theory makes sense though. Buu should only be killable at a subcosmic level. You should like Sonic, he's way past cool .

[Kamiccolo9]

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama so his presence isn't entirely pointless. Vegetto has to be formed so that Goku and Vegeta could get inside Buu to reduce his power making him weak enough to be killed by a Genki Dama. Read Derek Pedula's page on the Genki Dama if you want to know more:
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/mart ... explained/
Vegetto also isn't boring, he's practically Sonic the Super Saiyan .

It's interesting, but I disagree that it was the only way to kill Buu. His regeneration was starting to fail him in the Vegetto fight, and I'm fairly certain that at one point it was said that Pure Buu was gonna kill Mr. Buu.

[Draken]

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama so his presence isn't entirely pointless. Vegetto has to be formed so that Goku and Vegeta could get inside Buu to reduce his power making him weak enough to be killed by a Genki Dama. Read Derek Pedula's page on the Genki Dama if you want to know more:
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/mart ... explained/
Vegetto also isn't boring, he's practically Sonic the Super Saiyan .

It's interesting, but I disagree that it was the only way to kill Buu. His regeneration was starting to fail him in the Vegetto fight, and I'm fairly certain that at one point it was said that Pure Buu was gonna kill Mr. Buu.

Well it was thought Goku's Warp Kamehameha would kill Cell, but we all know how that worked out . I feel like Buu would, given enough time, regenerate unless he was completely and thoroughly atomized.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama so his presence isn't entirely pointless. Vegetto has to be formed so that Goku and Vegeta could get inside Buu to reduce his power making him weak enough to be killed by a Genki Dama. Read Derek Pedula's page on the Genki Dama if you want to know more:
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/mart ... explained/
Vegetto also isn't boring, he's practically Sonic the Super Saiyan .

It's interesting, but I disagree that it was the only way to kill Buu. His regeneration was starting to fail him in the Vegetto fight

I don't see how you can determine such a thing.

[RandomGuy96]

It's interesting, but I disagree that it was the only way to kill Buu. His regeneration was starting to fail him in the Vegetto fight, and I'm fairly certain that at one point it was said that Pure Buu was gonna kill Mr. Buu.

Also, this. The theory that only that can kill Buu violates what's shown and stated in the manga. I think that you can just kill Buu be continuing to blow him up until he runs out of energy to regenerate, or engulfing him in a ki blast, or doing what Piccolo suggested.

Also, didn't Vegetto at one point use a kiai to destroy a part of Buu to such a degree that he couldn't regenerate?

And again, I don't like it because it invalidates every fight, doesn't seem to be implied in the manga at all (even though it would be really important to note), and makes Buu seem ridiculously, comically overpowered. Well, more than he already was.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama so his presence isn't entirely pointless. Vegetto has to be formed so that Goku and Vegeta could get inside Buu to reduce his power making him weak enough to be killed by a Genki Dama. Read Derek Pedula's page on the Genki Dama if you want to know more:
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/mart ... explained/
Vegetto also isn't boring, he's practically Sonic the Super Saiyan .

It's interesting, but I disagree that it was the only way to kill Buu. His regeneration was starting to fail him in the Vegetto fight, and I'm fairly certain that at one point it was said that Pure Buu was gonna kill Mr. Buu.

Well it was thought Goku's Warp Kamehameha would kill Cell, but we all know how that worked out . I feel like Buu would, given enough time, regenerate unless he was completely and thoroughly atomized.

Maybe, but I doubt it. If his regeneration was rendered ineffective by a severe enough beating, like it would have if Vegetto had kept going, I feel like he would have died. We see that Buu doesn't actually have infinite stamina or energy, so eventually he'd wear down enough to be killable by more mundane means. It would just take someone incredibly overpowered to do that.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Again, where is that suggested? I just read the entire fight and nothing implies his regenerative abilities were "failing him".

[Kamiccolo9]

Again, where is that suggested? I just read the entire fight and nothing implies his regenerative abilities were "failing him".

That was a mistake on my part. That happens in the anime.

The point about Mr. Buu still stands though. Dende had to heal him after the Pure Buu fight, and Vegeta was going to kill him until Goku stopped him. His regeneration stopped working after being beat up by Pure Buu.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Fair enough.