Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

There's also every time Buu almost dies, which is a lot. When Gotenks is about to shoot him with a Kamehameha, when Goku is about to do the same, when Vegetto disintegrates part of him, et cetera. Buu and his opponents would both have to be completely unaware of his abilities. There's also this:

Chapter: 492 (DBZ 298), P5.7
Context: after Boo regenerates from being hit with the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack
Piccolo: “Shi…Shit…damn it! Rather than burn [the pieces of Boo’s body], we should have completely wiped them out with our ki…!”

[Rocketman]

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama

Vegetto obliterates part of Buu with a kiai.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama

Vegetto obliterates part of Buu with a kiai.

Ok...

[Kamiccolo9]

Well theory has it that Buu can only be destroyed by the Genki Dama

Vegetto obliterates part of Buu with a kiai.

Oh yeah, the head tentacle thing. I forgot about that.

[RandomGuy96]

I still don't see why Buu couldn't have been beaten the same way Cell was; by being completely engulfed by a huge ki blast much more powerful than him.

[Saiga]

And Vegeta concludes that Boo can die after seeing Pure Boo beating up Good Boo.

[Kamiccolo9]

I still don't see why Buu couldn't have been beaten the same way Cell was.

I imagine he could. That's what was happening when Mr. Buu fought Pure Buu.
Edit: Aaaaannnnd.... Ninja'd.

[RandomGuy96]

And again, Piccolo says that they can completely wipe out every bit of Buu with ki. I don't think that's unique to that one attack.

Anyway, Buu issues aside, I'd like some feedback on my revised Buu Saga levels on page 120, if it's not too much to ask.

I imagine he could. That's what was happening when Mr. Buu fought Pure Buu.

Pure Buu was going to completely engulf Mr.Buu in a powerful ki blast?

Huh, there's also this quote:

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P5.3
Context: as pure Boo beats up on good Boo some more
Vegeta: “…This is bad…Have you noticed, Kakarot?...The fatso’s power is falling…If it’s Boo against Boo, then he can take damage…

[Kamiccolo9]

And again, Piccolo says that they can completely wipe out every bit of Buu with ki. I don't think that's unique to that one attack.

Anyway, Buu issues aside, I'd like some feedback on my revised Buu Saga levels on page 120, if it's not too much to ask.

I imagine he could. That's what was happening when Mr. Buu fought Pure Buu.

Pure Buu was going to completely engulf Mr.Buu in a powerful ki blast?

Huh, there's also this quote:

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P5.3
Context: as pure Boo beats up on good Boo some more
Vegeta: “…This is bad…Have you noticed, Kakarot?...The fatso’s power is falling…If it’s Boo against Boo, then he can take damage…

I wrote that before you edited your post. I was thinking of when Gohan beat Perfect Cell by punching him hard enough. Cell's regeneration failed him there.

[RandomGuy96]

Ah. I just edited to clarify; when I said "the way Cell was beaten" I meant the way he was killed.

[Kamiccolo9]

Ah. I just edited to clarify; when I said "the way Cell was beaten" I meant the way he was killed.

Ok. I think that would work too. Vegetto obliterated a part of Buu; there's no reason he couldn't do the same to all of him if he really wanted.

Edit: As for your list, I don't think you should use the Buu Arc levels for Fusion Reborn. Too much hax is going on in that movie, and then you have the Hirudegarn<Janemba statement, and Hirudegarn beating up Gohan and Gotenks and losing to Goku.

[PerfectFreeza]

There is a hax in M12?
I believe only Goku was just stated to be stronger by Vegeta.That's all, right?
Nothing special about that movie then.

[RandomGuy96]

Edit: As for your list, I don't think you should use the Buu Arc levels for Fusion Reborn. Too much hax is going on in that movie, and then you have the Hirudegarn<Janemba statement, and Hirudegarn beating up Gohan and Gotenks and losing to Goku.

Didn't Hirudegarn get weakened before fighting Goku though?

Well, I guess that's why I didn't add Movie 13 . Movie 12, taken on its own, just has Janemba beating Super Saiyan 3 Goku; not a big feat. If I had to do Movie 13 levels, I'd just go with the assumption that Gohan and Gotenks are nerfed severely, instead of Goku being haxxed; Gohan seems extremely weak in that movie. Ooooooor I can just make a separate anime-based list, but I don't see the need for that...

There is a hax in M12?
I believe only Goku was just stated to be stronger by Vegeta.That's all, right?
Nothing special about that movie then.

The hax is that Janemba is stated to be stronger than Hirudegarn on Toei's website, and Hirudegarn beat up Ultimate Gohan.

[PerfectFreeza]

He really isn't stated.They just used the ''connect the dots'' logic and forgot Goku killed Hildegarn with Dragon Fist, not own power.

Battle ki raised to stupendous heights explodes from out of Goku's outstretched fist. Goku's battle ki appeared as a golden, shining dragon, and after piercing through Hildegarn's body, it coiled around Hildegarn and annihilated it through this formidable power. (Daizenshuu 6, p.150)

[TheMightyOzaru]

That's great and all but Janenba has feats that rival Buuhan in the anime so he's definitely stronger than Hirudegarn.

[Kamiccolo9]

Didn't Hirudegarn get weakened before fighting Goku though?

Well, I guess that's why I didn't add Movie 13 . Movie 12, taken on its own, just has Janemba beating Super Saiyan 3 Goku; not a big feat. If I had to do Movie 13 levels, I'd just go with the assumption that Gohan and Gotenks are nerfed severely, instead of Goku being haxxed; Gohan seems extremely weak in that movie. Ooooooor I can just make a separate anime-based list, but I don't see the need for that...

Your choice. Personally, I give the movies (aside from a few exceptions) their own levels, without connecting them to the manga, or even each other, for the most part. For example, I have no problem with M5 Goku being stronger in base than,, say M7 Goku, since M5 Goku has had experiences and powerups that M7 Goku did not.

The point being, since M12 can't actually fit into manga continuity, I see no reason to use manga levels for it. If you want to though, more power to you

[TheMightyOzaru]

Honestly, if we assume Hirudegarns power comes from his physical strength as opposed to his BP, you could potentially make M12 and M13 work within the boundaries of the manga. Not everyone in DBZ has to have a massive BP to be strong. You can even make the anime work within the boundaries of the manga with a little creativity.

[Kaboom]

The one big reason why I haven't finished my movies list is because I haven't gotten around to re-watching Movie 13 so I can analyze this stuff a little more closely. Once I do, I'll be sure to post my thoughts as commentary along with the list...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Personally, I give the movies (aside from a few exceptions) their own levels, without connecting them to the manga, or even each other, for the most part. For example, I have no problem with M5 Goku being stronger in base than,, say M7 Goku, since M5 Goku has had experiences and powerups that M7 Goku did not.

Impossible. All the movies take place in the same world, according to M12.

[Kamiccolo9]

Personally, I give the movies (aside from a few exceptions) their own levels, without connecting them to the manga, or even each other, for the most part. For example, I have no problem with M5 Goku being stronger in base than,, say M7 Goku, since M5 Goku has had experiences and powerups that M7 Goku did not.

Impossible. All the movies take place in the same world, according to M12.

That doesn't work either. Since movie 4 is said to take place at the same time as the Namek Arc in the Daizenshuu, yet movie 5 references the Freeza fight, which couldn't have happened if Goku wasn't on Namek.
Movie 12 has cameos of the other movie villains, but that doesn't mean that the exact events of those movies took place in the same continuity as M12. Plus, Toryama's quote that the movies were in different dimensions (plural) than the manga wouldn't really make sense if they were all in the same continuity. The Daizenshuu doesn't even count them all in the same continuity, as seen with it's timeline only counting movies 1 and 5.