The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:53 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Bio Broly wasn't stronger than regular Broly.
LSS Broli (M10) vs Bio-Broli

Now it won't be off-topic. :P

Bio-Broli has Broli's genes from M10, and he had all of his memories (including KARAROTTOOOOO!!!! and his techniques). So, Bio-Broli should be as strong as Broli. The only thing that makes Bio-Broli weaker is the fact that Goten & Trunks punched him hard after a wild combo on his body & hurt him, but this could be due to his body structure (maybe it makes him less durable?),

PerfectFreeza wrote:Yes, then they did use the connect the dots logic.
They forgot to account Gohan and Gotenks being beaten with ease and Goku being most likely haxed, atop fighting most likely weakened Hirudegarn.
The producer also said the newer villains are stronger than the previous ones.
Usually, yes, the next villain is the strongest, but not always. General Black in Battle Jacket wasn't stronger than Hildegarn.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:55 am

Bio-Broli has Broli's genes from M10, and he had all of his memories (including KARAROTTOOOOO!!!! and his techniques). So, Bio-Broli should be as strong as Broli. The only thing that makes Bio-Broli weaker is the fact that Goten & Trunks punched him hard after a wild combo on his body & hurt him, but this could be due to his body structure (maybe it makes him less durable?),
Goten and Trunks actually put up a good fight against Bio-Broly, but couldn't do anything to normal SS Broly. Bio-Broly is either at Cell Junior level or Cell Games Goku level for me, maybe lower. M10 Broly finger flicks him.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:02 pm

No, the only moment they hurt Bio-Broli was when they punched him together on his stomach. Every other hit made him barely move, or not move at all.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:03 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:No, the only moment they hurt Bio-Broli was when they punched him together on his stomach. Every other hit made him barely move, or not move at all.
I haven't seen this movie in years, but wan't Bio-Broly basically a walking pile of sludge? Did he ever use any ki attacks, or demonstrate power on par with even M8 Broly?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:11 pm

Bio-Broli used the usual green ki attacks that Broli uses, and SS Goten, SS Trunks, #18, and Kuririn couldn't do shit to him (like in every Broli movie). Goten & Trunks only managed to make one good hit (they punched him together to the stomach, which made him vomit), but nothing else. He was either not even moving from their other hits, or he barely moved.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:12 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Bio-Broli used the usual green ki attacks that Broli uses, and SS Goten, SS Trunks, #18, and Kuririn couldn't do shit to him (like in every Broli movie). Goten & Trunks only managed to make one good hit (they punched him together to the stomach, which made him vomit), but nothing else. He was either not even moving from their other hits, or he barely moved.
That's still more than anyone could do against Broly in either M8 or M10 though. And you know how Toei is about punches :P
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:15 pm

In my opinion, Goten and Trunks =< Movie 8 heroes, so their ability to actually do that much to Bio-Broly would mark Bio-Broly as weaker than Movie 8 Broly, who just tanked everything but the Friendship Punch.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:17 pm

Well, initial First Form Cell seemed to be as strong as Goku (Saiyan arc), Vegeta (Saiyan arc) Piccolo (Saiyan arc), Mecha Freeza, and King Cold combined, and had all of their memories, which implies that if someone in DB is cloned, he will be as strong, and will have the same memories as the original. Since Bio-Broli is Broli's clone from M10, and has all of Broli's memories in the movie, I would say that he is also as strong as him.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:19 pm

Initial Imperfect Cell isn't really the same case as Bio-Broly; also, he wasn't as strong as those guys combined, he was waaaaay stronger. He was supposed to be superior to android arc Vegeta.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:19 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Well, initial First Form Cell seemed to be as strong as Goku (Saiyan arc), Vegeta (Saiyan arc) Piccolo (Saiyan arc), Mecha Freeza, and King Cold combined, and had all of their memories, which implies that if someone in DB is cloned, he will be as strong, and will have the same memories as the original. Since Bio-Broli is Broli's clone from M10, and has all of Broli's memories in the movie, I would say that he is also as strong as him.
He may have been as strong before getting all sludge-like, but afterwards, he doesn't seem to be anything special.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PerfectFreeza » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:22 pm

But he is the main writer.Isn't he the one, who makes the script for the movies?
Akira Toriyama forgot about the SSJ3, so it wouldn't be very far fetched to say, that he forgot about the Buus.
Even now, when you tell some people about BOG stating Freeza>Base Saiyans, they say ''Toriyama doesn't remember SSJ3, so Beers's statement doesn't count''.
It's from this very site.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/07/07/ta ... e-of-gods/
He didn't have to think of a new, stronger villain, since the movie you are talking about is a retelling of Dragon Ball, DBZGTKOSDH.
They managed to blast him into a wall, Goten managed to hurt him, when he punched him, they together managed to make him spil blood and most likely, together could beat him, if Goten didn't care about HercuIe or the scientists.
18 also made him fall on his hands with her punch.
What the writer said, makes Bio Broly far stronger than SSJ2 Adult Gohan.
So yes, I guess they are haxed.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:45 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Initial Imperfect Cell isn't really the same case as Bio-Broly; also, he wasn't as strong as those guys combined, he was waaaaay stronger. He was supposed to be superior to android arc Vegeta.
I'm talking about the Cell before absorbing any humans, not the one that Piccolo met.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:02 pm

Umm tie.... assuming he isn't covered in garbage.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:09 pm

Had no clue Cell had the memories of the warriors within him.

Broly wins.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:18 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Had no clue Cell had the memories of the warriors within him.
In his First Form, he could do a Kamehameha exactly as powerful as Goku's was in Saiyan arc, and he seems to know all of the warriors' techniques that are inside him.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Draken » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:47 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Had no clue Cell had the memories of the warriors within him.
In his First Form, he could do a Kamehameha exactly as powerful as Goku's was in Saiyan arc, and he seems to know all of the warriors' techniques that are inside him.
He has their techniques and skills but how would he have the memories? O_O

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:28 am

Draken wrote:He has their techniques and skills but how would he have the memories? O_O
Well... to do a technique, you need to remember how to do it, right? It's in your memories.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by rereboy » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:38 am

That could be just something like muscle memory.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:47 am

rereboy wrote:That could be just something like muscle memory.
What's that?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Insertclevername » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:51 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
rereboy wrote:That could be just something like muscle memory.
What's that?
Like he only remembers the feelings of each technique. I believe it's the same as knowing what key to press on your keyboard without looking at it or thinking too hard.
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