Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

Good Buu held on so long because he's freakin Buu. His stamina is impossibly high. Even Vegeta "damaged" Buu in the manga:

Spoiler:

[dbzfan7]

Yes, but then they both said they would use full effort.

So why don't you list the level Cell was at when demolishing Vegeta? That level is important to Cell Games Vegetas strength.

Another minor error: you have SS Vegeta at 1 million vs Semi-Cell.

I also think Good Buu is too low, because in his fight with Kid Buu he was able to hold his own. Or is that Good Buu different than this one?

Seems like you went with the "Gohan was only a SS" side. What a shame.

Seems to me she could have broken him at any point. These Cyborgs are bored and want to fight. If they break there toys so quickly they got nothing to play with. So I believe she prolonged it.

Cell's power rises so I just put rising next to it and he stopped himself below Trunks. I'll leave it up to imagination.

Trunks says "he's transforming already" as if Vegeta was going to fight Semi Cell before transforming. So I think he expected him to fight as an SSJ first.

I plan on giving Good Boo a boost when the time comes. That or i'll just go with the other Boo theory. Haven't decided yet.

I'll add the SSJ2 version for you because I really haven't picked a side. I just right at the top of my head.

[RandomGuy96]

No, I mean... I think you meant to have him at 1 billion, not million. Also, Cell did a big power up after that.

Buu's regen has nothing to do with his ability to actually hit Kid Buu and make him fight seriously. I don't see why people are so reluctant to take Buu's feats seriously; he's obviously not less than half of Kid Buu here, or he would have gotten godstomped in seconds, regen or no.

Ah, okay. Thanks.

On that note... Gohan caught and broke Dabura's sword, landed the only actual punch, and didn't take a lot of damage from his surprise ki blast. I think there should be a bigger gap between the two. Noticeable, but still easy for Dabura to overcome with skills and magic.

I'd also give Gotenks at least a 10% advantage over Super Buu, given the way he dominated easily, but I guess that's just personal preference.

Do you have a formula or anything for why Super and Buff Buu are so strong?

[dbzfan7]

No, I mean... I think you meant to have him at 1 billion, not million. Also, Cell did a big power up after that.

I just wrote rising for Cell as he eventually put himself just below Trunks. Also thanks for the SSJ Vegeta point I missed.

Ah, okay. Thanks.

On that note... Gohan caught and broke Dabura's sword, landed the only actual punch, and didn't take a lot of damage from his surprise ki blast. I think there should be a bigger gap between the two. Noticeable, but still easy for Dabura to overcome with skills and magic.

I'd also give Gotenks at least a 10% advantage over Super Buu, given the way he dominated easily, but I guess that's just personal preference.

Do you have a formula or anything for why Super and Buff Buu are so strong?

I have no preference for the Dabra thing. so i'm SSJ and SSJ2 friendly on the subject.

I was thinking of a bigger gap. I think it would still be a close battle either way. So I kinda like it where it is as we didn't get a long enough fight. Only reason I have Gohan stronger is because an anime guide book said Gohan had more power. Dabra also believed Gohan was trash (probably skills related as he caught him off guard easily) so I like to think they would be really close.

We argued about the Gotenks thing a while ago, i'll stick with agree to disagree on that one

I just made Super Boo that strong because I have SSJ Gotenks post ROSAT equal to SSJ3 Goku. so he would be about 8x stronger (I made him just under that) to at least be in Gotenks' league. Buff Boo should only be noticeably stronger than Super Boo. Either way I have yet to decide on what to do until I decide what to do with the potara.

I need help with the Potara multiplier. I have no idea what to do for Kibitoshin or Vegetto.

[RandomGuy96]

My multiplier for the Potara is "plot". No set multiplier really necessary (as it obviously doesn't have one, otherwise Kibito Kai would GODSTOMP Kid Buu) just place the characters where you think they should fit. In my case, I just had Kibito Kai three times stronger than Kaioshin, and SS Vegetto at twice as strong as Buuhan.

I'd think that the issue of how Buu got so strong is trickier...

[Rocketman]

Vegetto's effect makes him 500 attack points stronger than the strongest monster on the field.

[Kamiccolo9]

Vegetto's effect makes him 500 attack points stronger than the strongest monster on the field.

He tricked Buu into using his trap card.

[RandomGuy96]

Looks like dbzfan adopted my quickly thought up potara theory. Guess since I have it, I may as well use it...

(goes to page 120 and types a bunch)

There. Now Goku and Vegeta are exactly equal, Super Vegtto is just over a trillion, and all is as it should be. Though I consequently had to change around my dance fusion multiplier, buff the kids, and give Toei Dance Fusion a different multiplier (because of the GT Perfect Files statement that Gogeta is "tens of times" stronger than Goku or Vegeta). I also had to nerf that multiplication system I had going for Buu to keep Buuhan below Vegetto. Now South Kaioshin is the only multiplicative absorption. Shame. Well at least Buuhan can still beat Gogeta rather easily (though they're about the same strength)....

Btw dbzfan, are you even going to list the Kaioshin levels? I wanted to know if you think South Kaioshin is stronger than Kid Buu (as was implied by the "somehow" and the "Kid Buu absorbed him by surprise out of desperation" theory), weaker than Kid Buu, but still able to put up a fight (as in the anime filler), or so weak that he's below even pre-ultimate Gohan (as implied by the Z-sword sequence)?

[dbzfan7]

Looks like dbzfan adopted my quickly thought up potara theory. Guess since I have it, I may as well use it...

Btw dbzfan, are you even going to list the Kaioshin levels? I wanted to know if you think South Kaioshin is stronger than Kid Buu (as was implied by the "somehow" and the "Kid Buu absorbed him by surprise out of desperation" theory), weaker than Kid Buu, but still able to put up a fight (as in the anime filler), or so weak that he's below even pre-ultimate Gohan (as implied by the Z-sword sequence)?

Yep I adopted your Potara idea. I just boosted the potara so my power levels could stay the same.

I will eventually do Kaioshin levels. The few that died should be at least stronger than East Kaioshin (how much so IDK). South Kaioshin on the other hand has to be in Kid Boo's league. I think i'll just make him a little stronger than Kid Boo to the point Kid Boo can't easily put him down (but can wear him down and win) or risk actually being killed. Though I will then have to think if I will put SSJ3 Goku higher or lower then South Kaioshin.

I'm reviewing the anime and manga to decide Mr. Boo's level. He did more than Vegeta and tanked a ton of punishment and could even retaliate. So he may just be closer to Kid Boo than I originally thought.

You may wanna re-post your levels if your 18 pages back.

[RandomGuy96]

I like to just go by the anime version of the South Kaioshin vs Kid Buu fight now, or at least the general idea of it; he was skilled and strong to the point he could actually FIGHT Kid Buu, but Kid Buu was clearly much stronger and faster, dodging so fast he appeared to be teleporting and inflicting a ton of damage with just one kick when he finally landed a solid hit. Though I like to think that in the actual version he at least got off an amplified attack or something.

Yes, I guess I'll post it again. I've probably changed enough to justify that, and not just in the Buu Saga.

[dbzfan7]

I like to just go by the anime version of the South Kaioshin vs Kid Buu fight now, or at least the general idea of it; he was skilled and strong to the point he could actually FIGHT Kid Buu, but Kid Buu was clearly much stronger and faster, dodging so fast he appeared to be teleporting and inflicting a ton of damage with just one kick when he finally landed a solid hit. Though I like to think that in the actual version he at least got off an amplified attack or something.

Yes, I guess I'll post it again. I've probably changed enough to justify that, and not just in the Buu Saga.

I haven't watched the anime fight in a while. I take Kibitoshin's quote as if South Kaioshin had some sort of advantage and somehow got absorbed.

EDIT: Actually seeing the fight it seems there somewhat close with Kid Boo being superior by some margin. Though If I go by that then Kibitoshin's comment doesn't seem to make sense. How was South Kaioshin somehow absorbed if Kid Boo beat him, found him worthy, and then absorbed him

[RandomGuy96]

The anime fight was rather short (though maybe a little more of it occurred off screen). SK and Buu charge at each other and collide. Buu double-axe handles South Kaioshin and South Kaioshin responds by grabbing Buu and headbutting him, which actually seems to give him pain. Buu tries to kick SK but SK blocks it. He then tries to punch SK but SK catches Kid Buu's punch and, with all of his might, rips Buu's arm off, much to Buu's shock. Kid Buu gets mad, quickly regrows his arm, and throws an energy ball, which SK cancels out with his own, more charged energy ball. Kid Buu dodges the attack (though at least seems alerted by it) and South Kaioshin tries to hit him again. Buu appears to teleport when he dodges SK's hit, and then delivers a solid kick to the back. SK's energy ball comes back to track Buu, but Buu swallows it (wtf?). SK is now covered in wounds and has trouble standing up, just from that one kick. It's at this time Buu decides to absorb him.

So yeah, IMO, he's a lot weaker than Buu here. Buu had no injuries while SK was almost beaten by Buu hitting him once.

I find that assuming South Kaioshin was much weaker than Kid Buu works best when trying to fit together the anime and the implications about Good Buu's power; he should have both Kaioshin in him, and have their power. Though I'm thinking I have Good Buu a little too close to Kid Buu at 84-86% of him. I figure if they have the same skills and abilities, and power is all that matters, then that sort of advantage should let Kid Buu have the upper hand the way he did, and like Vegeta had an advantage over KKx2 Goku... but I'm not sure.

EDIT: "Somehow" can just mean "he was somehow able to integrate someone into his body". Either interpretation is valid; it doesn't have to mean SK > Kid Buu.

[RandomGuy96]

MULTIPLIERS

Super Saiyan- x50
--Grade 2- x75
--Grade 3- x135
--Super Saiyan 2- x100
--Super Saiyan 3- x400 (x4 off of the previous form)
---Gotenks' Super Saiyan 3- x200 (x4 normal Super Saiyan, due to skipping Super Saiyan 2)
--Legendary Super Saiyan- x100

Freeza's Species: natural max is what Freeza referred to as 50% of his power. Counterpart to Super Saiyan.
-Fifth Form: x4. Counterpart to Super Saiyan 2.

"Muscle Mode": x1.5. Generic power up used by several species, involving artificially pumping up your body with ki. Users include Freeza's clan, Super Saiyans, Makyans, and humans.

Super Heran- x1.5

Kaio-Ken- x(level of Kaio-Ken)

Namekian Fusion- (A + B) x 10. Rejoining after a fission is exempt from this rule and has its own set.

Dance Fusion- (A + B) x 5

Toei Dance Fusion- (A + B) x 20

Majin Buu-
--Absorption- (A + B)

Potara Fusion- (A + B) x Y. Y is determined by the difference of powers.
--Kibito Kai: Kibito's power level of 66,000,000 is 2.75% of Kaioshin's 2,400,000,000. The fusion was (66,000,000 + 2,400,000,000) x 2.75
--Vegetto: Goku's base power of 100,000,000 is 95% of Vegeta's 105,000,000. The fusion was (100,000,000 + 105,000,000) x 95.

Attacks:
-Kamehameha (mastered)- x1.5
-Special Beam Cannon- x1.6
-Light Grendade- x2
-Galick Gun- x1.5
-Final Flash- x5
-Supernova- x1.6
-Super Kamehameha- x2.22
-Mouth Blast- x1.25

NOTE: A tiny bit of rounding is involved in these attacks to keep the numbers clean. If you want an in-universe reason you can dismiss it as varying states of energy usage, injury, and mastery.

OTHER NOTE: An old Weekly Jump issue gave the power level of Goku at the 23rd Tournament as 910. As I think that this fits the story quite well, I've chosen to use that as my baseline for the Dragon Ball numbers while dispensing with the pre-Z V-Jump numbers, which were littered with errors. I assume that Raditz read Goku's and Piccolo's suppressed powers as 408 and 416, and Goku's true power only came out when firing the Kamehameha. Otherwise the scouter couldn't sense him, just like how Nappa's scouter read all of the Earthlings at weaker than Raditz. Aside from the Dragon Ball ones, the only official numbers I ignored are the ones for the Armored Squadron and the V-Jump ones for Cooler, Broly, and Gogeta- the latter can work but I don't put a lot of stock into them, while the former are just flat-out wrong, since they have every single member of the squad considerably weaker than Gohan.

EPISODE OF BARDOCK

Bardock- 12,000
--Super Saiyan- 600,000

Chilled- 106,000

BARDOCK: FATHER OF GOKU

Bardock- 6,500
--Zenkai- 9,800
Tatapo- 2,400
Selypa- 2,800
Pambukin- 2,920
Toma- 3,600
King Vegeta- 10,000
Vegeta(Kid)- 11,000
Nappa- 4,500

Freeza- 500,000
Zarbon- 20,000
Dodoria- 18,000
Dodoria's Elites- 4,000

Demon Wars

Master Mutatio- 350
Roshi- 280
Shen/Crane Hermit- 245

King Piccolo- 530
Demons- 200

21st Tournament Arc

Roshi (Heavily Suppressed)- 45
--True Power- 139
--MAX Power- 210
---MAX Power Kamehameha- 305
Goku- 50
--Ozaru- 500

Red Ribbon Army Arc

(just a few important ones)

Korin- 190
Goku- 55
--Post-Korin training- 165
Bora- 46

Tao- 110
General Blue- 48

Grandpa Gohan- 150
Devilman- 130
Mummy- 90
Fangs- 79
Invisible Man- 56

Krillin- 85
Yamcha- 70

22nd Tournament/Tien Arc

Goku- 180
Roshi- 139
Krillin- 105
Yamcha- 95

Tien- 160
Crane Hermit- 120
Chiaotzu- 90

King Chappa- 70
Pamput- 20

King Piccolo Saga

Goku- 180
--"Match Level"- 120
--Post-God Water- 540
Tien- 165
Roshi- 139
Yajirobe- 130
Krillin- 105
Yamcha- 95

King Piccolo- 450
--Half Power (vs Goku Round 1)- 225
--Young- 530
Drum- 210
Tambourine- 140
Cymbal- 105
Piano- 7

Kami- 700
Popo- 600

23rd Tournament

Goku- 910
--Weighted/Suppressed (vs Tien)- 610
Kami/Shen- 700
Tien- 560
Krillin- 350
Yamcha- 300
Yajirobe- 250
Chiaotzu- 185
Chi Chi- 130

Piccolo Junior- 890
Cyborg Tao- 440
Crane Hermit- 120

Garlic Jr. Attacks Earth

Goku- 920
Piccolo- 900
Kami- 650
Krillin- 400
Gohan (angry)- 1,309

Garlic Jr- 820
--Full Power- 1,230
Nicky- 400
--Full Power- 600
Sansho- 380
--Full Power- 570
Ginger- 360
-Full Power- 540

SAIYAN SAGA

Arrival of Raditz

Goku- 924
--Suppressed- 416
Piccolo- 905
--Suppressed- 408
--Special Beam Cannon- 1,440
Gohan- 2
--Gohan(Angry)- 1,307
Tenshinhan- 625
--Resting- 250
Krillin- 515
--Resting- 206
Yamcha- 443
--Resting- 177
Master Roshi- 139

Raditz- 1,500

Arrival of Nappa and Vegeta

Goku: 8,000
--Kaioken x2: 16,000
--Kaioken x3: 24,000
---Drained- 21,000
----x3 Kamehahema- 31,500
----x4 Kamehameha- 42,000
Piccolo: 3,500
--Special Beam Cannon- 5,600
Tenshinhan: 1,830
--Heavily Injured and Near Death- 610
---Kikoho- 3,050
Krillin: 1,770
Yamcha: 1,480
Gohan: 981
--Angry- 2,800
Mr Popo: 1,030
Yajirobe: 970
Chaozu: 610
--Suicide Attack- 2,440
Kami- 600

Vegeta- 18,000
--Galick Gun- 32,400
--Drained and Injured- 9,000
---Oozaru- 90,000
--Drained and Injured further- 3,000
Nappa- 4,000
Saibamen: 1,200
--Suicide Attack- 4,800

Tree of Might

Goku- 40,000
--Kaio-Ken x2- 80,000
--Kaio-Ken x10- 400,000
Piccolo- 18,000
--Special Beam Cannon- 29,000
Gohan- 10,000
--Oozaru- 100,000
Tien- 6,000
Krillin- 5,800
Yamcha- 5,000
Chaozu- 2,000

Turles- 37,000
--First Fruit- 550,000
--Second Fruit- 900,000
Amond- 20,000
Daiz- 16,000
Cacao- 13,000
Those Two Purple Guys- 5,500

FREEZA SAGA

Prior To Super Long Battle With Freeza

Goku- 90,000
--Kaio-Ken x2- 180,000
--Kaio-Ken x10- 900,000
Vegeta- 24,000
--First Zenkai- 30,000
---Final Crash- 45,000
--Second Zenkai- 250,000
Krillin- 2,100
--Initial Potential Unlocked- 13,000
--Potential Unlocked vs Ginyu-Goku- 25,000
Gohan- 1,600
--Initial Potential Unlocked- 14,000
--Potential Unlocked vs Ginyu-Goku- 27,000
Nail- 42,000
Elite Namekian Warriors- 10,000
Namekian Warriors- 3,000

Freeza- 530,000
Zarbon- 23,000
--Transformed- 33,000
Dodoria- 22,000
--Yuuki lost- 15,000
Cui- 18,000
--Yuuki lost- 13,000
Freeza Soldiers (Namek village)- 1,300
Freeza Soldiers (common)- 500-1000
Banan- 980
Sui- 840

Captain Ginyu- 120,000
--Goku's Body- 23,000
Jeice- 41,000
Burter- 39,000
Reccoome- 37,000
--Mouth Blast- 46,000
Guldo- 6,000

Tien- 102,000
--Multiform Clones- 51,000
Yamcha- 50,000
Chaozu- 34,000

Super Long Battle With Freeza

Goku- 3,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x10- 30,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x20- 60,000,000
---Drained and Injured- 50,000,000
----x20 Kamehameha- 75,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 150,000,000
Vegeta- 250,000
--Final Zenkai- 2,300,000
---Crying- 18,000
Piccolo- 78,000
--Weighted- 58,000
--Fused With Nail (Weighted)- 1,000,000
----Without Weights 1,200,000
Gohan- 200,000
-Post-zenkai- 300,000
Krillin- 75,000 (and rising)
--Later in battle- 230,000

Freeza- 530,000 (first form)
--Second Form- 1,000,000
----Second Form First Power Up- 1,100,000
----Second Form Second Power Up- 1,200,000 (1%)
--Third Form- 2,000,000
----Third Form Power Up (unseen)- 2,400,000 (2%)
--Initial Final Form - 3,600,000 (3%)
--Final Form (50%)- 60,000,000
--Final Form (70%) (brief burst)- 84,000,000
--Final Form (100%)- 120,000,000

Lord Slug

Goku- 3,300,000
--Kaio-Ken x10- 33,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x20- 66,000,000
--False Super Saiyan- 165,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x100: 330,000,000
Piccolo- 1,500,000

Lord Slug- 65,000,000
--Young- 130,000,000
--Giant- 200,000,000
Angira- 1,500,000
Medamathca- 1,400,000
--Mouth Blast- 1,750,000
Wings- 1,200,000
Commander Zoon- 800,000

CELL SAGA

Arrival of Mecha Freeza

Goku - 3,700,000
--Super Saiyan - 185,000,000
Trunks - 3,300,000
--Super Saiyan - 165,000,000
Piccolo - 3,500,000
Vegeta - 3,200,000

Mecha Freeza - 7,000,000 (suppressed)
--70% Power (vs Trunks)- 98,000,000
--Full Power (unseen)- 140,000,000
King Cold - 5,500,000 (suppressed)
--Full Power (unseen)- 110,000,000

Cooler's Revenge

PRE-RETCON:

Cooler- 140,000,000
--Fifth Form- 6,400,000,000

Goku- 160,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x20- 3,200,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 8,000,000,000

(a year into the android training)

Goku- 4,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 203,000,000 (pre-zenkai)
--Post-zenkai- 5,000,000
---Kaio-Ken x10 - 50,000,000
---Kaio-Ken x20 - 100,000,000
----x20 Kamehameha - 150,000,000
---Super Saiyan - 250,000,000
----Kamehameha: 375,000,000
Piccolo - 5,000,000
Gohan- 2,200,000
Krillin- 2,000,000

Cooler-
--"50%" Power/Natural Max (vs Goku Round 1)- 50,000,000
--Goku's Initial Estimation For Cooler ("greater than Freeza")/ Cooler powering up- 140,000,000
--Fifth Form: 200,000,000
---Supernova: 320,000,000
Salza: 3,300,000
Doore: 3,000,000
Neiz: 2,800,000

Trunks' Bad Future

Future Gohan- 2,800,000
--Super Saiyan: 140,000,000
---Anime Version- 330,000,000
Future Android 18- 250,000,000
Future Android 17- 270,000,000

Arrival of the Androids

Goku- 5,700,000
--Super Saiyan- 285,000,000
--Sick- 200,000,000 (and dropping)
Vegeta- 6,000,000
--Super Saiyan: 300,000,000
---Post-energy drain- 260,000,000
---Post-Big Bang Attack- 230,000,000
Trunks- 4,300,000
--Super Saiyan- 215,000,000
Piccolo- 205,000,000
Gohan- 5,800,000
Krillin- 4,200,000
Tien- 2,500,000
Yamcha- 1,500,000

Android 20- 100,000,000
--Vegeta and Piccolo's ki: 160,000,000
Android 19- 90,000,000
--Vegeta and Goku's ki: 225,000,000
Android 18- 375,000,000
Android 17- 400,000,000
Android 16- 700,000,000

Return of Cooler

Goku- 5,700,000
--Super Saiyan- 285,000,000
Vegeta- 6,000,000
--Super Saiyan: 300,000,000
Piccolo- 410,000,000
Gohan- 5,800,000
Krillin- 4,200,000

Metal Cooler- 250,000,000
--First Repair- 500,000,000
--Second Repair- 700,000,000

Super Android 13

Piccolo- 410,000,000
Vegeta- 6,000,000
--Super Saiyan: 300,000,000
Goku- 5,700,000
--Super Saiyan- 285,000,000
Trunks- 4,300,000
--Super Saiyan- 215,000,000

Android 13- 300,000,000
--Super Android 13- 600,000,000
Android 14- 185,000,000
Android 15- 280,000,000

Imperfect Cell Arc

Imperfect Cell Initial- 335,000,000
--Post-human meal- 700,000,000
Piccolo: 410,000,000
--Exhausted- 320,000,000
--Exhausted and Beaten (by Cell)- 275,000,000
---Light Grenade- 550,000,000

Birth of Perfect Cell

Cell-
--Semi-Perfect- 1,100,000,000
--Initial Perfect- 2,000,000,000

Vegeta- 18,720,000
--Super Saiyan- 936,000,000
--Super Saiyan Grade 2- 1,404,000,000
---Final Flash- 7,000,000,000
Trunks: 17,400,000
--Super Saiyan- 870,000,000
--Super Saiyan Grade 2- 1,305,000,000
--Super Saiyan Grade 3- 2,349,000,000

Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan

Goku- 34,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 1,700,000,000
---+Friends' Energy- 6,000,000,000
Vegeta- 20,000,000
--Super Saiyan Grade II- 1,500,000,000
Trunks- 18,800,000
--Super Saiyan Grade II- 1,410,000,000
Piccolo- 1,200,000,000
Gohan- 21,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 1,050,000,000

Broly- 44,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 2,200,000,0000
--Legendary Super Saiyan- 4,400,000,000

Cell Games

Gohan- 90,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 4,500,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 9,000,000,000
Goku- 72,000,000
--50% Power- 1,800,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 3,600,000,000
---Instant Super Kamehameha- 8,000,000,000
--Post-Super Kamehameha- 1,000,000,000
Vegeta- 50,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 2,500,000,000
Trunks- 46,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 2,300,000,000
Piccolo- 1,300,000,000

Perfect Cell-
--Against Goku- 4,200,000,000
--Full Power- 6,300,000,000
--Super Perfect-- 8,400,000,000
Cell Juniors- 2,400,000,000
--Cell Junior that the humans actually hit in filler: 300,000

Otherworld Tournament

Pikkon- 5,500,000
--Burning Shot- 11,000,000,000
Goku- 82,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 4,100,000,000
0libu- 70,000,000

Super Perfect Cell- 8,400,000,000
Freeza- 160,000,000
King Cold- 130,000,000

Bojack Unbound

Gohan- 90,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 4,500,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 9,000,000,000
Trunks- 52,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 2,600,000,000
Vegeta- 50,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 2,500,000,000
Piccolo- 1,500,000,000

Bojack- 3,400,000,000
--Super Bojack- 5,100,000,000
Bido- 3,000,000,000
Zangya- 2,600,000,000
Bujin- 2,400,000,000
Kogu- 400,000,000
--Super Kogu- 600,000,000

Broly: Second Coming

Gohan- 70,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 3,500,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 7,000,000,000
Trunks- 38,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 1,900,000,000
Goten- 34,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 1,700,000,000

Broly- 86,000,000
-Super Saiyan- 4,300,000,000
-Legendary Super Saiyan- 8,600,000,000

BUU SAGA

Tournament

Goku- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 5,000,000,000
---Suppressed (vs Yakon)- 338,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 40,000,000,000
Vegeta- 80,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 4,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 8,000,000,000
---Hidden Power- 10,000,000,000
Gohan- 70,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 3,500,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 7,000,000,000
---Standing ki (sensed by Kaioshin at the tournament)- 2,300,000,000
East Kaioshin- 2,400,000,000
Piccolo- 1,800,000,000
Trunks- 38,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 1,900,000,000
Goten- 34,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 1,700,000,000
Kibito- 66,000,000

Krillin- 4,000,000
Tien- 3,600,000
Yamcha- 1,500,000
Chiaotzu- 1,400,000

Babidi Saga

Goku- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 5,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 40,000,000,000
Majin Vegeta- 105,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 5,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000
---Suicide Attack- 40,000,000,000

Gotenks (pre-ROSAT)-
--Super Saiyan- 18,000,000,000

Dabura- 6,300,000,000
Yakon- 90,000,000
Pui Pui- 800,000
Yamu- 12
Spovovitch- 11

Fat Buu-
--Initial- 6,500,000,000
--First Power Up (vs Dabura)- 12,000,000,000
--Second Power Up (vs Vegeta)- 15,000,000,000
--Third Power Up (splitting)- 72,000,000,000
Good Buu- 27,000,000,00
Evil Buu- 45,000,000,000

Fusion Saga

Vegetto- 19,475,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 973,750,000,000

Ultimate Gohan- 122,000,000,000

Gotenks (post-ROSAT)-
--Super Saiyan- 22,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 88,000,000,000

Kibito Kai- 6,781,500,000

Trunks- 44,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 2,200,000,000

Goten- 44,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 2,200,000,000

Super Buu- 72,000,000,000
--Piccolo absorbed- 74,000,000,000
--Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed- 78,000,000,000
--Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed- 162,000,000,000
--Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed- 200,000,000,000


(rounded a tiny bit)

Kid Buu Returns

Goku- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 5,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 40,000,000,000
---Suppressed (vs Fat Buu)- 16,000,000,000
Mr.Buu- 37,000,000,000
Vegeta- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000

Kid Buu- 45,000,000,000
--South Kaioshin absorbed (flashback)- 79,000,000,000

South Kaioshin- 34,000,000,000
West Kaioshin- 5,000,000,00
North Kaioshin- 4,000,000,000
Grand Kaioshin- 3,000,000,000
East Kaioshin- 2,400,000,000
Old Kai- 30,000,000


Fusion Reborn

Gogeta- 1,025,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 51,250,000,000

Goku- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 5,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 40,000,000,000

Vegeta- 105,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 5,250,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,500,000,000

Janemba- 18,000,000
--Super Janemba- 36,000,000,000
---Injured- 32,000,000,000

Wrath of the Dragon

Goku- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 40,000,000,000
---Dragon Fist- 4,000,000,000,000,000

Gotenks-
--Super Saiyan- 22,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 88,000,000,000

Vegeta- 105,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,500,000,000

Trunks- 44,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 2,200,000,000

Goten- 44,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 2,200,000,000

Gohan- 122,000,000,000
--Toei-nerfed- 9

Hirudegarn-
--First Form- 75,000,000,000
--Second Form- 150,000,000,000
---Tail cut off- 50,000,000,000

[dbzfan7]

The anime fight was rather short (though maybe a little more of it occurred off screen). SK and Buu charge at each other and collide. Buu double-axe handles South Kaioshin and South Kaioshin responds by grabbing Buu and headbutting him, which actually seems to give him pain. Buu tries to kick SK but SK blocks it. He then tries to punch SK but SK catches Kid Buu's punch and, with all of his might, rips Buu's arm off, much to Buu's shock. Kid Buu gets mad, quickly regrows his arm, and throws an energy ball, which SK cancels out with his own, more charged energy ball. Kid Buu dodges the attack (though at least seems alerted by it) and South Kaioshin tries to hit him again. Buu appears to teleport when he dodges SK's hit, and then delivers a solid kick to the back. SK's energy ball comes back to track Buu, but Buu swallows it (wtf?). SK is now covered in wounds and has trouble standing up, just from that one kick. It's at this time Buu decides to absorb him.

So yeah, IMO, he's a lot weaker than Buu here.

I find that assuming South Kaioshin was much weaker than Kid Buu works best when trying to fit together the anime and the implications about Good Buu's power; he should have both Kaioshin in him, and have their power. Though I'm thinking I have Good Buu a little too close to Kid Buu at 84-86% of him. I figure if they have the same skills and abilities, and power is all that matters, then that sort of advantage should let Kid Buu have the upper hand the way he did... but I'm not sure.

EDIT: "Somehow" can just mean "he was somehow able to integrate someone into his body". Either interpretation is valid; it doesn't have to mean SK > Kid Buu.

I guess what Kibitoshin meant was that "he was somehow absorbed" as in he got absorbed while the other Kaioshin were killed and he didn't know how South Kaioshin was absorbed because he wasn't there to see how and just saw Buff Boo and put two and two together after Dai Kaioshins absorption.

Kid Boo seemed to be messing around with Mr. Boo. All Mr.Boo got in was one head butt (which did annoy Kid Boo), a ki blast (which Kid Boo regernated from with what looked like he took no damage), and a counter. None of which really affected Kid Boo. Kid Boo didn't bother using his hands in one panel. It seems like Mr. Boo's durability is what kept him lasting so long.

[RandomGuy96]

Buu's hits seemed to affect Buu- he has a pained look on his face (or, in the case of the blast, surprised) whenever he got hit. He's certainly at least in the same realm. As for the blast: you can just as easily say that KB punching GB's head off "did no damage" because he easily regenerated it.

From what we saw of the fight, Kid Buu was dominating, but Good Buu wasn't getting completely steam rolled either. They run at each other, KB kicks GB in the face. GB recovers and charges again. This time, KB is the one who gets hit, with a headbutt. He gets pissed and grabs GB by the head, and slams him into the ground. GB recovers again and fires a ki blast that takes off half of KB's body. KB is shocked for a second but regenerates. He retaliates by charging and taking GB's head off, but GB regenerates from that as well. They charge at each other again, KB dodges GB's punch and elbows him. He puts GB in a headlock, and GB counters by grabbing him by the neck and slamming him into the ground. He attempts to fire a Candy Beam but KB dodges and blows a hole through him. GB regenerates (though with seemingly more difficulty than last time) and starts trading a series of non-connecting blows with KB. Just from this, they seemed pretty close. Or at least GB can still fight him somewhat evenly.

After that, of course, the fight drags out a bit off-screen, and when we return KB is just beating up GB, but GB is still recovering, and his disadvantage at the later part of the fight can mostly be contributed to his power falling quicker than KB's due to taking more damage in the off-screen fight, assuming it went like the on-screen fight, with Kid Buu clearly in the lead (cause KB is still decently stronger than him). And while GB is of course durable just on account of being a Buu, we still know that a Buu won't last very long when a fighter waaaaaaay stronger than him just keeps attacking; see Buuhan vs Vegetto and Super Buu vs Gohan, or arguably even Gotenks vs Super Buu. Didn't GB also tackle and restrain Kid Buu, or was that just the anime?

He of course does much better in the anime.

And that one panel of him appearing to screw around near the end doesn't cancel out the rest of the fight, where he looked serious/mad, just like his fooling around with Goku in a few panels doesn't mean he was toying with him the whole fight. Now Kid Buu vs Vegeta, THAT was toying.

[dbzfan7]

Buu's hits seemed to affect Buu- he has a pained look on his face (or, in the case of the blast, surprised) whenever he got hit. He's certainly at least in the same realm. As for the blast: you can just as easily say that KB punching GB's head off "did no damage" because he easily regenerated it.

From what we saw of the fight, Kid Buu was dominating, but Good Buu wasn't getting completely steam rolled either. They run at each other, KB kicks GB in the face. GB recovers and charges again. This time, KB is the one who gets hit, with a headbutt. He gets pissed and grabs GB by the head, and slams him into the ground. GB recovers again and fires a ki blast that takes off half of KB's body. KB is shocked for a second but regenerates. He retaliates by charging and taking GB's head off, but GB regenerates from that as well. They charge at each other again, KB dodges GB's punch and elbows him. He puts GB in a headlock, and GB counters by grabbing him by the neck and slamming him into the ground. He attempts to fire a Candy Beam but KB dodges and blows a hole through him. GB regenerates (though with seemingly more difficulty than last time) and starts trading a series of non-connecting blows with KB. Just from this, they seemed pretty close.

After that, of course, the fight drags out a bit off-screen, and when we return KB is just beating up GB, but GB is still recovering, and his disadvantage at the later part of the fight can mostly be contributed to his power falling quicker than KB's due to taking more damage (cause KB is still decently stronger than him). And while GB is of course durable just on account of being a Buu, we still know that a Buu won't last very long when a fighter waaaaaaay stronger than him just keeps attacking; see Buuhan vs Vegetto and Super Buu vs Gohan, or arguably even Gotenks vs Super Buu.

And that one panel of him appearing to screw around near the end doesn't cancel out the rest of the fight, where he looked serious/mad, just like his fooling around with Goku in a few panels doesn't mean he was toying with him the whole fight.

Seems pretty one sided to me. Not as one sided as Mr. Boo's fight with Evil Boo, but still pretty one sided. Seems like Mr. Boo is the only one who is actually taking damage. The fight IMO just looked like all Mr. Boo did was piss off Kid Boo. If they were close then he should have at least done some damage, but he didn't cause any. Seemed like Kid Boo underestimated Mr. Boo and corrected his mistake later on. Goku even says Boo is stalling and messing around on purpose.

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”
*Boo is clearly lollygagging*

Following everything Goku and Vegeta say about their fight it sounds like Boo is getting the crap kicked out of him and is only holding on so well because of his extreme durability and stamina. I have Mr. Boo currently 70% Kid Boo. Enough to put up a little fight, but get stomped if Kid Boo really wanted to end it. But that's just my opinion and view point.

[RandomGuy96]

Maybe he should be higher. 70% would imply no fight at all, just a stomp. I don't think there's a single example of someone at that kind of disadvantage putting up any kind of fight. The closest I can think of is Reccoome vs Vegeta, where fanon commonly puts Reccoome at 40,000, but even that doesn't really work here because Mr.Buu and Kid Buu have the same skills and physical atrributes, in contrast to Vegeta vs Reccoome, where the former was much mores skilled but the latter just took the punishment (I have Recoome at 36,000). If Good Buu used skill and good techniques to put up a fight, maybe I'd buy it, but he really didn't.

I'd have him at 80% of Kid Buu... the fight he put up against Kid Buu prior to the cutaway to the Dragon Balls (after which the off-screen fight apparently became more one-sided) seems on par with the one that Freeza put up against a not holding back Goku; they both land three or so hits that seem to hurt their opponent, just not inflict any lasting damage, and manage to recover from numerous hits despite grievous injuries. The only real difference is that Freeza had one or two good techniques (Nova Strike and Death Saucer) that Good Buu didn't, so it may appear that he did better just based on the damaging hit he got in with the barrier alone (though that's mostly because Goku was mad and wanted to kill Freeza right there, and so basically stood still to fire his Kamehameha; imagine if Kid Buu had just stayed still and fired a Kamehameha while Good Buu was using his Chocolate Beam). Also, and probably most importantly, when Freeza's power started falling from the damage he received, Goku just called it quits rather than continuing to attack him; if he had, it would have turned into a one-sided beatdown like the later parts of Good Buu vs Kid Buu, only Freeza wouldn't have lasted as long due to lack of regeneration.

That quote was referring to his fight with Goku... so was Kid Buu toying with Goku too, and actually strong enough to roflstomp him the whole time?

But yeah 80% seems about right, IMO. The only reason I have him higher (84%) is because I go with Dai Kaioshin + South Kaioshin = Good Buu, and the anime version of the South Kaioshin vs Kid Buu fight, where Kid Buu seemed just much faster and stronger than South Kaioshin.

[Kaboom]

I'm mostly on board with the "Mister Boo only lasted so long because he's a Boo" idea. He really didn't do anything that Vegeta didn't or couldn't do, except he got more chances to bounce back and do it because he's infinitely more resilient. Plus Pure Boo seems to be playing around with him to some extent rather than directly going in for the kill.

So Mr. Boo COULD have somehow regained his prior full "Fat Boo" power, or he could still be reduced to something less. Heck, he could be even weaker than Vegeta. I don't think the fight would really pan out any differently either way.

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta could never hit Buu or make him put on a serious face, so no, Kid Buu being multi-folds above Good Buu makes no sense. That fight definitely did not depict a multi-fold difference. It actually was basically identical to Super Buu vs SS3 Gotenks IMO...

And again, he appeared to be toying with Goku too, yet I never see people argue that Goku is multi folds below Kid Buu. Even though you can actually make a decent case for that.

I don't see why he wouldn't be stronger than he was last time if you believe Pure Evil Buu < Kid Buu.

[dbzfan7]

Maybe he should be higher. 70% would imply no fight at all, just a stomp. I don't think there's a single example of someone at that kind of disadvantage putting up any kind of fight. The closest I can think of is Reccoome vs Vegeta, where fanon commonly puts Reccoome at 40,000, but even that doesn't really work here because Mr.Buu and Kid Buu have the same skills and physical atrributes, in contrast to Vegeta vs Reccoome, where the former was much mores skilled but the latter just took the punishment (I have Recoome at 36,000). If Good Buu used skill and good techniques to put up a fight, maybe I'd buy it, but he really didn't.

I'd have him at 80% of Kid Buu... the fight he put up against Kid Buu prior to the cutaway to the Dragon Balls (after which the off-screen fight apparently became more one-sided) seems on par with the one that Freeza put up against a not holding back Goku; they both land three or so hits that seem to hurt their opponent, just not inflict any lasting damage, and manage to recover from numerous hits despite grievous injuries. The only real difference is that Freeza had one or two good techniques (Nova Strike and Death Saucer) that Good Buu didn't, so it may appear that he did better just based on the damaging hit he got in with the barrier alone (though that's mostly because Goku was mad and wanted to kill Freeza right there, and so basically stood still to fire his Kamehameha; imagine if Kid Buu had just stayed still and fired a Kamehameha while Good Buu was using his Chocolate Beam). Also, and probably most importantly, when Freeza's power started falling from the damage he received, Goku just called it quits rather than continuing to attack him; if he had, it would have turned into a one-sided beatdown like the later parts of Good Buu vs Kid Buu, only Freeza wouldn't have lasted as long due to lack of regeneration.

That quote was referring to his fight with Goku... so was Kid Buu toying with Goku too, and actually strong enough to roflstomp him the whole time?

But yeah 80% seems about right, IMO. The only reason I have him higher (84%) is because I go with Dai Kaioshin + South Kaioshin = Good Buu, and the anime version of the South Kaioshin vs Kid Buu fight, where Kid Buu seemed just much faster and stronger than South Kaioshin.

I personally consider 70% for someone who can put up a little fight. As in can occasionally get a few hits in, but can't really do too much. I also attribute his insane durability and stamina to this as well. The reason Kid Boo was toying with Goku at that point because even though they go blow for blow, Goku is the only one getting weaker while he starts off fresh even though he takes damage. Kid Boo fell asleep out of nowhere so this doesn't seem out of right field his bizarre behavior. Kid Boo also uses the candy beam on Goku, so Goku had to be able to damage him at first to push that.

But hey your stance is just as valid as mine.

Moving on what about the Kaioshin. I have them all close to each other except South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin. I feel Dai Kaioshin should be a little stronger than the others besides South. I don't remember if there is any specific placements for the others though.