SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

[MDSTSSJ]

This is an opinion from OWmyDragon Ballz that I like and one of the main reasons that SSJ3 Goku ( dead or alive ) is stronger than people here think:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”

¨So in other words, Goku did claim he was going to go all out, but then admits that he showed off and thought he could do better that way, and that lead to Goku's stamina to start dropping due to that mistake he made. Piccolo questioning Goku if he could have won or not is proof enough that Goku was holding back because at the time, the fight could have gone both ways due to Goku stalling and playing around with Boo. Goku's energy time on earth further supports me. He had to hold back because he intended SSJ Gotenks to defeat him and it also would have possibly drained up the remaining time he had left¨

Is stated that Goku hide his true powers several times from the very beginning of the Boo´s Arc.

[Draken]

Yea well you can't hide SSJ3 Goku = 4x stronger than SSJ2 Goku = Same strength as SSJ2 Vegeta. Which still places SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku, his "hidden power" doesn't really work when we have his set multiplier.

[Kamiccolo9]

No one has said that Goku is weak. He's just nothing compared to the high-end Buu Arc powers. Aside from Gohan, no single character can match the super strong characters like Gotenks, Super Buu, and Vegetto, who are fusions, or basically a fusion.

[RandomGuy96]

It doesn't really matter where SS Gotenks stands in relation to SS3 Goku as long as he's strong enough to beat Fat Buu. And it doesn't really matter how strong Fat Buu is; he can only be like 35% of SS3 Goku and things would still make sense, since Goku was holding back and he only has to be strong enough that Goku and Vegeta can't defeat him as a team as SS2s. Obligatory power levels...

Fat Buu- 18,000,000,000
Fat Buu (enraged to the point of splitting) - 90,000,000,000
SS Gotenks (pre)- 21,000,000,000
SS3 Goku- 42,000,000,000
SS Gotenks (post)- 27,500,000,000
SS3 Gotenks- 220,000,000,000
Super Buu- 180,000,000,000

SS Gotenks pre > SS3 Goku is only said at a time where Goku was clearly exaggerating things and trying to calm everyone, unlike the situation with Super Buu, where all of his friends and family had been killed/absorbed and he had the chance to fight Super Buu.

The only real problem here is the implications about BASE Gotenks, but I ignore those because both of them are gag scenes.

Goku is crap in the Buu Saga anyway. He's not even really relevant against Kid Buu, at least not any more than Good Buu is; he fights him for a minute (seriously, their fight was SHORT), admits he has no chance at winning, and then reverts to base when he tries firing a powerful Kamehameha, the only thing that would actually give him a chance. Even without that being factored in, at the end of his and Buu's very short scuffle, Goku was covered in bruises, losing energy, and admitted he couldn't win, while Kid Buu was screwing around. Kid Buu would've beaten down Goku the same way he beat down Good Buu if this fight had gone on any longer, only Goku wouldn't last as long.

[MDSTSSJ]

No one has said that Goku is weak. He's just nothing compared to the high-end Buu Arc powers. Aside from Gohan, no single character can match the super strong characters like Gotenks, Super Buu, and Vegetto, who are fusions, or basically a fusion.

Yeah I know but, I refer to x8 and up gap between them that many people here think. I respect everybody opinion but I totally disagree.

I mean, I´m a believer what is established in the Super Exciting Guides: SSJ2 x2 than SSJ1 ( for me is the FPSSJ ), SSJ3 x4 than SSJ2.

Gaps like x2 are quite big, x4 is a really big difference. Big differences which are achievable and can be overcome of course.

[Kamiccolo9]

No one has said that Goku is weak. He's just nothing compared to the high-end Buu Arc powers. Aside from Gohan, no single character can match the super strong characters like Gotenks, Super Buu, and Vegetto, who are fusions, or basically a fusion.

Yeah I know but, I refer to x8 and up gap between them that many people here think. I respect everybody opinion but I totally disagree.

I mean, I´m a believer what is established in the Super Exciting Guides: SSJ2 x2 than SSJ1 ( for me is the FPSSJ ), SSJ3 x4 than SSJ2.

Gaps like x2 are quite big, x4 is a really big difference. Big differences which are achievable and can be overcome of course.

The thing is, though, if SSJ Gotenks is roughly equal to SSJ3 Goku, which is what is implied, then SSJ3 Gotenks would have to be 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, using those multipliers. Super Buu would be close to the same, and Gohan and the higher level Buu's would be much stronger than that, implying huge gaps between Goku and Gohan.

[RandomGuy96]

Everything would be sooooooo much easier if SS3 had a different multiplier depending on who uses it (which it should, since it's supposed to bring out your full potential to its limits). But alas, nope. So Gotenks being multi-folds above Goku is basically manga fact.

[dbzfan7]

Everything would be sooooooo much easier if SS3 had a different multiplier depending on who uses it (which it should, since it's supposed to bring out your full potential to its limits). But alas, nope. So Gotenks being multi-folds above Goku is basically manga fact.

I don't like SSJ2's multiplier. I think it's too small. I accept it though as what it is.

[Draken]

Everything would be sooooooo much easier if SS3 had a different multiplier depending on who uses it (which it should, since it's supposed to bring out your full potential to its limits). But alas, nope. So Gotenks being multi-folds above Goku is basically manga fact.

I don't like SSJ2's multiplier. I think it's too small. I accept it though as what it is.

Well the characters themselves barely noticed a difference with SSJ2, even up till the Buu Saga, so I just use Gohan had a rage boost on top to have it make sense, being his true power and all.

[dbzfan7]

Everything would be sooooooo much easier if SS3 had a different multiplier depending on who uses it (which it should, since it's supposed to bring out your full potential to its limits). But alas, nope. So Gotenks being multi-folds above Goku is basically manga fact.

I don't like SSJ2's multiplier. I think it's too small. I accept it though as what it is.

Well the characters themselves barely noticed a difference with SSJ2, even up till the Buu Saga, so I just use Gohan had a rage boost on top to have it make sense, being his true power and all.

Fair enough.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't see what's wrong with the multiplier, other than Gohan's final push during the Kamehameha, and to me it looked pretty obvious that he powered up from beyond 'less than half' in that instance.

[Draken]

No one has said that Goku is weak. He's just nothing compared to the high-end Buu Arc powers. Aside from Gohan, no single character can match the super strong characters like Gotenks, Super Buu, and Vegetto, who are fusions, or basically a fusion.

Yeah I know but, I refer to x8 and up gap between them that many people here think. I respect everybody opinion but I totally disagree.

I mean, I´m a believer what is established in the Super Exciting Guides: SSJ2 x2 than SSJ1 ( for me is the FPSSJ ), SSJ3 x4 than SSJ2.

Gaps like x2 are quite big, x4 is a really big difference. Big differences which are achievable and can be overcome of course.

Let's put things into perspective. Fat Buu > Goku + Vegeta SSJ2. SSJ3 is a 4x gap. One example we have of this is Raditz vs Goku and Piccolo. Raditz was roughly 3x stronger and could stomp those 2. Let's be wank to Goku and say Fat Buu is only 2x stronger than his SSJ2. SSJ2 Goku = 1. Then SSJ3 Goku would be a 4. Fat Buu = 2. Then SSJ Gotenks has to be strong enough to beat Fat Buu, but it's a "nasty gamble", despite the implications and Goku's statement that have Gotenks much stronger. Let's say SSJ Gotenks (Pre) = 2.1. Then he goes into the RoSaT, but let's assume for some odd reason he barely got any stronger. SSJ Gotenks (Post) = 2.2. Then Gotenks goes SSJ3 and is 8.8. Best case scenario for Goku, Gotenks is more than 2x stronger than him. Goku can't overcome that gap without either a new transformation, bullshit plot hax, or SSG. It's never happened.

[MDSTSSJ]

No one has said that Goku is weak. He's just nothing compared to the high-end Buu Arc powers. Aside from Gohan, no single character can match the super strong characters like Gotenks, Super Buu, and Vegetto, who are fusions, or basically a fusion.

Yeah I know but, I refer to x8 and up gap between them that many people here think. I respect everybody opinion but I totally disagree.

I mean, I´m a believer what is established in the Super Exciting Guides: SSJ2 x2 than SSJ1 ( for me is the FPSSJ ), SSJ3 x4 than SSJ2.

Gaps like x2 are quite big, x4 is a really big difference. Big differences which are achievable and can be overcome of course.

The thing is, though, if SSJ Gotenks is roughly equal to SSJ3 Goku, which is what is implied, then SSJ3 Gotenks would have to be 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, using those multipliers. Super Buu would be close to the same, and Gohan and the higher level Buu's would be much stronger than that, implying huge gaps between Goku and Gohan.

Yeah I agree with you in the most part but, I have problems with SSJ Gotenks = SSJ3 Kakarotto implied thing because SSJ3 Goku is hidden his true SSJ3 powers to everyone and all times in the shitty and inconsistent Boo Saga period. Is stated that Goku is a total lier in the most part and also hides his powers on several occasions to not hurt the Vegeta´s pride.

[Draken]

Yeah I agree with you in the most part but, I have problems with SSJ Gotenks = SSJ3 Kakarotto implied thing because SSJ3 Goku is hidden his true SSJ3 powers to everyone and all times in the shitty and inconsistent Boo Saga period. Is stated that Goku is a total lier in the most part and also hides his powers on several occasions to not hurt the Vegeta´s pride.

Uh, in your own quote Goku said he didn't hide his power to save Vegeta's pride...

Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”

[dbzfan7]

I know Goku had lied once. But I don't know why people say he is a chronic liar to argue points. He just dodged the question more than anything. When people say Goku is a chronic liar I imagine him in the Boo saga with lying tourettes where he would just snap at people with lies left and right with a nervous twitch.

[MDSTSSJ]

Yeah I agree with you in the most part but, I have problems with SSJ Gotenks = SSJ3 Kakarotto implied thing because SSJ3 Goku is hidden his true SSJ3 powers to everyone and all times in the shitty and inconsistent Boo Saga period. Is stated that Goku is a total lier in the most part and also hides his powers on several occasions to not hurt the Vegeta´s pride.

Uh, in your own quote Goku said he didn't hide his power to save Vegeta's pride...

Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”

Wait:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”

He refers to a One Minute thing Vs One blast thing if he was fused.

[Draken]

You bolded it for me.

"Don't hesitate for my sake"
"I haven't gotten the chance"
"So you weren't think of me..."

I have no idea what you're referring. Goku can 1-shot Pure Buu as Vegetto, we all know that.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The compulsive liar argument is absurd to say the least. I only have a problem with Gotenks and Gohan being up to 10 times stronger do to personal preference. I however will not argue against it because it's what's implied.

[RandomGuy96]

Ditto. SS Gotenks pre > Fat Buu is a fact and is stated about half a dozen times, but that doesn't mean SS Gotenks > SS3 Goku ever, because as Kaboom pointed out there can be a very big gap between Fat Buu and Goku.

Also, I'd just like to point out that Goku was getting his ass whooped by Pure Buu. People often exaggerate his performance there- he fought evenly with Kid Buu for about a minute before he admitted he couldn't win, and then Buu screwed around while Goku was covered in scratches, losing power, and complaining that Buu wasn't even taking him seriously. He's clearly not top tier in this saga if he's getting toyed with by one of the weakest forms of the main villain.

[MDSTSSJ]

I know Goku had lied once. But I don't know why people say he is a chronic liar to argue points. He just dodged the question more than anything. When people say Goku is a chronic liar I imagine him in the Boo saga with lying tourettes where he would just snap at people with lies left and right with a nervous twitch.

Well, lies I remember:

Goku lies when he tells Buu that Gotenks is stronger than.

Goku lies to Piccolo (who was really surprised by the power of SSJ3 ) when he asks Goku if he could have defeated Buu and he says no.

In the fight against Majin Vegeta, he does´t show his true powers to not hurt Vegeta's pride. Yeah is not a lie, is more a dodged thing.

Not go all out from the beginning against Pure Boo because of the Vegeta´s pride.