Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Undertaker
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by Undertaker » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:36 am
rereboy wrote:Mjb1985 wrote:Goku straight up said that Super Buu would kill him and Vegeta. How does it not get clearer than that?
Well, its possible that
Goku was referring to the fact they were tiny at the moment. I don't believe that but I guess its possible. Either, like I said, more than a 90% degree of certainty that Super Buu is stronger.
Nooooo!!! This is wrong, so wrong and can't be more than wrong
Size had no part in what Goku said but strength which is why he wanted to used fusion, besides they would return to normal when they are outside
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BejitaSama
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by BejitaSama » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:37 am
Goku always want to fuse, even against Fat Buu.
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rereboy
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by rereboy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:40 am
Undertaker wrote:besides they would return to normal when they are outside
I agree that Goku wasn't talking about their size, but how would Goku know that they would return to normal once they got outside? He hoped they would but he had no idea to actually know that.
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Mjb1985
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by Mjb1985 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:51 am
I'm sure Vegetto counted on it considering it was his plan.
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PerfectFreeza
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by PerfectFreeza » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:00 am
How would pulling out Good Buu help them defeat Buu, if it was due to size?
Goku said as Vegetto, they would annihilate Super Buu and then leave.
The size thing is just baseless theory.And Goku lying is also baseless.
If he was really greater than Super buu, then he would have said he could have defeat Super Buu too, not just only Fat Buu.He met with him after all.
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rereboy
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by rereboy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:05 am
Mjb1985 wrote:I'm sure Vegetto counted on it considering it was his plan.
I agree. But he merely counted on it, he had no way to be sure it would work out that way. Things could have worked out differently. For example, he never expected to defuse inside of Buu. Yet he did.
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:06 am
BejitaSama wrote:Goku always want to fuse, even against Fat Buu.
No he didn't
.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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rereboy
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by rereboy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:11 am
TheMightyOzaru wrote:BejitaSama wrote:Goku always want to fuse, even against Fat Buu.
No he didn't
.
When he returned to the lookout and they were talking about what to do Goku suggested fusion right away but since Gohan and Vegeta were gone, Goku had no one to fuse with. Then Mr. Popo suggested the kids.
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BejitaSama
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by BejitaSama » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:11 am
He did. He wanted to fuse with Bejita or Gohan.
Last edited by
BejitaSama on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PerfectFreeza
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by PerfectFreeza » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:12 am
He wanted to hide SSJ3 as much as he could.
It seemed that way to me, at least.
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BejitaSama
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by BejitaSama » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:13 am
So you have the right to make an interpretation of a fact (because you consider words as facts) but with the other sentence in Evil Buu we can't ? Ok
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:15 am
Just because he lied some times doesn't mean he was always lying. Goku doesn't have any good reason to lie about Evil Boo.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:17 am
BejitaSama wrote: He did. He wanted to fuse with Bejita or Gohan.
Only because he didn't want to waste the time he had on Earth =/. SSJ3 takes his time away, that was a last resort like he stated.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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rereboy
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by rereboy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:19 am
BejitaSama wrote:So you have the right to make an interpretation of a fact (because you consider words as facts) but with the other sentence in Evil Buu we can't ? Ok
Goku stated in the manga the reason for not wanting to save the world and kill Fat Buu by himself (by using his SSJ3) so its hardly a great leap to interpret that he preferred that the world was saved with fusion (even if he had to be a part of the fusion) instead of revealing SSJ3 and defeating Buu by himself.
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Mjb1985
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by Mjb1985 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:19 am
Sure but nothing suggested Goku was expecting to be tiny. He expected to be his size, he's just not strong enough to win.
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BejitaSama
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by BejitaSama » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:24 am
Just because he lied some times doesn't mean he was always lying. Goku doesn't have any good reason to lie about Evil Boo.
True, but it doesn't mean he wasn't liying too. He didn't have a reason to lie to Piccolo too. And it's not because you think he had no reason, that other people can't think he had.
Only because he didn't want to waste the time he had on Earth =/. SSJ3 takes his time away, that was a last resort like he stated.
Goku stated in the manga the reason for not wanting to save the world and kill Fat Buu by himself (by using his SSJ3) so its hardly a great leap to interpret that he preferred that the world was saved with fusion (even if he had to be a part of the fusion) instead of revealing SSJ3 and defeating Buu by himself.
Interpretation here too man. And fuse with Gohan or Bejita contradicts his next lie to Piccolo, which is "I want to let it to the boys". And we also didn't know why he lied to Piccolo about his abilty to beat Fat Buu.
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:27 am
That's not an interpretation, it's a straight up fact. Goku didn't need to fuse, he knows that. Does Goku's statement about him being able to beat Fat Buu during his fight with Pure Buu mean nothing to you?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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PerfectFreeza
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by PerfectFreeza » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:27 am
Time limit on the form, along with the fact, that Buu's power is unpredictable(''like a lie''), makes fusion a better option.On top of that, Goku didn't want to save the world himself.
You think Goku would rather be stuck permanently as Vegetto?Even though he refused them against Pure Buu?
What good would be removing Good Buu, if it was the size, that lowered his power?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:35 am
He suggested Fusion against Innocent Boo because he didn't want to use Super Saiyan 3, since he didn't want to waste his time on the Limit World.
He didn't want to kill Boo because he wanted to make the kids stronger than him, because he was supposed to stay dead. So he had to make new successors, since he thought that Gohan was dead, which is why he lied about not being sure if he could beat Boo.
He lied to Vegeta that they couldn't beat Evil Boo because...?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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rereboy
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by rereboy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:37 am
BejitaSama wrote:
Interpretation here too man. And fuse with Gohan or Bejita contradicts his next lie to Piccolo, which is "I want to let it to the boys". And we also didn't know why he lied to Piccolo about his abilty to beat Fat Buu.
He wanted to leave it to the boys because he didn't want to be the one (as a dead person, no longer part of their world) to destroy Buu and save the world. He flat out says this. Its stated. That's the explanation for the "lies". He didn't want them to just depend on him. Its basically, "no, don't think about me or what I could do regarding Buu, think about the boys, they are the future", "no, don't think about me, think about fusion".
If he had said that he was confident that he could destroy him, they would ask him to do so, they would try to convince him. He didn't want that, he wanted them focused on solutions that required their own power.
You keep saying that its not explained or that there's no reason, when Goku flat out admits the reason for his concealment and preference towards another one killing Buu.
