Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Gyt Kaliba]

Okay, we get it, you guys don't care about half the stuff in here anymore. Do you really need to complain about it when there's actually nothing in the page itself to rile you up though?

[TheMightyOzaru]

I just thought Beers showing up would be funny.

[AquaTeamV3]

I kinda like how this has been set up. Buu was so calm because the entire time the tournament was going exactly how he planned it. Really his only goal was to get a fight with Vegetto, and since XXI screwed that up he's understandably ticked off. Vegetto was the only one who would give Buu any semblance of a challenge, so with him out Buu essentially showed up for nothing. May as well get some new abilities while he's here.

[Hellspawn28]

Buu is totally going to be banned from the tournament now. I still feel like all of this is happening too soon. I guess they finally want to get this book done and over with.

[RandomGuy96]

Ditto. They haven't even gotten to the semi-finals yet. This, combined with the lack of information and specials on many universes, makes me think that the comic will still be going on except Zen Buu, the most interesting thing here, is going to be removed waaaay too early. It would be really weird for him to be removed before he gets his own special, though.

Hmm... maybe it's all just a dream...?

[dbzfan7]

Ditto. They haven't even gotten to the semi-finals yet. This, combined with the lack of information and specials on many universes, makes me think that the comic will still be going on except Zen Buu, the most interesting thing here, is going to be removed waaaay too early. It would be really weird for him to be removed before he gets his own special, though.

Hmm... maybe it's all just a dream...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdhhQhqi_AE

But seriously that would be stupid. Also could this be the end of the tournament.

[Saiga]

Zen Boo being sent home would be PIS on his part because he should be capable of avoiding any attempt at that. He can disable the technology and even if they team up they won't be able to do jack to him unless they kill him (which I doubt they're capable of).

[RandomGuy96]

He also has that Ultra Armor capable of cutting through Vegetto like butter and power superior to SS2 Vegetto.

All he has to do is survive for five seconds, and then all 18 universes are fucked.

[Draken]

He also has that Ultra Armor capable of cutting through Vegetto like butter and power superior to SS2 Vegetto.

All he has to do is survive for five seconds, and then all 18 universes are fucked.

That's another thing since when the fuck could he absorb non-organic matter? O_O.

Well if the Freeza fight is anything to go by, Buu is right fucked ain't he?

[RandomGuy96]

He's a piece of bubblegum animated by magic, he can do whatever he wants.

The manga Freeza fight actually was around five minutes, maybe a little more, after Freeza said it would be five minutes.

[miguelnuva1]

Zen Boo being sent home would be PIS on his part because he should be capable of avoiding any attempt at that. He can disable the technology and even if they team up they won't be able to do jack to him unless they kill him (which I doubt they're capable of).

Vegito can beat Zen Buu easily with the Majin Punisher.

[Draken]

He's a piece of bubblegum animated by magic, he can do whatever he wants.

The manga Freeza fight actually was around five minutes, maybe a little more, after Freeza said it would be five minutes.

You can tell time through panels now?

[Salagir2]

I have to respect Salagir for being calm and willing to jump in on the debates. There's been some really mean hateful stuff posted in this topic towards him over the months.

Oh yes, it was fun! Especially DNA saying I'm a fucker.
I hope you're not the same DNA who make Portuguese translation, that would be... awkward.

Don't worry, I can take the shit. After all, I'm saying bad things all the time against Toei, but without the anime, I wouldn't have heard of DB in my life and it still had great moments. Sometimes we just like to be bastards with authors. After all, they don't listen...

Salagir, what multipliers do you have for Oozaru & Super Saiyan forms?

I prefer not to answer that. I already lost too much time with Nappa's debate ;p PLs and multipliers are a sure thing to not agree on anything

About Cold being not above freeza, why powering him up, and why didn't he beat the crap of trunks then ?

RandomGuy96 made a good point explaining why clearly Cold isn't stronger than Freeza.
But everything can be bent a little (by me) and change that. I changed that because I had my own view on the "frost demons".
* When people talk about Freeza's Ki, as most of them never saw him, we don't know who's ki they are actually talking about.
* Number 1 in the universe was used by Vegeta before. By Barta also for speed, although even Ginyu might be faster than him. Also, isn't Coola number 1 and not his brother then ? (anime only) And it's also Freeza's revenge. His father isn't going to cut him every 2 lines saying "Nope, I am the strongest". To conclude, as a father preparing his son to take his place, it's also possible that he doesn't bother him with that.
* Transforming takes time. Cold saw that Trunks doesn't lose time. If Cold transforms, he'll be cut in two. That's why he tried to trick him instead of fighting on the spot. When the trick didn't work, Cold didn't have time to transform.
* Demons can't control themselves when powering up too much, that's why they go in reduced form (said by freeza). I decided that if Cold transforms, he destroys a little too much around him. That's why he would think twice before doing that. You will see that told in the fanfic "One way", first chapter released a few hours ago. In DBM Cold now controls himself like his sons. This is a personal add-on, but it goes by DBZ logic.

To conclude : I agree that Toriyama may have intended for Cold to be less strong than his son and not having any transformation.
I decided to twist that a little to make the "frost demons" my own (yes, Cold gave birth to his sons), but keeping all that according to what we see in the manga.

Sagir2(Shit can't spell his name for crap lol)

Yeah, that's actually not very nice. And you may have guessed that I don't wear the "2" on purpose.
If you can't write, copy-paste. That's what I do, TheGmGoken. It shows a minimum of civility.

As you said he could have done a better job in setting up the universes.

Of course. given more time to think before, given years of DBM publishing online, given 700 pages of experiments, I can say that if I did DBM now from the beginning, it would be very different.
When we began, more than half of the universes were written in stone. Even the next ones had to be decided very quickly. Notice how some universes are all in the first part of the round 1 and some others only the the second part ? I tried to give me more time to decide.
There are many things I regret and many things I wanted to change right after publication (comments can help that) or even months after.

It's sure easier to look back at some work and say "I'd done better".

Why is it just Vegeta and GOku who are the strong Saiyans?

Cool, new original characters of saiyans ! That would have given me true support, and differentiating me from the common fanboy, lol

Wait...why the hell is Videl so strong? It's fucking Videl!? Even if she HAD met the Z fighters I'm sure she would't become all of that. She would be more like Chi Chi( without being the bitch part IMO. How the hell can she manage the Kaioken.

That's not very nice for the only young character in the whole Buu Saga who actually gives a shit on getting stronger.
it's obvious to me that if Videl had the same life story as Krillin, she would be as strong as him. Why not?
Or maybe it's just plain misogyny as well, just like for SSJ Pan.

Yajirobe has enormous potential; he did basically nothing but sit around and eat and yet he still had a power level in the hundreds,(...)Yet he still gets a power level of around 1,000 by doing nothing. What could he have done had he ACTUALLY trained...?

Sadly all the power level you cite come from, I guess, other courses, the same other sources that put Popo at ~1000.
It's quite clear Yajirobe never went far. He could be Roshi's level for all I know. His only fights were against Goku being nice to him and the dragon Piccolo made, who was quite weak. Yajirobe clearly doesn't want to fight or to learn to fight. Making him strong would be off-character.
For the same reason Gohan didn't participate to DBM 's tournament.
And for the same reason I didn't do a universe with "good freeza" (actual suggestion by mail).

[DNA]

Oh yes, it was fun! Especially DNA saying I'm a fucker.
I hope you're not the same DNA who make Portuguese translation, that would be... awkward.

I don't remember calling you directly a fucker, maybe indirectly whilst referring to you, which is a bit different, but take it as you'd like. I have called you arrogant many times though.
I am indeed the same who used to be a part of the Portuguese translation team. I gave up for many reasons, internal quarrels with the team members being one, but the main reasons for me to give up on it were the unbearable pacing and plot, coupled with your arrogant attitude.
I am pretty sure I contacted you about the quarrels but you completely ignored the emails. Also, adding new team members without consulting the previous ones is a dick move.
I am at peace knowing that at least one team member is doing a great job, so I left it in capable hands.

[TonyTheTiger]

But everything can be bent a little (by me) and change that. I changed that because I had my own view on the "frost demons".

The thing with taking these liberties is that it conflicts with the premise of your own story. From your own page you present DBM as a sequel to the manga. "As I often try to do fanfictions that are compatible with the original work." DBM is about the butterfly effect. The idea that simple changes in the story we know can spin off into wildly different realities. And that's awesome. So when you start modifying and retconing details that don't spin off and instead are just things we need to assume were always the case even in U18, it's no longer "Our DB/DBZ we know, 10 years later." Instead it's Salagir's randomly altered version of DBZ, 10 years later. Which is kind of silly if we're talking about a butterfly effect story.

Just take the Bardock special. You randomly (and needlessly) changed the story so now in U18, which is meant to be the DBZ we know, he never got his psychic power. So instead of U3 being an alternate course of events from the Bardock story we know, it's now an alternate course of events from a random Salagir version. What's interesting is taking stuff that we know and presenting an alternate course of events. What's silly is making up a random new version of stuff we know and presenting an alternate course of events from that random new version. Nobody wants to see "Salagir-verse and all the alternate versions of it." They want to see "DBZ-verse and all the alternate versions of it."

If you have to fiddle with the movies slightly to resolve some of the more blatant conflicts with the manga, fine. But to randomly change things that don't need to be changed (Cold's max power, Bardock's history, etc.) you render the point of DBM moot. If you're going to do a butterfly effect story you should only be changing one variable per universe, the one that skews the story off into an alternate timeline. If you change more than that it just doesn't work.

And if you are going to change something, make sure there's a reason for it. What purpose did changing the Bardock story serve? What narrative benefit came from it? You could have told the same story had you followed the TV special's order of events and changed just one thing to skew off into U3. It was change for the sake of change. It's the same thing that's wrong with Cold's max power. For the record, I like the idea (and it's certainly plausible) that Cold was in a suppressed form in the manga. What isn't plausible is that his max power is comparable to Android 16.

U18 shouldn't need further elaboration. Like science experiments, alternate universe stories need a control group if they're going to make sense and be interesting.

[Draken]

* Transforming takes time. Cold saw that Trunks doesn't lose time. If Cold transforms, he'll be cut in two. That's why he tried to trick him instead of fighting on the spot. When the trick didn't work, Cold didn't have time to transform.

Uh, Trunks told Cold to go at him with his full power. Trunks was giving Cold time ._.

[TheMightyOzaru]

^This. Trunks would have let him transform. The Daizenshuu also flat out state Freeza is stronger than his father.

[DNA]

^This. Trunks would have let him transform. The Daizenshuu also flat out state Freeza is stronger than his father.

Heck, even Cold flat out states that, as it has been pointed out on this discussion.

[Salagir2]

You look pissed, DNA. I'll try to answer.

I don't remember calling you directly a fucker

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 80#p671573
BTW, as you can write better material than me, why don't you do it? I do am open to suggestion you know. I refuse a lot, that's true, but it's worth the shot.
The earthling universe most of you seem to hate IS a suggestion after all

I am pretty sure I contacted you about the quarrels but you completely ignored the emails. Also, adding new team members without consulting the previous ones is a dick move.

Well, I'm not going to search my mails but this happens actually a lot. Lot's of versions had their problems and people hope I'll be the judge and police about it. It's very hard for me to do, because I can't read the language in question and don't know who's right when they say the other ruin his translations. The only way to solve it is by discussion between the parties and I usually try to make them talk more and be nice with everyone. That's all I can do.
Some times, I had to ignore the requests because of the so many others things to handle. If I did, I'm sorry. But I do answer 95% of my mails.
I usually also never add people in a translation team without talking to the others first, usually asking the opinion of the "chief" of the version. Maybe I fucked this time, I don't know. But the chances are low.
Handling a team of 80 translators isn't actually... easy.

at least one team member is doing a great job, so I left it in capable hands.

That is great , thank you.

The thing with taking these liberties is that it conflicts with the premise of your own story .... Instead it's Salagir's randomly altered version of DBZ

I see. And you're right.
Although even with this in mind I don't think I'm capable of taking such a huge universe, and produce a thousand pages on it, without changing it a little.
Even Toriyama and especially the Toei changed the past for his own needs. On very little details.

Most of my changes are due to my own vision of consistency and credibility. And that's my weak point. I think many things in fillers don't have any credibility, and I want to change them. You can critic my own credibility, this is not the point here.
The point is I just couldn't stand imagining that a random Kanassian can, in one shot, give the power of sight AND put to sleep for a few days, an enemy that was killing his people by packs.
I can't stand that the whole point of the special is to give visions to Baddack, and said visions don't have any impact ANYWHERE in the story, as all he does, he does it based on events.
Looking back at this, sometimes I regret it : why pissing off so many readers just because I didn't like Toei's choice ? It wasn't an actual inconsistency. I know. But I know that if I didn't change it, I would also wake up in the middle of the night thinking I should have changed it ;p
For the same reasons, I needed to change the end of Broly's first film (one of the first specials we've done, I couldn't make it as long as I wanted. Still a big frustration), I needed to rewrite Broly's second film. I need it, as a scenarist. You can disagree, but I prefer this version, because it's more credible, for me. I guess I don't respect the original work enough. That is certainly the case. I even critic Toriyama's choices sometimes. (Yeah DNA, that's high-level arrogance!)

For Cold, it's interesting that you can't bear him being about #16 level. Some of my team was seeing him at SSJ Full Power easily !
The distance between freeza and #16 is quite small I think, in the grand scheme of power levels of all DBZ ^^
Remember this comic where another of Freeza's family arrive, after 50 years in ice, and because of that, wipes the floor with SSJ3 saiyans ? Any comment ?

Note that I didn't make so many changes. Most of the time, it's actually only working on the butterfly effect.

Trunks was giving Cold time

I just re-read the scene in manga. Nope, he doesn't.

When trunks tells them go full power, he is actually telling both of them he'll go at full power directly, that he isn't as nice as goku. At the moment they don't take him seriously.
Then he turns SSJ, kills freeza, and faces Cold. A Cold that just saw Trunks killing freeza without letting him any chance, a Trunks who said he wasn't nice. Cold knows he is in a bad situation. They talk. If Cold stopped talking to transform, what's to say Trunks would wait ? He wouldn't. At the precise moment Cold attacks with the sword, Cold dies in the next 2 seconds.
I really don't see how Cold could ever transform in this whole scene.

[TonyTheTiger]

For Cold, it's interesting that you can't bear him being about #16 level. Some of my team was seeing him at SSJ Full Power easily !
The distance between freeza and #16 is quite small I think, in the grand scheme of power levels of all DBZ ^^

Really? Because the guy who instantly annihilated Freeza turned out to be completely petrified of 17 and 18, who utterly humiliated the entire gang without even trying. And 16 is supposed to be even stronger than that. Seems like the distance is pretty big given how easily the androids won.

I'll be the first to admit that some of the things Toriyama and Toei have done rub me the wrong way. But this is the story we're stuck with. Personally, and I think you've touched on this in DBM, I'd prefer Freeza and company to be a credible threat through scheming rather than just get random power boosts. I think Cold could have beaten Videl and put up a decent fight against Bardock (and possibly win) even without being as strong as 16. So the extra power seems arbitrary to me.