Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ok, I pulled a Goku, I'm not done with power levels:

Great Saiyaman Arc

7 Years Later
Gohan: 55,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 1,375,000,000
Goten: 26,000,000
SSJ Goten: 1,300,000,000
Trunks: 27,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,350,000,000
Videl: 9

25th Tenkaichi Budokai
Goten: 27,000,000
SSJ Goten: 1,350,000,000
Trunks: 28,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,400,00,000
Mr Satan: 11
Gohan: 56,000,000
Piccolo: 1,200,000,0000
Goku: 80,000,000
Vegeta: 64,000,000
Krillin: 196,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Yamcha: 75,000
Kaioshin: 2,100,000,000
Kibito: 56,000,000
Spopobitchi: 50
Yamu: 45
Videl: 32
FPSSJ Gohan(Angry): 3,080,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,600,000,000

Majin Buu Arc

The Wizard Babidi
Pui Pui: 400,000
Yakon: ?
SSJ Goku: ?
Dabura: 2,800,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 2,800,000,000
Majin FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,000,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,000,000,000
Majin SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 8,000,000,000

Majin Buu Awakens
Majin Buu: 25,000,000,000
-Final Explosion: 24,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
Gotenks: 540,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 27,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Angry to the Point of Splitting): 52,000,000,000
Pure Evil Buu: 29,000,000,000
Good Buu: 23,000,000,000
Evil Buu: 260,000,000,000

Fusion Arc

Fu-Sion-Ha!
Gohan(Post Z-Sword Training): 80,000,000
Goten: 35,000,000
Trunks: 36,000,000
Gotenks: 700,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 35,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gotenks: 70,000,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 280,000,000,000
Gohan: 400,000,000,000
Buutenks: 541,200,000,000
Kibitoshin: 5,750,000,000
Buuhan: 661,271,000,000
Tenshinhan: 180,000
Vegetto: 640,000,000,000
FPSSJ Vegetto: 32,000,000,000,000

Kid Buu Returns!?
Kid Buu: 30,000,000,000
Western Kaioshin: 7,000,000,000
Northern Kaioshin: 4,000,000,000
Southern Kaioshin: 25,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Southern Kaioshin Absorbed): 275,000,000,000
Eastern Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000
Daikaioshin: 15,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
-True Kamehameha: 40,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Good Buu: 23,000,000,000
-Super Genki Dama: 36,000,000,000

Heya!! Son Goku and his Friends Return
Goku: 88,000,000
Vegeta: 88,000,000
Gohan: 400,000,000,000
Piccolo: 1,440,000,000
Videl: 30
Goten: 37,000,000
Trunks: 38,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 216,000
Yamcha: 72,000
Mr Buu: 23,000,000,000
Mr Satan: 11
Kibitoshin: 5,750,000,000
Tarble: 180
Ava: 800,000
Kado: 800,000
Avakado: 64,000,000
Gotenks: 740,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 37,000,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,400,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,400,000,000

The End

Battle of Gods
Goku: 96,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,800,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 9,600,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 38,400,000,000
SSJ God Goku(80%): 3,840,000,000,000,000
SSJ God Goku: 4,800,000,000,000,000
Goku(After Absorbing SSJ God's Powers): 4,720,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 96,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,800,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta(Enraged): ?
Gohan: 400,000,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: ?
Goten: 40,000,000
SSJ Goten: 2,000,000,000
Trunks: 42,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 2,100,000,000
Gotenks: 800,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 40,000,000,000
Piccolo: 1,800,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 280,000
Tenshinhan: 230,000
Yamcha: 64,000
Videl: 25
Mr Satan: 10
Mr Buu: 23,000,000,000
Kibitoshin: 5,750,000,000
Birusu(70%): 4,900,000,000,000,000
Birusu: 7,000,000,000,000,000
Uisu: 12,000,000,000,000,000

10 Years Later
Goku: ?
Vegeta: ?
Mr Buu: 23,000,000,000
Goten: 43,000,000
Trunks: 48,000,000
Gohan: 400,000,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 250,000
Piccolo: 2,400,000,000
Videl: 18
Mr Satan: 8
Pan: 38,000,000
Uub: 30,000,000,000

Oozaru: 10x base
Kaioken: This technique increases the users power level based on the number of times it is stacked. Standard Kaioken will raise the users power level by 1.5x.
SSJ: 50x base. This form's multiplier becomes very flexible after mastering SSJ.
SSJG2: 1.5x SSJ
SSJG3: 2x SSJ, this form is incredibly slow so it is impractical in battle.
RESSJ: 10x base, this form is achieved after training yourself to maintain the SSJ form as if it were your base form.
FPSSJ: 5x RESSJ
SSJ2: 2x SSJ or FPSSJ/100x base
SSJ3: 4x SSJ2/400x base
SSJ God: 50,000,000x base
Fusion Dance: Both Power Levels must be equal. A + B x 10.
Potara Earring fusion: A + B x 100. Divide the result by the difference between the original power levels. If the fusees are rivals, the result is like multiplication.
Zenkai: Zenkai's are special power ups Saiyan's receive after healing from near death injuries. In the Early parts of the series, Zenkai's shot up a persons power by a random number however later on in the series these increases were less noticeable. This probably happened because of the SSJ transformation.

[RandomGuy96]

Well, at least you finally gave Good Buu some credit. I still think him, Pure Evil Buu, and Kid Buu are too low though. And Videl is still insanely, ridiculously high for someone that can't survive bullets.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well, at least you finally gave Good Buu some credit. I still think him, Pure Evil Buu, and Kid Buu are too low though. And Videl is still insanely, ridiculously high for someone that can't survive bullets.

Goku can survive bullets because his physical body is strong, his BP has nothing to do with it. I don't think Pure Buu is stronger than Goku, I think he's slightly weaker, but hey, to each their own .

[RandomGuy96]

A power level of 32 is still ridiculously high. When has she ever shown feats anywhere near that level? You're assuming that she's almost a fourth as powerful as the guy who blew up the moon, and stronger than Yamcha in his first appearance. I'm sorry but at that level bullets should not effect her.

[TheMightyOzaru]

She's still rusty with her Ki. She can't control it to the point of blocking bullets. Actually Videl is more like a 6th of Roshi since he blew up the Moon at full power. Honestly though, I just put a number without thinking about it too hard .

[RandomGuy96]

Ava: 600,000
Kado: 600,000
Avakado: 1,200,000,000

I think you made a mistake here. You have Ava and Kado being able to fight on par with guys in the tens of millions, and then have Avakado way stronger than base Gotenks, who whooped his ass. They should both be a little over 30,000,000, with Avakado just being their power levels added.

I think both Mr.Satan and Videl have power levels of 5. After the training, Videl's rises to 7.

[Kamiccolo9]

Ava: 600,000
Kado: 600,000
Avakado: 1,200,000,000

I think you made a mistake here. You have Ava and Kado being able to fight on par with guys in the tens of millions, and then have Avakado way stronger than base Gotenks, who whooped his ass. They should both be a little over 30,000,000, with Avakado just being their power levels added.

I think both Mr.Satan and Videl have power levels of 5. After the training, Videl's rises to 7.

Personally, I'd bump Mr. Satan up to 7, and Videl to 8. Seeing as an overweight, out of shape farmer was 5, Mr. Satan should be higher than that, and Videl should be a bit stronger than him.

[TheMightyOzaru]

No, it's no mistake. In the manga, base Goten and Trunks slaughter them, Ava and Kado couldn't even touch them. Base Gotenks also didn't really do anything. He went SSJ pretty quickly.

[RandomGuy96]

Personally, I'd bump Mr. Satan up to 7, and Videl to 8. Seeing as an overweight, out of shape farmer was 5, Mr. Satan should be higher than that, and Videl should be a bit stronger than him.

I don't think that's due to ki. Mr.Satan and Videl have the same ki as the average human because we never receieve knowledge they use ki to enhance their bodies- in fact, the opposite was stated. It's just physical strength. A bear and a human would both have a life energy of 5, but obviously one is stronger than the other for non-ki related reasons...

No, it's no mistake. In the manga, base Goten and Trunks slaughter them, Ava and Kado couldn't even touch them. Base Gotenks also didn't really do anything. He went SSJ pretty quickly.

Never read the manga version, but Avakado being around Semi-Perfect Cell is still ridiculous. That would mean that fusion somehow had a x1000 multiplier. Avakado would've been able to defeat 100% Freeza even when Avo and Kado were both still Ginyu level, to say nothing of what they would do to the first form they actually thought of as Freeza....

[TheMightyOzaru]

I guess I'll lower Avakado.

[Kamiccolo9]

Personally, I'd bump Mr. Satan up to 7, and Videl to 8. Seeing as an overweight, out of shape farmer was 5, Mr. Satan should be higher than that, and Videl should be a bit stronger than him.

I don't think that's due to ki. Mr.Satan and Videl have the same ki as the average human because we never receieve knowledge they use ki to enhance their bodies- in fact, the opposite was stated. It's just physical strength. A bear and a human would both have a life energy of 5, but obviously one is stronger than the other for non-ki related reasons...

But as we see from Goku being at 10, physical attributes do add to battle power, just at a vastly slower rate than ki.
Mr. Satan is really strong for a human, and Videl has very limited control over ki. Mr. Satan could stay at 6 or 7 for the rest of his life and never go any higher, but I still think he should be a point or two above the farmer, with Videl being a point above him.

Although, if you think that physical strength contributes hardly anything to battle power, then you should lower Chappa a lot on your list. And, out of curiosity, where do you have Nam? I didn't see him on your list.

[TheMightyOzaru]

There's no way in Hell Mr Satan is equal to the farmer with a shotgun .

[RandomGuy96]

But as we see from Goku being at 10, physical attributes do add to battle power, just at a vastly slower rate than ki.
Mr. Satan is really strong for a human, and Videl has very limited control over ki. Mr. Satan could stay at 6 or 7 for the rest of his life and never go any higher, but I still think he should be a point or two above the farmer, with Videl being a point above him.

Although, if you think that physical strength contributes hardly anything to battle power, then you should lower Chappa a lot on your list. And, out of curiosity, where do you have Nam? I didn't see him on your list.

Like I said, that's not ki dependent. He's just a normal human who works out a lot- I can't imagine he's raising his battle power. Goku being at 10 was actually my point; his ki level is pitifully low for someone who can tank bullets, but his physical attributes of being a saiyan just give him a naturally tough body. I wouldn't expect a bear to have a larger ki than a human for no reason, but that doesn't mean the bear isn't way stronger.

I didn't list Nam because I didn't think he was that important. But the difference between these guys and Mr.Satan is that they're clearly superhuman.

EDIT: Another thing. It seems you've abandoned your first two digits logic on the Buus?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah. I just went with Kaioshin energy greatly increases or decreases Buu's power.

[Kamiccolo9]

So, I'm considering making Base Gotenks a bit stronger than SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta. Ignoring the Daizenshuu quote, since it contradicts the manga, this is the level that seems to be implied. This would require bumping up Super Buu and Gohan, but I don't think it'd have any real effect on anyone else. Maybe South Kaioshin, but I could go with him multiplying Buu's power by some arbitrary number. Am I missing anything that would change the strength of Goku or any of the other Buu's?

[RandomGuy96]

On that same note, I'm thinking of nerfing Gotenks by making SS3 multiplier x4 off his SS instead of x8 like Goku's. This is because of my theory that SS3 just multiplies the previous form by 4 instead of always being eight times stronger than SS; I don't Gotenks ever obtained SS2 (as evidenced by the boys quotes and surprise at finding a level beyond Super Saiyan) . Mostly I want to integrate my theory about Evil Buu and Kid Buu (see the "What makes a Buu?" thread), and stop trying to come up with a formula for the South Kaioshin absorption, since I think we were just meant to see it as a simple "Buu absorbed a strong guy and became strong" statement rather than a "he absorbed a different kind of being so he randomly got ten times stronger". This way Gotenks would only end up being a little over twice as strong as Goku. Of course I'd have to nerf Dai Kaioshin-Buu a bit, but that's it; in reality he only NEEDS to be x1.5 stronger than Vegeta.

I don't think base Gotenks needs to be that strong though- like I said, all he has are gag-related non feats, and SS Gotenks (pre) being many times stronger than SS3 Goku, making him look like a complete bum, doesn't seem to be implied. If anything it's implied he's weaker. Unless you mean base Gotenks (post), but that would mean he got many times stronger in the ROSAT, which just seems silly.

[Kamiccolo9]

On that same note, I'm thinking of nerfing Gotenks by making SS3 multiplier x4 off his SS instead of x8 like Goku's. This is because of my theory that SS3 just multiplies the previous form by 4 instead of always being eight times stronger than SS; I don't Gotenks ever obtained SS2 (as evidenced by the boys quotes and surprise at finding a level beyond Super Saiyan) . Mostly I want to integrate my theory about Evil Buu and Kid Buu (see the "What makes a Buu?" thread), and stop trying to come up with a formula for the South Kaioshin absorption. This way Gotenks would only end up being a little over twice as strong as Goku.

I don't think base Gotenks needs to be that strong though- like I said, all he has are gag-related non feats, and SS Gotenks (pre) being many times stronger than SS3 Goku, making him look like a complete bum, doesn't seem to be implied. If anything it's implied he's weaker. Unless you mean base Gotenks (post), but that would mean he got many times stronger in the ROSAT, which just seems silly.

I'd say it's implied that he's stronger. Goku says he would be, after all, and we never see SSJ Gotenks fight Fat Buu.
Seeing as Base Gotenks being really weak makes Piccolo look like an idiot (not a big fan of that ), especially when this arc specifically praises him for his intelligence. At the very least, I think Base Gotenks has to be stronger than Piccolo. I don't mind Goku being hugely weak compared to the later Buu Arc characters; it's implied that he's trash anyway.

[RandomGuy96]

On that same note, I'm thinking of nerfing Gotenks by making SS3 multiplier x4 off his SS instead of x8 like Goku's. This is because of my theory that SS3 just multiplies the previous form by 4 instead of always being eight times stronger than SS; I don't Gotenks ever obtained SS2 (as evidenced by the boys quotes and surprise at finding a level beyond Super Saiyan) . Mostly I want to integrate my theory about Evil Buu and Kid Buu (see the "What makes a Buu?" thread), and stop trying to come up with a formula for the South Kaioshin absorption. This way Gotenks would only end up being a little over twice as strong as Goku.

I don't think base Gotenks needs to be that strong though- like I said, all he has are gag-related non feats, and SS Gotenks (pre) being many times stronger than SS3 Goku, making him look like a complete bum, doesn't seem to be implied. If anything it's implied he's weaker. Unless you mean base Gotenks (post), but that would mean he got many times stronger in the ROSAT, which just seems silly.

I'd say it's implied that he's stronger. Goku says he would be, after all, and we never see SSJ Gotenks fight Fat Buu.
Seeing as Base Gotenks being really weak makes Piccolo look like an idiot (not a big fan of that ), especially when this arc specifically praises him for his intelligence. At the very least, I think Base Gotenks has to be stronger than Piccolo. I don't mind Goku being hugely weak compared to the later Buu Arc characters; it's implied that he's trash anyway.

Stronger or no, do you honestly think it was implied that was MANY TIMES stronger than Goku? Piccolo seems more impressed by SS3 Goku than SS Gotenks (pre). Or are you saying he got many times stronger in the ROSAT? If that were the case then Goten SS > Goku SS now. And they were in there for one week. We have to draw the line somewhere for common sense.

You can just give base Gotenks a tiny multiplier, or accept that Toriyama turned the green machine into comic relief in this arc by setting him up to facepalm when base Gotenks couldn't budge Buu. I mean the alternative is base Gotenks (post) > SS Gotenks (pre)

[Kamiccolo9]

On that same note, I'm thinking of nerfing Gotenks by making SS3 multiplier x4 off his SS instead of x8 like Goku's. This is because of my theory that SS3 just multiplies the previous form by 4 instead of always being eight times stronger than SS; I don't Gotenks ever obtained SS2 (as evidenced by the boys quotes and surprise at finding a level beyond Super Saiyan) . Mostly I want to integrate my theory about Evil Buu and Kid Buu (see the "What makes a Buu?" thread), and stop trying to come up with a formula for the South Kaioshin absorption. This way Gotenks would only end up being a little over twice as strong as Goku.

I don't think base Gotenks needs to be that strong though- like I said, all he has are gag-related non feats, and SS Gotenks (pre) being many times stronger than SS3 Goku, making him look like a complete bum, doesn't seem to be implied. If anything it's implied he's weaker. Unless you mean base Gotenks (post), but that would mean he got many times stronger in the ROSAT, which just seems silly.

I'd say it's implied that he's stronger. Goku says he would be, after all, and we never see SSJ Gotenks fight Fat Buu.
Seeing as Base Gotenks being really weak makes Piccolo look like an idiot (not a big fan of that ), especially when this arc specifically praises him for his intelligence. At the very least, I think Base Gotenks has to be stronger than Piccolo. I don't mind Goku being hugely weak compared to the later Buu Arc characters; it's implied that he's trash anyway.

Stronger or no, do you honestly think it was implied that was MANY TIMES stronger than Goku? Piccolo seems more impressed by SS3 Goku than SS Gotenks (pre). Or are you saying he got many times stronger in the ROSAT? If that were the case then Goten SS > Goku SS now. And they were in there for one week. We have to draw the line somewhere for common sense.

You can just give base Gotenks a tiny multiplier, or accept that Toriyama turned the green machine into comic relief in this arc by setting him up to facepalm when base Gotenks couldn't budge Buu. I mean the alternative is base Gotenks (post) > SS Gotenks (pre)

Maybe. I may go with your idea for skipping SSJ2, and changing the SSJ3 multiplier but I'm not sure yet. The 50x for SSJ doesn't really work with what's implied for Gotenks.

[RandomGuy96]

Maybe. I may go with your idea for skipping SSJ2, and changing the SSJ3 multiplier but I'm not sure yet. The 50x for SSJ doesn't really work with what's implied for Gotenks.

That's the thing though. I don't think there are any implications about base Gotenks other than that his base form if very, very weak, since it's the butt of jokes and overestimation by numerous characters. I don't think it was intended to be stronger than SS3 Goku, even though that's what gag logic seems to imply.

I'm modifying my list and changing Gotenks' SS3 multiplier to X4 due to skipping SS2. It's coming along nicely and everything fits together well- and I can integrate my theory.

A = A small chunk of Kaioshin ki

B = The rest

Evil Buu = Kid Buu + A (unusable)

Good Buu = B

Super Buu = Kid Buu + B + A (unusable)

Mr. Buu = B + A (usable)

Kid Buu = Evil Buu - A