Super Saiyan 4 Pants
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
I am fairly sure it's more involved than just doing the movements, like I don't think any person in Dragon Ball can perform the Kamehameha just by performing the movements. Pretty sure Goten/Trunks have shown the ability to do the movements without fusing, too.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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Blade
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
I'm tired of this now, these responses are getting more and more ridiculous.hleV wrote:Your perception of magic is very limited, it appears.
The technique itself could've been created with magic. So that it would exist. So that anybody could use it.
It amazes me how far some people will go to justify their misgivings over small details, which in the context of outlandish things within the show, really aren't so out of place.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
I'm the one who is amazed. Amazed at how far people will go to act as though two completely different things are perfectly similar, and doing everything they can to defend GT by trying to bring the original down to it's level.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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Blade
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
See, this is where the problem is - what you're talking about is only occurring in your head, perhaps due to your own personal feelings towards anything to do with Dragonball GT.Saiga wrote:and doing everything they can to defend GT by trying to bring the original down to it's level.
This is probably just another example of fervent, unshakable hatred for GT, that causes people to round on even the smallest of details just because it's part of GT - no matter how consistent or inconsistent it is in regard to the original.
And just in case I haven't made it clear enough already: I'm not defending or even giving any sort of personal opinion about GT and I never have been.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
See, now you're just doing the same thing you juuust accused me of. I apologize if you feel mis-accused, but I'm not just talking about you, but in general. My point about trying to make two dissimilar things sound alike IS directed at you (and DBZGTKOSDH), though, because that's exactly what you're doing.
And I don't think GT has inconsistencies because I hate it, I hate GT because it has inconsistencies.
And I don't think GT has inconsistencies because I hate it, I hate GT because it has inconsistencies.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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Blade
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
Well, the thing is - they're really not so incompatible within the context. I can't really see how you're struggling to get your head around it, other than that you've just kind of ring-fenced all of the stuff from the original work as 'safe' and you view concepts from GT, no matter how logically similar within the context, as being 'alien'.Saiga wrote: My point about trying to make two dissimilar things sound alike IS directed at you (and DBZGTKOSDH)
I know that you personally didn't say this, but I find it rather exasperating where you get people making lurid home-brew assumptions and explanations as to the mechanics of how the Fusion dance can generate clothing, whereas when it comes to the Super Saiyan 4 transformation, they brand the concept as being logically impossible and immediately throw it out with near-disgust. I know that the original work is sacra-saint to a lot of people on here, and that's totally fine - because this is a Dragonball Z fan forum, but sometimes it makes for some absolutely turgid reading when it comes to debates. Sometimes the logic employed in these threads is equally as crazy as the mechanics within Dragonball.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
No Blade, I'm amazed by how illogical your argument is. Seriously are you even listening to yourself right now 
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?Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Blade
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
Really? Seriously? Come on! Think about it!TheMightyOzaru wrote:No Blade, I'm amazed by how illogical your argument is. Seriously are you even listening to yourself right now
We're talking about crazy fictitious transformations and body-mergers that can instantaneously cause huge upheavals of physical appearance and generate entirely new outfits - but you're honestly not willing to entertain the idea that it's possible within the fictional world of Dragonball, despite the numerous lurid, real-world impossibilities and mechanics of the transformation, for Super Saiyan 4 to generate a pair of pants?
I'm sorry. I really am - but as far as logic goes we're not even going deep here in the slightest. Break through those walls in your head, you can do it!
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
But official information don't even hint that there is magic involved, so everything about magic is just fan-theories. I could come up with a magic theory for SS4 as well: In the ancient times, the Kami of Planet Saiya did a magic so that if a Saiyan was to transform into a Super Saiyan 4, he would get clothes back so that he won't be naked (Rou Kaioshin knew about SS4, so the Kami of Planet Saiya should know about it as well).hleV wrote:Your perception of magic is very limited, it appears.
The technique itself could've been created with magic. So that it would exist. So that anybody could use it.
There is the whole similar ki/age/race/body-type/height involved as well.Saiga wrote:I am fairly sure it's more involved than just doing the movements
I'm not defending GT, I'm just pointing out that it's not the first time we see clothes coming out of nowhere without making any sense.Saiga wrote:I'm the one who is amazed. Amazed at how far people will go to act as though two completely different things are perfectly similar, and doing everything they can to defend GT by trying to bring the original down to it's level.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
Some examples from Daizenshu 7 Special Attack Dictionary:
- Kaio-ken: ki manipulation
Materialization: sorcery
Transformation: ability
Fusion: special
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
So, transformation granting clothes based on the memory of the previous ones is nonsense, but a special technique granting clothes that belong to a race that Goten & Trunks have never seen isn't nonsense. OK.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
Yes, because transformations are related to physiology.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:transformation granting clothes based on the memory of the previous ones is nonsense
Correct. It's a special technique.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:a special technique granting clothes that belong to a race that Goten & Trunks have never seen isn't nonsense
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
Explain me how a special technique generating clothes that exist somewhere in the galaxy, but without the user having ever seen them.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
The same way Piccolo generates clothes, just that in this case the technique does it automatically. Or I don't understand the question.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
But Piccolo has to imagine the clothes first to generate them. Goten & Trunks have no idea what Metamoran clothes look like. Not to mention that Piccolo's technique is magic, while Fusion isn't.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
That's special for you.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
Being special doesn't mean it can give you mystical knowledge. It doesn't make any sense.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
It doesn't give mystical knowledge. It gives clothes. I honestly don't understand what your problem is with a special technique granting a default set of clothes.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Being special doesn't mean it can give you mystical knowledge. It doesn't make any sense.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
Not random clothes, clothes that are designed by a specific race in the galaxy, which Goten & Trunks have never seen or imagined.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan 4 Pants
When Metamorians created this special technique, they made it so it would give that specific set of clothes. It's that simple.