Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

Maybe. I may go with your idea for skipping SSJ2, and changing the SSJ3 multiplier but I'm not sure yet. The 50x for SSJ doesn't really work with what's implied for Gotenks.

That's the thing though. I don't think there are any implications about base Gotenks other than that his base form if very, very weak, since it's the butt of jokes and overestimation by numerous characters. I don't think it was intended to be stronger than SS3 Goku, even though that's what gag logic seems to imply.

I'm modifying my list and changing Gotenks' SS3 multiplier to X4 due to skipping SS2. It's coming along nicely and everything fits together well- and I can integrate my theory.

A = A small chunk of Kaioshin ki

B = The rest

Evil Buu = Kid Buu + A (unusable)

Good Buu = B

Super Buu = Kid Buu + B + A (unusable)

Mr. Buu = B + A (usable)

Kid Buu = Evil Buu - A

I'm thinking of just making Gray Buu=Pure Buu and having Mr. Buu and Good Buu be the same Dai + South Kaioshin, with Buu abilities.
Gray Buu did better against Mr. Buu than Pure Buu did, but that can be due to his no nonsense attitude, and Pure Buu being crazy and unfocused.

[RandomGuy96]

It could be, as I proposed, that Gray and Kid fought different Buus. It would explain why Super Buu reverted to Kid Buu, not Evil Buu. Evil Buu cannot purely be Kid Buu; for one, he isn't Kid Buu. Two and more importantly, he still has the Kaioshin gloves, vest, and cape, so there's some influence somewhere in him.

[Kamiccolo9]

It could be, as I proposed, that Gray and Kid fought different Buus. It would explain why Super Buu reverted to Kid Buu, not Evil Buu.

I don't like that. I don't see why Mr. Buu and Good Buu should be any different.

[RandomGuy96]

Because Evil Buu and Kid Buu are different? I figure that Super Buu's body automatically purified Kid Buu and filter all of Evil Buu's impurities to Mr.Buu.

[Kamiccolo9]

Because Evil Buu and Kid Buu are different?

They look different, act different, have different strength, and are treated as different beings-"I won't be me anymore!"
Mr. Buu and Good Buu are identical, same personality, and are treated as the same being-"The first one of all."
I see Gray Buu as a manifestation of Buu's evil-not a true Buu, as he lacks some of the characteristics the other Buu's demonstrate, but more a metaphysical entity. He was created through "unnatural" means. While Pure Buu is just Super Buu after taking out all the good stuff. For the former, he was expelled from of Buu's body;for the latter, he regressed to that stage.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I see Gray Buu as a manifestation of Buu's evil-not a true Buu, as he lacks some of the characteristics the other Buu's demonstrate

What characteristics?

[Kamiccolo9]

I see Gray Buu as a manifestation of Buu's evil-not a true Buu, as he lacks some of the characteristics the other Buu's demonstrate

What characteristics?

Pink skin (although this is anime only), being emaciated, and we never see any kind of regeneration from him.

[RandomGuy96]

I suppose that makes some sense if you believe Evil = Kid. He was formed in an unnatural way and wasn't a true Buu- I just prefer the other explanation better. Speaking of which, I modified my power levels on page 138 accordingly. How do they look?

Gotenks (pre-ROSAT)-
--Super Saiyan- 18,000,000,000

Fat Buu- 16,000,000,000
--Angered To The Point Of Splitting- 72,000,000,000
Good Buu- 27,000,000,00
Evil Buu- 45,000,000,000

Gotenks (post-ROSAT)-
--Super Saiyan- 22,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 88,000,000,000

Super Buu- 72,000,000,000
--Piccolo absorbed- 74,000,000,000
--Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed- 78,000,000,000
--Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed- 162,000,000,000
--Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed- 200,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan- 122,000,000,000

Goku- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 5,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 40,000,000,000
---Suppressed (vs Fat Buu)- 16,000,000,000
Mr.Buu- 37,000,000,000
Vegeta- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000

Kid Buu- 45,000,000,000
--South Kaioshin absorbed- 79,000,000,000

South Kaioshin- 34,000,000,000
Grand Kaioshin- 3,000,000,000

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Pink skin (although this is anime only)

I think you want to say gray skin, since that's the one that is anime only?

being emaciated

And fat Boo is the only fat one.

we never see any kind of regeneration from him.

He didn't get the chance to show it.

[Kamiccolo9]

I suppose that makes some sense if you believe Evil = Kid. He was formed in an unnatural way and wasn't a true Buu- I just prefer the other explanation better. Speaking of which, I modified my power levels on page 138 accordingly. How do they look?

Gotenks (pre-ROSAT)-
--Super Saiyan- 18,000,000,000

Fat Buu- 16,000,000,000
--Angered To The Point Of Splitting- 72,000,000,000
Good Buu- 27,000,000,00
Evil Buu- 45,000,000,000

Gotenks (post-ROSAT)-
--Super Saiyan- 22,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 88,000,000,000

Super Buu- 72,000,000,000
--Buuccolo/Super Duper Buu- 78,000,000,000
--Buushin/Mega Buu/Buff Buu- 79,000,000,000
--Buutenks/Ultra Buu- 162,000,000,000
--Buuhan/Ultimate Buu- 200,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan- 122,000,000,000

Goku- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 5,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 40,000,000,000
---Suppressed (vs Fat Buu)- 16,000,000,000
Mr.Buu- 37,000,000,000
Vegeta- 100,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 10,000,000,000

Kid Buu- 45,000,000,000

South Kaioshin- 34,000,000,000
Grand Kaioshin- 3,000,000,000

To each his own then
You left out the second Buuccolo, the one with just Piccolo and no Goten or Trunks.
Everything else looks pretty good. Aside from our views on Gotenks (still trying to work out what I'm gonna do here.)

[RandomGuy96]

Ah right- everyone always forgets about the REAL Buuccolo. Probably because he only existed for one panel. Fix'd.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'm still trying to work out a good way to get Good Buu to have SK's and DK's power while still maintaining Evil Buu at 260,000,000,000 . Anyone got any ideas? I could use some help.

[RandomGuy96]

I recently just threw the implications about Gotenks out the window by making his SS3 multiplier x200 instead of x400 because he skipped SS2, as seen on the above list. That way I can integrate my theory about Evil Buu and have everything be purely addition. It fits quite nicely. Though I imagine that's not what you want to do.

I think the best thing to do is give SK and DK different multipliers/dividers and accept that maybe Super Buu is just a little bit lower than 260,000,000,000 (he seemed like he was at a pretty big disadvantage against Gotenks). Maybe nerf your East Kaioshin to 1,600,000,000 so Dai Kaioshin can be 2,000,000,000; that way Mr.Buu is barley any stronger than South Kaioshin. Every little bit helps when keeping a decent gap between Mr.Buu and Kid Buu. For example:

Buff Buu = (22.4 + 30) x 5 = 262

Fat Buu = (262 - 2) / 10 = 26

Evil Buu = 30 - 2 = 28 (+2.4 SK ki, unusable but not detrimental)

Good Buu = 20 (rest of the South Kaioshin ki)

Super Buu = (28 + 20) x 5 = 240

Mr.Buu = 22.4 + 2 = 24.4

Just a suggestion. But I like my above theory better, at least at the moment...

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gotenks goes Ssj2. It's even a listed transformation in the Daizenshuu.

[RandomGuy96]

That's just a panel in the middle of his transformation to SS3. The boys say that SS3 is the form beyond Super Saiyan and are surprised, suggesting that they hadn't already ascended beyond it- them getting SS2 isn't even mentioned, even though that'd be a huge deal. I don't really care what the Daizenshuu has to say about Gotenks. If its info about Gotenks was the least bit reliable (i.e. if SS2 Vegeta > SS Gotenks were true) we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ok, lets assume for 1 second he didn't go SSJ2, why would he be at a 2x multiplier? That makes no sense.

[RandomGuy96]

It multiplies his previous form by 4. In Goku's case, he had Super Saiyan 2, so the multiplier was x8 his normal Super Saiyan. In Gotenks' case, he didn't, so it was x4 his normal Super Saiyan.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It multiplies his previous form by 4. In Goku's case, he had Super Saiyan 2, so the multiplier was x8 his normal Super Saiyan. In Gotenks' case, he didn't, so it was x4 his normal Super Saiyan.

No it doesn't, the SEG clearly says 4x SSJ2.

[RandomGuy96]

That's my theory, not fact. Don't really care what the guide said; if I took all guides as gospel I wouldn't even need to think about Gotenks since he wouldn't even be twice as strong as Goku. And it shows Goku there, so I'm not sure if the same applies to Gotenks; gag implications at least imply he has different multipliers.

[TheMightyOzaru]

dude, these are where the official multipliers come from. You might as well ignore the SEG altogether if you're gonna ignore what is stated. SSJ3 IS 4x SSJ2, not 4x SSJ. Honestly Gotenks, if anything, would have a greater multiplier since SSJ3 drags the hidden potential of the Saiyan out to it's limits.