Goku, the true LSSJ or a baby that drives LSSjs crazy?

[rereboy]

I've always read many fans arguing that they didn't understand why Broly turned out crazy because of Goku's cries as a baby on movie 8. I've always found that interpretation rather interesting since that wasn't what I interpreted. So, I thought about opening a discussion. Here's my take on the subject:

Goku is capable of disturbing Broly, not only as a baby but also as a adult. Somehow, Broly instinctively doesn't like him. But why? This is when many fans argue that it seems that Goku drove him mad with his crying as a child and that's why he is fixating on him. But is that really so? Is that the more adequate interpretation considering what the movie chooses to show us? According to the movie, the legend says that the LSSJ appears once every 1000 years, but the movie goes out of its way to tells us that Goku and Broly are born on the exact same day. Is this somehow a coincidence? If it has no relevance, why would the movie point it out?

Let's assume that the movie is actually trying to tell us something with this. If they are born in the same day and the legend states that a LSSJ is born every 1000 years, could it be that the movie is trying to tell us that Goku is a fated rival to Broly? Perhaps a rival for the title of LSSJ? Its a possible conclusion. Is it the most adequate? Well, personally, I think that it explains quite nicely why Broly doesn't like him and is disturbed by him. He somehow feels instinctively the danger that Goku poses to him, as his fated rival. That's why his very sight can make him go into a frenzy and why, even as a child, he could disturb him just by crying. That way, the scene of Goku disturbing Broly as a baby becomes nothing more than a well made metaphor for their rivalry, and not the cause of Broly's mental state, which is more likely caused by his overwhelming power and years of forced mental control.

But we may ask ourselves, how could Goku be his rival, if Broly was more powerful and even had a distinct power to him (green Ki, white eyes, etc)? In this I think lies the great "lesson" that the movie tries to transmit the viewer. Yes, Goku was weaker, outmatched, inferior. And yet, through his determination and with the help of his allies, which he had gained throughout the years by just being who he is, he still beat Broly, he still defeated him. Just like when they were babies, even though Broly had a power level of 10.000 and Goku under 5, Goku still had the ability to hurt him. Hence why he is a fated rival to Broly. In fact, we might even go further and say that even though Broly was the one with the LSSJ-like power, Goku was the one true LSSJ, born on day of the LSSJ, and the one who managed to defeat Broly and all the other enemies that he had ever faced.

Therefore, I think movie 8 is actually the most clever of Dragon Ball movies and I don't really agree that Broly's backstory or the story of movie 8 wasn't good. What do you guys think?

[Cursed Lemon]

That's an amusing interpretation, to be sure!

But if you're actually, honestly advocating for it, then it kind of falls on its face in a couple of ways:

1. The movie clearly places emphasis on the fact that Goku's wailing traumatized Broly, regardless of how strange that concept is - it's stated as much in the dialogue itself. It could also be spun that Broly aligns Goku's crying along with the attempted murder and destruction of planet Vegeta, making Goku the object of his ire for the massacring of his entire people. But any way you slice it, Broly is far more demented than any normal saiyan, and we're not given a reason to believe that simply being an extraordinarily powerful specimen or the beholder of a unique transformation is responsible for that. He is also shown to be a crazed brute away from Goku as well - see Paragus' eye.

2. If Goku were the LSSJ in the kind of ironic twist that you're proposing, what does that make Broly? He is an incredibly unique saiyan and his freakish powers would have to be explained away in another, unrelated plot point. Furthermore, how do you quantify the LSSJ if Broly's characteristics do not match? Sure, it'd be a very interesting story twist to say that every millennium, a legendary super saiyan is born, and fate decides whether it is the weaker, pure-hearted saiyan or the green-tinted Incredible Hulk-jin...but there's nothing to suggest that this kind of machina is at work here. Goku is just a normal saiyan by every observable metric, save for living long enough to actually become a pillar of strength. And let's not forget, had everyone pumped their power into Vegeta instead of Goku (which I think would've been VERY interesting indeed), Vegeta would've suckered Broly into the next dimension just as easily, and we'd be calling him the LSSJ Prince.

[tomac66]

I don't know which one was the story that they want to tell in this Movie but in the recent Episode of Bardock the LSSj is not a Saiyan, it's a legend of a Saiyan that becomes SSJ 1000 years ago (Bardock).

[rereboy]

..

Well, honestly I don't recall anything that was said that actually implied that Goku was the source of Broly's craziness in general, as in "Broly would be sane if only Goku hadn't cried that one time when they were babies". I'm not saying that its not true though, I simply don't remember any such phrase. So I would need to see the movie again or see some accurate quotes to actually reply to that.

Personally, I don't think that there's any reason stated in the movie for him being crazy. As you said, he's crazy with Goku or without Goku around. So, I just think that the movie shows us that Goku bothers him to his very core. Even when they were babies, Goku's cry disturbed him very much for that same reason. It didn't make him crazy, it was just really disturbing for him.

As for the LSSJ, Broly is still the LSSJ, with all the LSSJ-like power. But with the interpretation I proposed, he would only be the obvious LSSJ, the apparent LSSJ, while Goku would be the true Legendary Super Saiyan, destined to win, meaning that he would be the LSSJ not because of abnormal power (like Broly is), but because of who he is and what he accomplishes.

And I disagree with you when you say that nothing suggest such a thing. When Goku defeats Broly, we are presented with a flashback of Goku making Broly upset as a baby by crying. To me, the only possible meaning for the placement of such a scene at that time is to empathize, as a metaphor, that Goku, the fated rival of Broly, who had always been able to affect Broly despite their power differences, managed to overcome him and defeat him, which begs the question: who actually is the real legendary super saiyan?

If that is not the case, then why such a scene at that time? Why show Goku being the cause of Broly's craziness? Doesn't make much sense to me.

[hulkty]

I see all these Broly haters saying he is a bad character just because he "went bad from crying baby"...but there was always much more to it that most don't see for some reason. I tried explaining it in detail, but everyone gets confused or thinks I'm talking about something completely different.
I'm given up on pretty much ANYONE that even talks about Broly...
If they like Broly, the don't know enough about him.
If the hate Broly, the don't understand the true meaning of the Goku hate and such.
It will ALWAYS be this way. I honestly feel like I (and maybe Mr. Toriyama) are the only ones left that truly understand...
Broly is the best villain yet...and I'm no where near a "Brolytard"...

[Kamiccolo9]

I see all these Broly haters saying he is a bad character just because he "went bad from crying baby"...but there was always much more to it that most don't see for some reason. I tried explaining it in detail, but everyone gets confused or thinks I'm talking about something completely different.
I'm given up on pretty much ANYONE that even talks about Broly...
If they like Broly, the don't know enough about him.
If the hate Broly, the don't understand the true meaning of the Goku hate and such.
It will ALWAYS be this way. I honestly feel like I (and maybe Mr. Toriyama) are the only ones left that truly understand...
Broly is the best villain yet...and I'm no where near a "Brolytard"...

What's there to get? Broly's not that deep of a character. And whatever depth he has in M8 is pounded out of him and thrown into the wind in M10 and M11.


And it's good to know that the one true Broly fan in the world is here.

[MDSTSSJ]

I like Broly too. In fact, everything related with pure Saiyans, I like it a lot!

I like your interpretation on the LSSJ subject. Maybe Broly somehow felt that Kakarotto will be his opponent in the future.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Oh I hate Broly because he's flat out uninteresting. I understand his back story, it's cool, it's the character itself that makes me facepalm. His fans don't help either .

[MDSTSSJ]

Oh I hate Broly because he's flat out uninteresting. I understand his back story, it's cool, it's the character itself that makes me facepalm. His fans don't help either .

Yeah, I agree with you on the fact that the most Broly fans are very annoying!!

[DNA]

Let's not forget one thing here. The two scientist comment that Goku's cry upset Broli, but what do these guys know? They aren't even Saiyan, they are simply stating a fact from the event they've just witnessed.
Although, they do say something very interesting that I feel helps this theory. They comment that despite the fact that Broli is abnormally strong, it was this low level nobody that managed to disturb him. It's the ant defeating the giant, right there on the maternity ward. This may or may not be a foreshadowing, a destined match, that no matter what happens, Goku, the low level nobody, will find a way to disturb the balance and beat the unbeatable.

[Cursed Lemon]

This is true, but isn't that the theme of almost every battle Goku fights? Goku wasn't supposed to beat Vegeta because he was a "third class dog," he wasn't supposed to beat Frieza because he was "just a monkey," etc.

[hulkty]

I see all these Broly haters saying he is a bad character just because he "went bad from crying baby"...but there was always much more to it that most don't see for some reason. I tried explaining it in detail, but everyone gets confused or thinks I'm talking about something completely different.
I'm given up on pretty much ANYONE that even talks about Broly...
If they like Broly, the don't know enough about him.
If the hate Broly, the don't understand the true meaning of the Goku hate and such.
It will ALWAYS be this way. I honestly feel like I (and maybe Mr. Toriyama) are the only ones left that truly understand...
Broly is the best villain yet...and I'm no where near a "Brolytard"...

What's there to get? Broly's not that deep of a character. And whatever depth he has in M8 is pounded out of him and thrown into the wind in M10 and M11.


And it's good to know that the one true Broly fan in the world is here.

M10 and M11 is what made the hate in the first place. I don't feel like getting into this again...

[Kamiccolo9]

I see all these Broly haters saying he is a bad character just because he "went bad from crying baby"...but there was always much more to it that most don't see for some reason. I tried explaining it in detail, but everyone gets confused or thinks I'm talking about something completely different.
I'm given up on pretty much ANYONE that even talks about Broly...
If they like Broly, the don't know enough about him.
If the hate Broly, the don't understand the true meaning of the Goku hate and such.
It will ALWAYS be this way. I honestly feel like I (and maybe Mr. Toriyama) are the only ones left that truly understand...
Broly is the best villain yet...and I'm no where near a "Brolytard"...

What's there to get? Broly's not that deep of a character. And whatever depth he has in M8 is pounded out of him and thrown into the wind in M10 and M11.


And it's good to know that the one true Broly fan in the world is here.

M10 and M11 is what made the hate in the first place. I don't feel like getting into this again...

Then why bring it up in the first place?