SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

[RandomGuy96]

Seriously? It's a gag feat. Does Mr.Satan surviving Cell count as a feat now? We don't even know how fight went. Base Gotenks could've tried to attack a bored Fat Buu, who even while suppressing himself to 3% power accidentally KO'd Gotenks with a casual kiai that sent him flying.

[Hitiro]

Seriously? It's a gag feat. Does Mr.Satan surviving Cell count as a feat now? We don't even know how fight went. Base Gotenks could've tried to attack a bored Fat Buu, who even while suppressing himself to 3% power accidentally KO'd Gotenks with a casual kiai that sent him flying.

Gotenks was pretty beaten up... There is no way a Kiai could do that amount of damage.. And also. It actually says during the Satan vs. Cell fight that Cell didn't want to dirty his hands against him. So he deliberately didn't kill him. Wasn't really a gag feat despite it looking like one.

[RandomGuy96]

It could from someone that vastly superior, if it sent him flying into a cliff or something.

Satan still survived being punched through a mountain when he later almost died from a bullet. Oh, and during the final battle, he survived a smack from Kid Buu and actually dodged one of his attacks. Clearly we are underestimating Satan's SS3-tier reflexes and durability here. Hell, in the anime. Kid Buu not only hit him more, but actually budged slightly when Mr.Satan was punching him or pulling on his head tentacle. This clearly shows Satan's offensive abilities are also near SS3-tier, or at least closer to them than SS2 tier, otherwise Buu wouldn't have budged an inch a la Semi-Perfect Cell.

[Axiom]

Well if you go by the Super Exciting guide multipliers then your list doesn't make sense.

You have

SSJ Gotenks (post) 1.5
SSJ3 Goku 8
SSJ3 Gotenks 8

Gotenks at 8 disregards the SEG multipliers

SEG

SSJ= 50x Base
SSJ2=100x base/2x SSJ
SSJ3=400x base/4x SSJ2/8x SSJ

If you have SSJ3 Goku at 8 and SSJ post Gotenks at 1.5, then it's impossible for SSJ3 Gotenks to be 8. (8*1.5=12) So Gotenks on your condensed list would be a 12 with SSJ3 Goku at 8. But if you disregard the SEG multipliers then your list works for you I guess.

Ahh, I see - official multipliers. I didn't take that into consideration when I made my list. Sorry.

[Hitiro]

It could from someone that vastly superior, if it sent him flying into a cliff or something.

Satan still survived being punched through a mountain when he later almost died from a bullet. Oh, and during the final battle, he survived a smack from Kid Buu and actually dodged one of his attacks. Clearly we are underestimating Satan's SS3-tier reflexes and durability here.

Not really, being sent flying through a cliff does nothing to fighters that strong.. They fly through things all the time and don't get damaged much. There is no way a single Kiai would leave those bruises.

Satan wasn't punched.. He was swatted away, like a fly. You can swat a fly and it won't die... And he doesn't go flying through the mountain. He just slaps into it.

[RandomGuy96]

It still should've killed him many times over since we see later he's got normal human durability. But nope, he just gets up like nothing happened. Also, he dodged Kid Buu's attack.

Being smacked through the lookout seemed to annoy Gotenks when Super Buu did it. Also, my point is we don't know how the fight went, so it could've just been a dismissive slap with no effort put into it. Dabura easily could've fled too.

[Hitiro]

It still should've killed him many times over since we see later he's got normal human durability. But nope, he just gets up like nothing happened. Also, he dodged Kid Buu's attack.

Well he was bleeding.. And he lost a tooth I think. People have fallen from buildings and survived without any substantial injuries and their impact has been a lot worse. Did he dodge Pure Boo's attack? I thought it was a combination of him ducking in fear and the fact that Good Boo was trying to protect Satan when he was inside Pure Boo. As Pure Boo goes to hit Satan he swings and it misses, but then Pure Boo goes to grabbing his head in pain.

[RandomGuy96]

...you're seriously telling me Satan surviving being punched by Pure Buu and hit into a mountain by Cell aren't gag feats?

He was ducking in fear, but he still reacted at a relativistic speed to dodge Pure Buu.

[Hitiro]

...you're seriously telling me Satan surviving being punched by Pure Buu and hit into a mountain by Cell aren't gag feats?

He was ducking in fear, but he still reacted at a relativistic speed to dodge Pure Buu.

It is a gag but I don't think it is a gag feat that he survived hitting that mountain.. And I don't think it was the ducking in fear that saved him. I think it was Good Boo's doing. But that is just my opinion. Also, if him ducking Pure Boo's punch is a gag then it is a horrible gag. It isn't even funny..

[RandomGuy96]

...I don't see how him accidentally dodging a punch by cowering in fear isn't a gag.

And do you seriously think SS Gotenks (pre) is many times stronger than SS3 Goku? Seems like a huge stretch, unless you think he gets different multipliers.

[Draken]

Well if you go by the Super Exciting guide multipliers then your list doesn't make sense.

You have

SSJ Gotenks (post) 1.5
SSJ3 Goku 8
SSJ3 Gotenks 8

Gotenks at 8 disregards the SEG multipliers

SEG

SSJ= 50x Base
SSJ2=100x base/2x SSJ
SSJ3=400x base/4x SSJ2/8x SSJ

If you have SSJ3 Goku at 8 and SSJ post Gotenks at 1.5, then it's impossible for SSJ3 Gotenks to be 8. (8*1.5=12) So Gotenks on your condensed list would be a 12 with SSJ3 Goku at 8. But if you disregard the SEG multipliers then your list works for you I guess.

Ahh, I see - official multipliers. I didn't take that into consideration when I made my list. Sorry.

Either way Gohan is far above Gotenks whom you have equal to Goku, so it still doesn't make sense since you seem to believe Goku > Gotenks/Gohan.

[Axiom]

I have Gohan stronger, but not FAR above Gotenks. His power in addition to Buu's made Buu Vastly superior to anyone else.

[Draken]

I have Gohan stronger, but not FAR above Gotenks. His power in addition to Buu's made Buu Vastly superior to anyone else.

So if Goku is equal to Gotenks how is Goku also > Gohan...?

[RandomGuy96]

It's factually incorrect to have Goku even close to Gotenks, since he stated many times that Super Buu was way too much for him, while Gotenks pounded Super Buu into the ground.

[Axiom]

It's factually incorrect to have Goku even close to Gotenks, since he stated many times that Super Buu was way too much for him, while Gotenks pounded Super Buu into the ground.

No. I expanded on this a few pages back - he said "US" refering to him and Vegeta at SSJ3. In this arc, Goku prefers fusion over SSJ3, it's more powerful and more reliable.

As for Gotenks - he's an idiot and doesn't know how strong/weak he is. He doesn't know Buu's power changed when he became superbuu, he thinks he can take Buu is base form (twice) and Buu thinks (only since sensing powers) that only Gohan is his equal. Oddly enough, Buff Buu is clearly the second strongest transformation of Buu as well, as he claims he's stronger than he's ever been when he absorbs Gohan.

[Draken]

It's factually incorrect to have Goku even close to Gotenks, since he stated many times that Super Buu was way too much for him, while Gotenks pounded Super Buu into the ground.

No. I expanded on this a few pages back - he said "US" refering to him and Vegeta at SSJ3. In this arc, Goku prefers fusion over SSJ3, it's more powerful and more reliable.

As for Gotenks - he's an idiot and doesn't know how strong/weak he is. He doesn't know Buu's power changed when he became superbuu, he thinks he can take Buu is base form (twice) and Buu thinks (only since sensing powers) that only Gohan is his equal. Oddly enough, Buff Buu is clearly the second strongest transformation of Buu as well, as he claims he's stronger than he's ever been when he absorbs Gohan.

Buff Buu after absorbing Gohan? You mean Buuhan? Oh my gawd do you think Pure Buu > Buuhan? (seeing as you said he's only the second). Oh my freaking god. Did you read the manga or watch the anime?
Actually Buu said Gohan was SUPERIOR to himself. And since he couldn't have that happen (after sensing SSJ3 Goku mind you) he planned to absorb Gotenks so that he would be above Gohan who was above Gotenks who was above Goku.

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta has SS3 now? What are you even talking about?

Gotenks kicked Super Buu's ass. Buu said no such thing, he said that Gohan was the only one to significantly surpass him, not equal him. Buutenks said that he was "the mightiest Majin", so he's stronger than Buff Buu as well.

[Axiom]

It's factually incorrect to have Goku even close to Gotenks, since he stated many times that Super Buu was way too much for him, while Gotenks pounded Super Buu into the ground.

No. I expanded on this a few pages back - he said "US" refering to him and Vegeta at SSJ3. In this arc, Goku prefers fusion over SSJ3, it's more powerful and more reliable.

As for Gotenks - he's an idiot and doesn't know how strong/weak he is. He doesn't know Buu's power changed when he became superbuu, he thinks he can take Buu is base form (twice) and Buu thinks (only since sensing powers) that only Gohan is his equal. Oddly enough, Buff Buu is clearly the second strongest transformation of Buu as well, as he claims he's stronger than he's ever been when he absorbs Gohan.

Buff Buu after absorbing Gohan? You mean Buuhan? Oh my gawd do you think Pure Buu > Buuhan? (seeing as you said he's only the second). Oh my freaking god. Did you read the manga or watch the anime?
Actually Buu said Gohan was SUPERIOR to himself. And since he couldn't have that happen (after sensing SSJ3 Goku mind you) he planned to absorb Gotenks so that he would be above Gohan who was above Gotenks who was above Goku.

Did you even read what I wrote?
Gohan-Buu said he was the strongest he's ever been, a statement he didn't say after he absorbed Gotenks. Meaning Buff-Buu would likely be more powerful than Gotenks-Buu. And Buu NEVER SENSED GOKU. Goku was gone LONG after Buu learned the ability to sense Ki.

[RandomGuy96]

Gotenks-Buu says this:

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P11.1
Boo: “…What do you think, Gohan? My strategy succeeded safely. Look, isn’t it magnificent? This is a moment that will never appear again, no matter what the future may hold: the birth of the strongest majin.”

Buutenks > any form before Buutenks.

Buu sensed Goku when he showed up to fuse with Gohan, and not only does he remain completely unimpressed, but he doesn't comment on Goku having surpassed him (which would be a HUGE deal, seeing as how he acted when Gohan surpassed him) and still says that he'll kill Goku easily when they're both mini.

[Axiom]

Gotenks-Buu says this:

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P11.1
Boo: “…What do you think, Gohan? My strategy succeeded safely. Look, isn’t it magnificent? This is a moment that will never appear again, no matter what the future may hold: the birth of the strongest majin.”

Buutenks > any form before Buutenks.

Buu sensed Goku when he showed up to fuse with Gohan, and not only does he remain completely unimpressed, but he doesn't comment on Goku having surpassed him (which would be a HUGE deal, seeing as how he acted when Gohan surpassed him) and still says that he'll kill Goku easily when they're both mini.

Ahh, I didn't see that, my mistake. But again, how does that mean only Gohan was his superior?

Super-Buu only had sensed Gotenks and Gohan, and once he absorbed Gotenks he was clearly more powerful than everyone (including Goku - the Grand Kai points this out)
Inside of Super-Buu, Goku is a SSJ2 level with Vegeta, obviously he's not serious about beating/fighting Buu at this stage - Buu is stronger than 2 SSJ2s and like Goku explained to Vegeta earlier, SSJ3 is a time limited emergency use only state. Goku's fear comes from the fact they are inside of BUU, a world controlled by him and that the are small, nothing more. From the mere fact that Goku even considers Vegeta's help when he plans to save the boys and revert Buu, means he was planning to attack the Fat-Buu with Vegeta's help and not use his transformation.

It's really quite simple.