Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

It says others. Who else would the "others" be? The Zetto Senshii is clearly the implied answer.

I literally just answered this. "The others" is non-descript and can just refer to "other strong people/other people who were superior to Gotenks". Vegeta, Goku, Buu, post-Zeta Gohan.

[TheMightyOzaru]

If he were to surpass Goku, that would mean he also surpassed SSJ3 Goku.

[RandomGuy96]

...yes? And? He surpassed Vegeta AND these other guys, including SS3 Goku. All that says is that he was weaker than both prior to going in the ROSAT

Disregarding this and going with my theory that skipping SS2 had bad effects for Gotenks (or fusions just have different multipliers) makes things soooooooo much easier. I like my list this way.

And on your list, you can also just buff Pure Buu, as he was implied to be above Goku, while still giving Dai and South different multipliers. That way you won't have to change your levels for East Kaioshin and can have Super Buu at 260,000,000,000.

Buff Buu = (25 + 35) x 5 = 300

Fat Buu = (300 - 3) / 10 = 29.7
--You can interpret his fight with Goku as having him evenly matched with him; neither took the other seriously or could really hurt the other. And to you, Gotenks (pre) is above Goku anyway, so him beating Fat shouldn't be a problem.

Angry Buu = 52
-Evil- 30
-Good- 22
--The power is now split between the Buus. Good Buu is weaker than Mr.Buu (who is mostly South Kaioshin) and Evil Buu is weaker than Kid Buu as a result of both of them coming out of a Dai Kaioshin dominated being, who even at his angriest could not obtain Super Buu's power.

Super Buu = (30 + 22) x 5 = 260

Mr.Buu = (25 + 3) = 28

[dbzfan7]

Can't say I agree with your Gotenks multiplier, but it's your opinion and it also doesn't bloat levels as much which can be a good thing in comparison to movies.

[RandomGuy96]

Can't say I agree with your Gotenks multiplier, but it's your opinion and it also doesn't bloat levels as much which can be a good thing in comparison to movies.

The funny thing is, even though my list unintentionally ended up looking like Kaboom's "compromise" list, it won't actually help with the movies. Goku is just outright stronger than everyone in Movie 13, and in Movie 14, while he isn't the strongest, he's not considered one-shot fodder for Gohan and Gotenks, which on my list he'd still be if his base is still <120,000,000. I mostly like it this way so I don't have to come up with some convoluted formula for why SK boosted Buu so much more than anyone else since, like I said, I think the point of the exposition was just "Buu absorbed a strong person and got strong", not "Buu absorbed a different kind of being and got 10 times stronger". I don't think Toriyama would be cryptic about something like that after seemingly going out of his way to show that Buu's absorptions are additive (then again, I don't think he was thinking in numbers in the first place). The alternative to giving Gotenks a different multiplier to have a conservative list would be following the Daiz statement that SS Gotenks is weaker than SS2 Vegeta, and lolno. Also, so I can still have my Evil Buu theory.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Changed my levels again, I like this more because a hypothetical SSJ4 Goku can potentially beat Gohan during the Buu saga. Gohan's level is also a semi-homage to his Cell games FPSSJ power level. Now I'm sure a lot you are gonna disagree with my levels for Buu but too bad!
Great Saiyaman Arc

7 Years Later
Gohan: 55,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 1,100,000,000
Goten: 20,000,000
SSJ Goten: 1,000,000,000
Trunks: 21,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,050,000,000
Videl: 9

25th Tenkaichi Budokai
Goten: 21,000,000
SSJ Goten: 1,050,000,000
Trunks: 22,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,100,00,000
Mr Satan: 11
Gohan: 56,000,000
Piccolo: 1,200,000,0000
Goku: 80,000,000
Vegeta: 64,000,000
Krillin: 196,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Yamcha: 75,000
Kaioshin: 2,100,000,000
Kibito: 56,000,000
Spopobitchi: 50
Yamu: 45
Videl: 32
FPSSJ Gohan(Angry): 3,080,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,600,000,000

Majin Buu Arc

The Wizard Babidi
Pui Pui: 400,000
Yakon: ?
SSJ Goku: ?
Dabura: 2,800,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 2,800,000,000
Majin FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,000,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,000,000,000
Majin SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 8,000,000,000

Majin Buu Awakens
Majin Buu: 18,000,000,000
-Final Explosion: 16,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
Gotenks: 420,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 21,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Angry to the Point of Splitting): 36,000,000,000
Pure Evil Buu: 24,000,000,000
Good Buu: 12,000,000,000
Evil Buu: 180,000,000,000

Fusion Arc

Fu-Sion-Ha!
Gohan(Post Z-Sword Training): 75,000,000
Goten: 28,000,000
Trunks: 29,000,000
Gotenks: 560,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 28,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gotenks: 56,000,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 224,000,000,000
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
Buutenks: 405,200,000,000
Kibitoshin: 5,750,000,000
Buuhan: 481,257,000,000
Tenshinhan: 180,000
Vegetto: 640,000,000,000
FPSSJ Vegetto: 32,000,000,000,000

Kid Buu Returns!?
Kid Buu: 30,000,000,000
Western Kaioshin: 7,000,000,000
Northern Kaioshin: 4,000,000,000
Southern Kaioshin: 18,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Southern Kaioshin Absorbed): 192,000,000,000
Eastern Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000
Daikaioshin: 12,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
-True Kamehameha: 40,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Good Buu: 12,000,000,000
-Super Genki Dama: 36,000,000,000

Heya!! Son Goku and his Friends Return
Goku: 88,000,000
Vegeta: 88,000,000
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
Piccolo: 1,440,000,000
Videl: 30
Goten: 30,000,000
Trunks: 31,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 216,000
Yamcha: 72,000
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
Mr Satan: 11
Kibitoshin: 5,750,000,000
Tarble: 180
Ava: 800,000
Kado: 800,000
Avakado: 64,000,000
Gotenks: 600,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 30,000,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,400,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,400,000,000

The End

Battle of Gods
Goku: 96,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,800,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 9,600,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 38,400,000,000
SSJ God Goku(80%): 3,840,000,000,000,000
SSJ God Goku: 4,800,000,000,000,000
Goku(After Absorbing SSJ God's Powers): 4,720,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 96,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,800,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta(Enraged): ?
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: ?
Goten: 33,000,000
SSJ Goten: 1,650,000,000
Trunks: 35,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,750,000,000
Gotenks: 660,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 33,000,000,000
Piccolo: 1,800,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 280,000
Tenshinhan: 230,000
Yamcha: 64,000
Videl: 25
Mr Satan: 10
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
Kibitoshin: 5,750,000,000
Birusu(70%): 4,900,000,000,000,000
Birusu: 7,000,000,000,000,000
Uisu: 12,000,000,000,000,000

10 Years Later
Goku: ?
Vegeta: ?
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
Goten: 35,000,000
Trunks: 38,000,000
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 250,000
Piccolo: 2,400,000,000
Videl: 18
Mr Satan: 8
Pan: 32,000,000
Uub: 30,000,000,000

Oozaru: 10x base
Kaioken: This technique increases the users power level based on the number of times it is stacked. Standard Kaioken will raise the users power level by 1.5x.
SSJ: 50x base. This form's multiplier becomes very flexible after mastering SSJ.
SSJG2: 1.5x SSJ
SSJG3: 2x SSJ, this form is incredibly slow so it is impractical in battle.
RESSJ: 10x base, this form is achieved after training yourself to maintain the SSJ form as if it were your base form.
FPSSJ: 5x RESSJ
SSJ2: 2x SSJ or FPSSJ/100x base
SSJ3: 4x SSJ2/400x base
SSJ God: 50,000,000x base
Fusion Dance: Both Power Levels must be equal. A + B x 10.
Potara Earring fusion: A + B x 100. Divide the result by the difference between the original power levels. If the fusees are rivals, the result is like multiplication.
Zenkai: Zenkai's are special power ups Saiyan's receive after healing from near death injuries. In the Early parts of the series, Zenkai's shot up a persons power by a random number however later on in the series these increases were less noticeable. This probably happened because of the SSJ transformation.

[Draken]

How do you have Satan stronger than kid Goku?

[Mjb1985]

Yea I don't think Mr. Satan or his peers are anywhere near Goku's initial power. Not even close imo. It takes Mr. Satan full effort to break 14 tiles while Goku at leisure breaks 3 bricks with one finger. Completely different levels of power.

[TheMightyOzaru]

There's a difference between having Ki and knowing how to use it. I think Mr Satan has a decent amount of Ki, he just doesn't know how to use it. Mr Satan is also a full grown man who has been dedicated to martial arts for well over 12 years I'm sure. Who knows when Goku actually started training. Furthermore breaking 3 bricks was a Saiyan thing.

[Kamiccolo9]

There's a difference between having Ki and knowing how to use it. I think Mr Satan has a decent amount of Ki, he just doesn't know how to use it. Mr Satan is also a full grown man who has been dedicated to martial arts for well over 12 years I'm sure. Who knows when Goku actually started training. Furthermore breaking 3 bricks was a Saiyan thing.

Why would he have any more ki then, say, Bulma?

[TheMightyOzaru]

There's a difference between having Ki and knowing how to use it. I think Mr Satan has a decent amount of Ki, he just doesn't know how to use it. Mr Satan is also a full grown man who has been dedicated to martial arts for well over 12 years I'm sure. Who knows when Goku actually started training. Furthermore breaking 3 bricks was a Saiyan thing.

Why would he have any more ki then, say, Bulma?

Well he's been exposed to martial arts for a large portion of his life. This builds Ki. Master Roshi's training just makes it skyrocket. Mr Satan also isn't as weak as people like to think IMO.

[Mjb1985]

He's super weak imo. He's a normal human. He's comparable to normal humans.

[Kamiccolo9]

Buu Arc Power Levels

Goku-
(Base)-Trash
(SSJ)-Still Trash
(SSJ2)-Big Deal for about 10 minutes...then Trash
(SSJ3)-Big Deal for about 10 minutes...then Trash, then Big Deal for another 10 minutes, then Trash again.
Gohan
(Base)-Wimp
(SSJ)-Dumb Wimp
(SSJ2)-Moody Wimp
(Ultimate)-Catches Goku syndrome. Big Deal for 10 minutes, then Trash.
Goten
(Base)-Irrelevant
(SSJ)-Still Irrelevant
Vegeta
(Base)-Damn Cocky is what he is.
(SSJ)-No one cares.
(Majin)-Liposuction Aid.
(SSJ2)-Collective yawn as nobody cares.
Trunks
(Base)-Punk.
(SSJ)-Still Punk
Piccolo-Soloes everyone. He just doesn't feel like sullying his own hands on grunt work.
Gotenks
(Base)-Abomination.
(SSJ)-Blasphemy.
(SSJ3)-First to be Purged.
Vegetto
(Base)-Coolness.
(SSJ)-Coolness with fabulous hair.
Krillin-That Guy.
Yamcha-
Tien-He's serious. That's the Joke.
Chiaotzu- again.
Android 18-Trash. Hot trash, but still trash.
Fat Buu-Forerunner of eating disorders.
Mr. Buu-Embodiment of overeating.
Gray Buu-Manifestation of anorexia.
Super Buu-Poster boy for self control. No anger management issues or eating disorders here, no sir.
Buutenks-Piccolo throwing Buu a bone.
Buuccolo 1-Round 2
Buuccolo 2-Round 3
Buff Buu-Steroid advertisement.
Pure Buu-That budding serial killer who lives down the road times a thousand.
Mr. Satan-A suprising decent maid.
Videl-She can FLY!
Kaioshin-A bit confused.
Kibito-Confusion is infectuous.
Kibitoshin-Twice the confusion.
South Kaioshin-Tough guy. I think

[dbzfan7]

Buu Arc Power Levels

Goku-
(Base)-Trash
(SSJ)-Still Trash
(SSJ2)-Big Deal for about 10 minutes...then Trash
(SSJ3)-Big Deal for about 10 minutes...then Trash, then Big Deal for another 10 minutes, then Trash again.
Gohan
(Base)-Wimp
(SSJ)-Dumb Wimp
(SSJ2)-Moody Wimp
Goten
(Base)-Irrelevant
(SSJ)-Still Irrelevant
Vegeta
(Base)-Damn Cocky is what he is.
(SSJ)-No one cares.
(Majin)-Liposuction Aid.
(SSJ2)-Collective yawn as nobody cares.
Trunks
(Base)-Punk.
(SSJ)-Still Punk
Piccolo-Soloes everyone. He just doesn't feel like sullying his own hands on grunt work.
Gotenks
(Base)-Abomination.
(SSJ)-Blasphemy.
(SSJ3)-First to be Purged.
Vegetto
(Base)-Coolness.
(SSJ)-Coolness with fabulous hair.
Krillin-That Guy.
Yamcha-
Tien-He's serious. That's the Joke.
Chiaotzu- again.
Android 18-Trash. Hot trash, but still trash.
Fat Buu-Forerunner of eating disorders.
Mr. Buu-Embodiment of overeating.
Gray Buu-Manifestation of anorexia.
Super Buu-Poster boy for self control. No anger management issues or eating disorders here, no sir.
Buutenks-Piccolo throwing Buu a bone.
Buuccolo 1-Round 2
Buuccolo 2-Round 3
Buff Buu-Steroid advertisement.
Pure Buu-That budding serial killer who lives down the road times a thousand.
Mr. Satan-A suprising decent maid.
Videl-She can FLY!
Kaioshin-A bit confused.
Kibito-Confusion is infectuous.
Kibitoshin-Twice the confusion.
South Kaioshin-Tough guy. I think

Where's Ultimate Gohan?

Also your list sucks. Everyone knows Mr. Satan is the true savior and is blessed by Toriyama. Only problem is he isn't allowed to show his true power. Notice how he is the only one who never dies.

[Kamiccolo9]

Where's Ultimate Gohan?

Also your list sucks. Everyone knows Mr. Satan is the true savior and is blessed by Toriyama. Only problem is he isn't allowed to show his true power. Notice how he is the only one who never dies.

Fixed.

And it's my personal canon. Piccolo>All. Toryama said so in an interview.

[dbzfan7]

Where's Ultimate Gohan?

Also your list sucks. Everyone knows Mr. Satan is the true savior and is blessed by Toriyama. Only problem is he isn't allowed to show his true power. Notice how he is the only one who never dies.

Fixed.

And it's my personal canon. Piccolo>All. Toryama said so in an interview.

Toriyama also said Mr. Satan is secretly hiding his full power that surpasses even Toribot. It's in the Super Amazing Super Guide. It's why Mr. Satan never dies.

[RandomGuy96]

An interview with Super Otaku Magazine also had Akira say that he always intended for Mr. Satan (full power) to be > Super Vegetto, but still below SS3 Goku.

[dbzfan7]

An interview with Super Otaku Magazine also had Akira say that he always intended for Mr. Satan (full power) to be > Super Vegetto, but still below SS3 Goku.

LALALALALALA I'm not listening I'm doing the typical fan thing. Your just wrong bleh.

[Kamiccolo9]

You are both wrong, and using horribly outdated sources. The newest issue of Super Exciting Otaku Guide 12 has a forward written by a guy who talked to Toryama's first editor's wife a couple years ago, and she said that Piccolo was the strongest. This is canon fact, and cannot be debated.

[dbzfan7]

You are both wrong, and using horribly outdated sources. The newest issue of Super Exciting Otaku Guide 12 has a forward written by a guy who talked to Toryama's first editor's wife a couple years ago, and she said that Piccolo was the strongest. This is canon fact, and cannot be debated.

This was debunked by a fellow internet nerd who proved the Super Exciting Otaku Guide doesn't exist and that it is a fan made interview like the one where Toriyama said the Z fighters were all much faster than light.