Why does Goku hate Cell?
- RandomGuy96
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Just as an aside, anime Goku wasn't stronger than Super Buu. When he admits he can't beat him, repeats it again, wants no part in fighting him, gets beaten up by Buutenks, and at one point was three seconds away from being killed by Super Buu, then a later line that says Kid Buu is the strongest Buu (after he has trouble with someone Grey Buu annihilated no less) isn't "the anime version", it's a plot hole.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
He later fights Buuhan in SSJ2, Pure Buu in SSJ2, and Pure Buu is directly said to be the strongest 3 times. It violates the manga, but it's not a plot hole. Buu Arc Goku is just an asshole who refuses to take things seriously in the anime.RandomGuy96 wrote:Just as an aside, anime Goku wasn't stronger than Super Buu. When he admits he can't beat him, repeats it again, wants no part in fighting him, gets beaten up by Buutenks, and at one point was three seconds away from being killed by Super Buu, then a later line that says Kid Buu is the strongest Buu isn't "the anime version", it's a plothole.
But lets please not turn this into a Buu Arc power debate. If you want to go on, PM me.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
I do accept what he wrote, I also accept that Toriyama makes stuff up on the fly and creates plot holes. I don't think anything Goku does makes him that unlikable, so real world morality doesn't exactly apply. He saves the universe, so he's forgivable.Kamiccolo9 wrote:It's been driven into him that his power is necessary numerous times. And this is his dad talking to him. Gohan worships Goku. He's not gonna say no.ABED wrote: Gohan shows NO reluctance. It would be one thing if he resigned himself to the knowledge that his power was neccessary, but he wanted to train.
He was mad but he showed zero fear afterwards.
I don't have to accept everything the anime says or even toriyama says. Toriyama even contradicts himself. Gohan's reason for turning SS in the anime contradicts nothing we know about him.
What's he supposed to do against Cell, see everything he loves destroyed?
He did go to Namek to help Piccolo, but he doesn't fear fighting and doesn't run away from it unless it's a tactical retreat.
You will keep looking for stuff to be pissed at. Now he refuses to look in on his family? He's not the best family man, but it's conjecture that Kaio would tell him about his family. It's never brought up.
I already went over your last point, Gohan can handle himself but Goku might attract a being that while not more powerful than Gohan, could destroy the world because Goku was there. His logic however mistaken, is that he's a bad luck charm, and powerful evil seems to find him wherever he is.
Because he was mad. Gohan doesn't think when he's mad. He was plenty scared when he and Krillin were running from Dodoria a few pages later.
The only reason you haven't accepted what Toryama wrote in the manga concerning the Buu Arc is because it makes Goku into a character that is unlikable. But if you're cherry picking facts from both the manga and the anime, there is no point to this discussion.
That's my point. When there is an immediate threat, Gohan is willing to step in. But after Cell died, there wasn't one. Just 7 years of peace. Goku would have kept up his training (and did) even in peacetime, and he expected Gohan to do the same, which is why he's surprised that he didn't. Goku was expecting Gohan to act like him without understanding that Gohan was his own person.
You keep trying to find ways to defend him. What Goku did in the Buu Arc was criminally stupid, and resulted in the deaths of every human except one. He had numerous chances to prevent that from happening, yet he kept passing the buck to his kids. Goku directly caused Buu to wake up by not stomping Vegeta, he should take responsibility for his own actions, not let his sons clean up his mess. Kaioshin asked Goku to come with him to help against Babidi, when the god of gods doesn't mind a dead guy helping the world of the living, you don't argue with him.
Gohan isn't a blind follower, he loves his dad, and he seems genuinely excited about Goku and Piccolo training with him.
I don't think Goku expected Gohan to train like him, I think he at least expected him to keep his skills sharp.
I'm defending Goku, not Toriyama's terrible plotting. You keep dismissing what he said to Piccolo. What reason was there for him to lie? You bring up the God of gods, his elder says that a living person should save the living world.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
He lied to Piccolo because he wanted the kids to save the world. I thought that was obvious.ABED wrote: I do accept what he wrote, I also accept that Toriyama makes stuff up on the fly and creates plot holes. I don't think anything Goku does makes him that unlikable, so real world morality doesn't exactly apply. He saves the universe, so he's forgivable.
Gohan isn't a blind follower, he loves his dad, and he seems genuinely excited about Goku and Piccolo training with him.
I don't think Goku expected Gohan to train like him, I think he at least expected him to keep his skills sharp.
I'm defending Goku, not Toriyama's terrible plotting. You keep dismissing what he said to Piccolo. What reason was there for him to lie? You bring up the God of gods, his elder says that a living person should save the living world.
Goku never asks Gohan to train with them. He just assumes that he is going to. Right after he tells everyone what Trunks said, he asks Piccolo if he wants to train with him and Gohan. The next thing we see is Goku telling Chi-Chi that they really need Gohan. We never see what Gohan has to think about Goku volunteering him.
He says that he can't wait to see how much stronger Gohan's got. Then Vegeta tells him that Gohan hasn't trained at all.
The Old Kaioshin has no problem letting Vegeta help out. Vegeta was dead. Goku couldn't help out while dead because his time had run out, which is why the Old Kaioshin gave Goku his life. And he wasn't even around when Goku decided it wasn't his place to help out.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
No, he tells Piccolo that he didn't think he could win and even if he could, the kids should probably be the ones to save the world. Meaning he didn't have to lie if he thought so the whole time. Assuming all he wants is the kids to save the world, there's no reason for him to lie. Piccolo puts up little if any resistence to Goku's logic.Kamiccolo9 wrote:He lied to Piccolo because he wanted the kids to save the world. I thought that was obvious.ABED wrote: I do accept what he wrote, I also accept that Toriyama makes stuff up on the fly and creates plot holes. I don't think anything Goku does makes him that unlikable, so real world morality doesn't exactly apply. He saves the universe, so he's forgivable.
Gohan isn't a blind follower, he loves his dad, and he seems genuinely excited about Goku and Piccolo training with him.
I don't think Goku expected Gohan to train like him, I think he at least expected him to keep his skills sharp.
I'm defending Goku, not Toriyama's terrible plotting. You keep dismissing what he said to Piccolo. What reason was there for him to lie? You bring up the God of gods, his elder says that a living person should save the living world.
Goku never asks Gohan to train with them. He just assumes that he is going to. Right after he tells everyone what Trunks said, he asks Piccolo if he wants to train with him and Gohan. The next thing we see is Goku telling Chi-Chi that they really need Gohan. We never see what Gohan has to think about Goku volunteering him.
He says that he can't wait to see how much stronger Gohan's got. Then Vegeta tells him that Gohan hasn't trained at all.
The Old Kaioshin has no problem letting Vegeta help out. Vegeta was dead. Goku couldn't help out while dead because his time had run out, which is why the Old Kaioshin gave Goku his life. And he wasn't even around when Goku decided it wasn't his place to help out.
Yeah, he assumes Gohan's going to, but Gohan shows no reluctance. During the Cell arc, he's always looking to help out.
Okay you're right about Goku thinking he'd get stronger, but did he expect his son, who he knew wanted to be a scholar after Cell's defeat, to train like him?
All your point about Old Kaioshin tells me is Toriyama is inconsistent in his writing. He did say he agreed that the living should be the ones to defend the living world.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Because Piccolo would do what I've been doing, and call Goku an irresponsible idiot for not saving the world when he had the chance, and putting the fate of the world in the hands of two kids. And I doubt Piccolo seriously think Goku would be stupid enough to lie about something like that. As it turns out, Piccolo was wrong, and Goku was that stupid.ABED wrote: No, he tells Piccolo that he didn't think he could win and even if he could, the kids should probably be the ones to save the world. Meaning he didn't have to lie if he thought so the whole time. Assuming all he wants is the kids to save the world, there's no reason for him to lie. Piccolo puts up little if any resistence to Goku's logic.
Yeah, he assumes Gohan's going to, but Gohan shows no reluctance. During the Cell arc, he's always looking to help out.
Okay you're right about Goku thinking he'd get stronger, but did he expect his son, who he knew wanted to be a scholar after Cell's defeat, to train like him?
All your point about Old Kaioshin tells me is Toriyama is inconsistent in his writing. He did say he agreed that the living should be the ones to defend the living world.
We never see Gohan's reaction. The manga completely skips over the training, and goes straight to 3 years later. The only thing Gohan says during the entire process is "No thanks," when Chi-Chi asks them if they want to bring some lunch. I seriously doubt that Gohan, being a half blooded Saiyan, who are specifically noted to not have the drive to train that full blooded Saiyans do, was happy to devote 3 years of his life putting his studies on hold to train. Gohan wants to be a scholar, not a fighter.
I'm not remembering that quote. When does he say that? I know that before he gives his life to Goku, he says that he'll give Goku his life instead of Kaioshin's so that the young can live, or something like that. When does the Old Kaioshin say anything about protecting the world to be the responsibility of the living?
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
I don't recall Goku being a liar. Piccolo doesn't call Goku out about the Cyborgs, and there's this exchangeKamiccolo9 wrote:Because Piccolo would do what I've been doing, and call Goku an irresponsible idiot for not saving the world when he had the chance, and putting the fate of the world in the hands of two kids. And I doubt Piccolo seriously think Goku would be stupid enough to lie about something like that. As it turns out, Piccolo was wrong, and Goku was that stupid.ABED wrote: No, he tells Piccolo that he didn't think he could win and even if he could, the kids should probably be the ones to save the world. Meaning he didn't have to lie if he thought so the whole time. Assuming all he wants is the kids to save the world, there's no reason for him to lie. Piccolo puts up little if any resistence to Goku's logic.
Yeah, he assumes Gohan's going to, but Gohan shows no reluctance. During the Cell arc, he's always looking to help out.
Okay you're right about Goku thinking he'd get stronger, but did he expect his son, who he knew wanted to be a scholar after Cell's defeat, to train like him?
All your point about Old Kaioshin tells me is Toriyama is inconsistent in his writing. He did say he agreed that the living should be the ones to defend the living world.
We never see Gohan's reaction. The manga completely skips over the training, and goes straight to 3 years later. The only thing Gohan says during the entire process is "No thanks," when Chi-Chi asks them if they want to bring some lunch. I seriously doubt that Gohan, being a half blooded Saiyan, who are specifically noted to not have the drive to train that full blooded Saiyans do, was happy to devote 3 years of his life putting his studies on hold to train. Gohan wants to be a scholar, not a fighter.
I'm not remembering that quote. When does he say that? I know that before he gives his life to Goku, he says that he'll give Goku his life instead of Kaioshin's so that the young can live, or something like that. When does the Old Kaioshin say anything about protecting the world to be the responsibility of the living?
{Piccolo:} In Super Saiyajin 3 mode, if you fought all out, couldn't you beat Majin Buu? Am I wrong?
{Goku:} No, I don't think so. Majin Buu's strength is unbelievable...I probably couldn't win.
{Piccolo:} Probably?...Why didn't you go all the way? Does it have to do with that energy problem?
{Goku:} Nope.
{Goku:} I shouldn't even be here, it's not something I should do.
{Goku:} I think someone who's still alive should solve this problem. Even if I defeated Majin Buu, you never know when another fierce opponent will show up.
{Goku:} This is a risky bet but...
{Goku:} But when I saw those two super genius kids, I decided to chance it.
{Piccolo:} Are you really willing to bet the future of the Earth on Goten and Trunks?
{Goku:} Don't you think that's the better choice?
{Piccolo:} You're really an impressive guy.
I never argued that he was super happy, but he didn't resent his father, he didn't force anything on him. You're exactly right, he doesn't say a thing, meaning he doesn't have a problem with it because he knows he's needed, just like he was needed to fight Cell.
There are how many chapters, how am I supposed to remember exactly when Kaioshin says that. It might just be the anime, but that's not the worst thing. It doesn't contradict what we know of him. He does bitch a lot about the natural order, but letting the dead save the living world is okay?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Here's a better translation. Not sure where yours is from.ABED wrote: I don't recall Goku being a liar. Piccolo doesn't call Goku out about the Cyborgs, and there's this exchange
{Piccolo:} In Super Saiyajin 3 mode, if you fought all out, couldn't you beat Majin Buu? Am I wrong?
{Goku:} No, I don't think so. Majin Buu's strength is unbelievable...I probably couldn't win.
{Piccolo:} Probably?...Why didn't you go all the way? Does it have to do with that energy problem?
{Goku:} Nope.
{Goku:} I shouldn't even be here, it's not something I should do.
{Goku:} I think someone who's still alive should solve this problem. Even if I defeated Majin Buu, you never know when another fierce opponent will show up.
{Goku:} This is a risky bet but...
{Goku:} But when I saw those two super genius kids, I decided to chance it.
{Piccolo:} Are you really willing to bet the future of the Earth on Goten and Trunks?
{Goku:} Don't you think that's the better choice?
{Piccolo:} You're really an impressive guy.
I never argued that he was super happy, but he didn't resent his father, he didn't force anything on him. You're exactly right, he doesn't say a thing, meaning he doesn't have a problem with it because he knows he's needed, just like he was needed to fight Cell.
There are how many chapters, how am I supposed to remember exactly when Kaioshin says that. It might just be the anime, but that's not the worst thing. It doesn't contradict what we know of him. He does bitch a lot about the natural order, but letting the dead save the living world is okay?
Piccolo agrees that it's a good option because Goku tells him that he couldn't beat Buu on his own. Piccolo has no problem with Goku going to fight Buu in the first place. In your translation, he evades the issue of if he could beat Buu or not. In the direct translation from the Japanese manga, he says that he probably couldn't beat Buu. Given that he later says he could, we know that he's lying to Piccolo.Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P10.5-8, P11.1-3
Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?...How about it, am I wrong?”
Goku: “Nah, I don’t know…When it comes to Majin Boo’s strength, it’s like a lie…I think that I probably couldn’t have won…”
Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?...Does it have to do with that energy…?”
Goku: “No…I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”
Since when does silence equal compliance? It could have just as easily been that he didn't want to disappoint his father, who, we must remember, has been in space for a year. Goku just got back, Gohan isn't going to refuse to help him.
So now you're saying that the quote, or lack of one, doesn't matter? He's fine with dead Vegeta helping out, he's fine giving his own life for Goku's, and he's fine with the Dragon Balls after Goku bribes him.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Was Kaioshin fine with the dragon balls being used, he bitches several times that it's unnatural.
What evasion? He tells him he doesn't think he can win in both translations. That's an answer, not an evasion. After he stops the fight he had so little time, and based on that, it's likely he wouldn't have had the time to defeat an opponent he doesn't know he could win against.
No, we dont' know he's lying, all we know is Toriyama is inconsistent. It seems out of character for Goku to lie like that. Why would Goku hold back and bring about Buu's resurrection? It's not so he could fight him.
Gohan isn't going to refuse to help him.
Because he wants to help out. That's much more in keeping with what we know of Gohan to that point. He has a strong sense of right and wrong and doesn't want to see harm come to his friends, but when it's his turn to step up he says "I don't want to fight". Okay, but there's no choice, and he knows it. What was he gonna accomplish with Cell?
I read the two translations and they aren't different. Slight changed phrasings, but more or less identical in meaning.
What evasion? He tells him he doesn't think he can win in both translations. That's an answer, not an evasion. After he stops the fight he had so little time, and based on that, it's likely he wouldn't have had the time to defeat an opponent he doesn't know he could win against.
No, we dont' know he's lying, all we know is Toriyama is inconsistent. It seems out of character for Goku to lie like that. Why would Goku hold back and bring about Buu's resurrection? It's not so he could fight him.
Gohan isn't going to refuse to help him.
Because he wants to help out. That's much more in keeping with what we know of Gohan to that point. He has a strong sense of right and wrong and doesn't want to see harm come to his friends, but when it's his turn to step up he says "I don't want to fight". Okay, but there's no choice, and he knows it. What was he gonna accomplish with Cell?
I read the two translations and they aren't different. Slight changed phrasings, but more or less identical in meaning.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
And he's fine with it after Goku promises to let him touch Bulma's boobs.ABED wrote:Was Kaioshin fine with the dragon balls being used, he bitches several times that it's unnatural.
What evasion? He tells him he doesn't think he can win in both translations. No, we dont' know he's lying, all we know is Toriyama is inconsistent. It seems out of character for Goku to lie like that. Why would Goku hold back and bring about Buu's resurrection? It's not so he could fight him
Gohan isn't going to refuse to help him.
Because he wants to help out. That's much more in keeping with what we know of Gohan to that point. He has a strong sense of right and wrong and doesn't want to see harm come to his friends, but when it's his turn to step up he says "I don't want to fight". Okay, but there's no choice, and he knows it. What was he gonna accomplish with Cell?
Later on, Goku flat out says he could have killed Fat Buu.
Out of character or not, he still lied. He wanted Goten and Trunks to fight.Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”
Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”
He wasn't going to fight Cell until Cell pushed him over the edge by killing 16. His friends are getting tortured, and he's still not fighting. Goku failed to let Gohan in on his plan for him to kill Cell, so Gohan has no idea what's going on when Goku first sends him in. What's more, Goku actually gives Cell a senzu.
All throughout the arc, and afterwards, Goku is projecting himself on Gohan, because he doesn't really know him. As soon as Gohan doesn't have any major threat looming over him, he drops his training, and starts doing what he wants to do. Goku wasn't expecting that.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
No, out of character means the author messed up. There's no reason for him to lie about something like that, and we've never seen that from him in the past, it was Toriyama's failed attempt at creating drama and when he got further into the story and needed Goku to be stronger, he said that he fibbed. All you've shown is that Toriyama messed up and scrambled for way around the inconsistency and created one that put Goku in a bad light that was out of character for him. That's not Goku being a bastard, it's Toriyama being a bad writer.
I know the line you speak of, but if he already acknowledged that line of thought to Piccolo, why bother telling him a lie? Why not say, "No, I could have beat him, but I'm not even supposed to be here..."
Actually Kaioshin bitches after Goku promised he'd let him touch Bulma's breasts. He complained during and after the wishes were made.
Gohan wanted to help out. You read something into it that wasn't in the text. God forbid the reader and Goku take his son at face value that Gohan wanted to help out. There is nothing Cell did that was different than any other villain, he threatened Gohan's friends and family, so it's not too much of a stretch to think Gohan would fight for them. How is it any different than any of the other villains he came up against? It was dumb to not let Gohan in on his plan, but the fact that Gohan wasn't fighting was so out of character at that point. He didn't have to like fighting, he just had to want to protect his loved ones which there was precident for.
Perhaps Goku expected Gohan would've done the sensible thing, but that doesn't make him terrible, it makes him fallible.
I know the line you speak of, but if he already acknowledged that line of thought to Piccolo, why bother telling him a lie? Why not say, "No, I could have beat him, but I'm not even supposed to be here..."
Actually Kaioshin bitches after Goku promised he'd let him touch Bulma's breasts. He complained during and after the wishes were made.
Gohan wanted to help out. You read something into it that wasn't in the text. God forbid the reader and Goku take his son at face value that Gohan wanted to help out. There is nothing Cell did that was different than any other villain, he threatened Gohan's friends and family, so it's not too much of a stretch to think Gohan would fight for them. How is it any different than any of the other villains he came up against? It was dumb to not let Gohan in on his plan, but the fact that Gohan wasn't fighting was so out of character at that point. He didn't have to like fighting, he just had to want to protect his loved ones which there was precident for.
Perhaps Goku expected Gohan would've done the sensible thing, but that doesn't make him terrible, it makes him fallible.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
He lies because he wanted the kids to handle it. He says so himself. Numerous times. What part of that are you not getting?ABED wrote:No, out of character means the author messed up. There's no reason for him to lie about something like that, and we've never seen that from him in the past, it was Toriyama's failed attempt at creating drama and when he got further into the story and needed Goku to be stronger, he said that he fibbed. All you've shown is that Toriyama messed up and scrambled for way around the inconsistency and created one that put Goku in a bad light that was out of character for him. That's not Goku being a bastard, it's Toriyama being a bad writer.
I know the line you speak of, but if he already acknowledged that line of thought to Piccolo, why bother telling him a lie? Why not say, "No, I could have beat him, but I'm not even supposed to be here..."
Actually Kaioshin bitches after Goku promised he'd let him touch Bulma's breasts. He complained during and after the wishes were made.
Gohan wanted to help out. You read something into it that wasn't in the text. God forbid the reader and Goku take his son at face value that Gohan wanted to help out. There is nothing Cell did that was different than any other villain, he threatened Gohan's friends and family, so it's not too much of a stretch to think Gohan would fight for them. How is it any different than any of the other villains he came up against? It was dumb to not let Gohan in on his plan, but the fact that Gohan wasn't fighting was so out of character at that point. He didn't have to like fighting, he just had to want to protect his loved ones which there was precident for.
Perhaps Goku expected Gohan would've done the sensible thing, but that doesn't make him terrible, it makes him fallible.
And Dende says that they are being used for good, and Kaioshin says "ok." He obviously doesn't complain when it's over.
There's nothing to take at face value. We're not given Gohan's thoughts.
Gohan didn't fight for his family and friends though. He fought when 16 was killed, and after that, to make Cell suffer.
I'm not saying that makes Goku character. I'm saying that he doesn't know his son.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
He wanted his kids to handle it either way, what about that are you not getting?
We see Gohan's actions and he doesn't complain a single bit, and we've seen how he fights to protect the people he loves. He doesn't have to like it. Never said he had to, just that he had to fight Cell and there's no logical reason for him to get cold feet against Cell.
Why do you think he was fighting to make Cell suffer for? Hurting his friends.
Maybe he doesn't know his son, because him not fighting was out of nowhere. Ever since Vegeta, he's always fought. Nothing changed except now it was all on him and he was in a position to actually win.
Anyways, I think this is going around in circles. We're repeating ourselves. We should do the written equivalent to shaking hands.
We see Gohan's actions and he doesn't complain a single bit, and we've seen how he fights to protect the people he loves. He doesn't have to like it. Never said he had to, just that he had to fight Cell and there's no logical reason for him to get cold feet against Cell.
Why do you think he was fighting to make Cell suffer for? Hurting his friends.
Maybe he doesn't know his son, because him not fighting was out of nowhere. Ever since Vegeta, he's always fought. Nothing changed except now it was all on him and he was in a position to actually win.
Anyways, I think this is going around in circles. We're repeating ourselves. We should do the written equivalent to shaking hands.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Okay.ABED wrote:He wanted his kids to handle it either way, what about that are you not getting?
We see Gohan's actions and he doesn't complain a single bit, and we've seen how he fights to protect the people he loves. He doesn't have to like it. Never said he had to, just that he had to fight Cell and there's no logical reason for him to get cold feet against Cell.
Why do you think he was fighting to make Cell suffer for? Hurting his friends.
Maybe he doesn't know his son, because him not fighting was out of nowhere. Ever since Vegeta, he's always fought. Nothing changed except now it was all on him and he was in a position to actually win.
Anyways, I think this is going around in circles. We're repeating ourselves. We should do the written equivalent to shaking hands.
And sorry if I came off as rude. Regardless of if we disagree, I've enjoyed this debate. Anything's better than constant power levels
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Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Thanks, it was informative. No problem, I enjoyed this as well. I can get pretty into things, and unfortunately some take disagreement as an affront to them. I'll admit it's something I had to get over, but as long as something doesn't devolve into personal attacks, I enjoy this sort of back and forth.Kamiccolo9 wrote:Okay.ABED wrote:He wanted his kids to handle it either way, what about that are you not getting?
We see Gohan's actions and he doesn't complain a single bit, and we've seen how he fights to protect the people he loves. He doesn't have to like it. Never said he had to, just that he had to fight Cell and there's no logical reason for him to get cold feet against Cell.
Why do you think he was fighting to make Cell suffer for? Hurting his friends.
Maybe he doesn't know his son, because him not fighting was out of nowhere. Ever since Vegeta, he's always fought. Nothing changed except now it was all on him and he was in a position to actually win.
Anyways, I think this is going around in circles. We're repeating ourselves. We should do the written equivalent to shaking hands.
And sorry if I came off as rude. Regardless of if we disagree, I've enjoyed this debate. Anything's better than constant power levels
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
I know I'm late and it's over, but I thought it was pretty clear that Goku lied....
He literally said, "The truth is". He admitted he lied earlier, and that the TRUTH is he could have beaten Fat Buu.
He literally said, "The truth is". He admitted he lied earlier, and that the TRUTH is he could have beaten Fat Buu.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Goku gives people chances, Vegeta had a chance, Frieza had a chance, Cell killed both Goku, Trunks, nearly blew up Earth, then re-appeared with the intentions of killing Gohan then destroying Earth, I guess Goku was right about needing to finish him quick.
After such much chances not being taken and villains still being Evil I think Goku started thinking "Don't do this" then if they continue it's a "I warned you, you leave me no choice" kind of thing instead of giving them extra chances once beaten and almost dead.
After such much chances not being taken and villains still being Evil I think Goku started thinking "Don't do this" then if they continue it's a "I warned you, you leave me no choice" kind of thing instead of giving them extra chances once beaten and almost dead.
Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
He let Vegeta live because he wanted to fight him again. He let Freeza live as he would have to suffer a massive embarrassment that is worse than death. I have no idea for Cell honestly why he must instantly die. he was just as bad as Freeza. My bet he stopped being an idiot by letting people live as it came to bite him in the ass with Freeza and would have been Vegeta if Freeza didn't go to Namek.ThePrinceOfSaiyans wrote:Goku gives people chances, Vegeta had a chance, Freeza had a chance, Cell killed both Goku, Trunks, nearly blew up Earth, then re-appeared with the intentions of killing Gohan then destroying Earth, I guess Goku was right about needing to finish him quick.![]()
After such much chances not being taken and villains still being Evil I think Goku started thinking "Don't do this" then if they continue it's a "I warned you, you leave me no choice" kind of thing instead of giving them extra chances once beaten and almost dead.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Cell was an evil monster who wanted to kill everything. And he pretty much came close to that.
And that's why Goku hated Cell.
EDIT: After reading the posts in this thread, the reason why Goku wanted to Cell out of the picture ASAP was that there was no scenario that made sparing Cell seem like a good idea. Piccolo and Vegeta were put at Goku's mercy, so Goku might figured "Hey, ya know what, this was fun, let's do it again". He also might have thought they were redeemable beings. Goku spared Frieza as Frieza was at his mercy and he probably thought Frieza could be redeemed (as he tells to find the "value of life"), but he later acknowledges that it was a mistake to let Frieza go when speaking to Future Trunks. Goku only spared Majin Buu because he wanted the "younger generation" to do the job.
Cell was never at Goku's mercy and Cell was just too dangerous to keep alive. The latter is justified as had Gohan killed Cell ASAP, Cell wouldn't have attempted to blow himself up. ANd had not Gohan blew Cell to bits, Cell would have blown everyone to bits.
And that's why Goku hated Cell.
EDIT: After reading the posts in this thread, the reason why Goku wanted to Cell out of the picture ASAP was that there was no scenario that made sparing Cell seem like a good idea. Piccolo and Vegeta were put at Goku's mercy, so Goku might figured "Hey, ya know what, this was fun, let's do it again". He also might have thought they were redeemable beings. Goku spared Frieza as Frieza was at his mercy and he probably thought Frieza could be redeemed (as he tells to find the "value of life"), but he later acknowledges that it was a mistake to let Frieza go when speaking to Future Trunks. Goku only spared Majin Buu because he wanted the "younger generation" to do the job.
Cell was never at Goku's mercy and Cell was just too dangerous to keep alive. The latter is justified as had Gohan killed Cell ASAP, Cell wouldn't have attempted to blow himself up. ANd had not Gohan blew Cell to bits, Cell would have blown everyone to bits.
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Re: Why does Goku hate Cell?
Vegeta was hardly at Goku's mercy. Vegeta beat Goku into a bloody pulp, and was only stopped due to sheer dumb luck. In no way was letting him go a good idea, and Vegeta even says later on that he's going to go right back and blow up Earth. If Freeza hadn't gone to Namek to get the Dragon Balls, Vegeta would have flown right back to Earth, and nuked the planet from orbit.Dr. Machismo wrote:Cell was an evil monster who wanted to kill everything. And he pretty much came close to that.
And that's why Goku hated Cell.
EDIT: After reading the posts in this thread, the reason why Goku wanted to Cell out of the picture ASAP was that there was no scenario that made sparing Cell seem like a good idea. Piccolo and Vegeta were put at Goku's mercy, so Goku might figured "Hey, ya know what, this was fun, let's do it again". He also might have thought they were redeemable beings. Goku spared Freeza as Freeza was at his mercy and he probably thought Freeza could be redeemed (as he tells to find the "value of life"), but he later acknowledges that it was a mistake to let Freeza go when speaking to Future Trunks. Goku only spared Majin Buu because he wanted the "younger generation" to do the job.
Cell was never at Goku's mercy and Cell was just too dangerous to keep alive. The latter is justified as had Gohan killed Cell ASAP, Cell wouldn't have attempted to blow himself up. ANd had not Gohan blew Cell to bits, Cell would have blown everyone to bits.
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Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).





