Goku > Gohan or Gotenks by end of the series?

[RandomGuy96]

"Gohan is stronger than Goku, so it's not fair to compare them."

[Axiom]

No you didn't. You didn't prove shit besides your own conjecture and speculation. I also like how you completely avoid my point and just flout around like a little kid "nope too late I already proved you wrong <3 .

Do we really have to bring back the never-ending barrage of Strength Checker quotes again...?

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

Speaks for it fucking self. I don't understand why the debate doesn't end here.

Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P5.5
Context: Elder Kaioshin warning Goku about recklessly going to rescue Gohan from Gotenks-absorbed Boo
Elder Kaioshin: “I hate to say it, but I don’t think you could win against this current Majin Boo even if the two of you went at him together…”

Let's see. Gohan > Super Buu. Agreed? Good. Gotenks >=< Super Buu. Agreed? Good. Gotenks absorbed Super Buu > Gohan. Agreed? Good. Gotenks absorbed Super Buu > Goku. Agreed? Good.

How does that prove anything whatsoever that Goku > Gohan again? (pointing to your previous "proof")

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P13.1
Context: still talking about how they’re no match for Boo
Goku: “…But there is one way we can win!”
Vegeta: “You want to say Fusion, right? Well who cares about that?!”
Goku: “Huh? You know about it?”
Vegeta: “I saw it from the afterlife…You’ve got to be joking! You think I’d perform those ugly poses…?! Anyway, I thought I told you that I’m not going to merge with you a second time.”

Goku and Vegeta need fusion to beat Super Buu. Gotenks and Gohan do not.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”
Note: "He’s shrunk" is chidzimu, which typically refers to physical shrinking (like with Bulma's Micro Band) and throughout DB is never used to refer to ki diminishing. So Vegeta's probably talking about how Boo’s body has shrunk. That doesn't mean Boo's ki didn't go down too, but it's not what Vegeta's talking about here.

"We did it!" What so their goal this entire time was to make Buu stronger than he ever was? I don't fucking think so.

Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.3
Context: as Goku and Vegeta play rock-paper-scissors to decide who fights Boo
Elder Kaioshin: “Th-those dimwits! Th-they intend to fight one at a time?! They’re not gonna fight together?!”

They were even willing to fight together for Super Buu. But now that Buu is stronger and can obviously beat them up they'll go 1 by 1 now right?

You don't have a point. I posted the actual manga and exactly what it states - everything else you post is foolishness.

[Draken]

Hey whoa man are you saying Hermes is not the actual manga?!!

I'm sorry man, everything I post is foolishness.

Wait if I called myself foolishness but me calling myself is foolishness does that mean that it's not actually foolishness???

I'm confused now.



Guys he ran out of firepower (y)

[Mjb1985]

Heck, Goku probably never even gets as strong as Post Zeta Gohan is.

[Axiom]

Hey whoa man are you saying Hermes is not the actual manga?!!

I'm sorry man, everything I post is foolishness.

Wait if I called myself foolishness but me calling myself is foolishness does that mean that it's not actually foolishness???

I'm confused now.



Guys he ran out of firepower (y)

Well yeah, I'm saying some of what you posted isn't correct. I pointed it out twice in scans I posted how Herms translation could not be correct. I know what those parts say, but Goku's admission later proves that he was holding back the whole time, he's stronger than Gohan and Gotenks by a lot, especially by the end of Z.

[Mjb1985]

It's ok man, a lot of people also have a hard time accepting that Goku isn't the strongest. It is weird for sure, but it's not the end of the world! Many series don't have the protagonist as the strongest and they are great stories as well.

[Draken]

Hey whoa man are you saying Hermes is not the actual manga?!!

I'm sorry man, everything I post is foolishness.

Wait if I called myself foolishness but me calling myself is foolishness does that mean that it's not actually foolishness???

I'm confused now.



Guys he ran out of firepower (y)

Well yeah, I'm saying some of what you posted isn't correct. I pointed it out twice in scans I posted how Herms translation could not be correct. I know what those parts say, but Goku's admission later proves that he was holding back the whole time, he's stronger than Gohan and Gotenks by a lot, especially by the end of Z.

Could not be correct... because it doesn't fit with your viewpoint and perspective?
And you call other people biased.

Herms apparently your translations aren't accurate anymore

What admission? The admission that he could beat Fat Buu? How does that prove he's stronger than Gohan and Gotenks? The fuck. Gohan divided by 2 = still stronger than Fat Buu. Both Gohan and Gotenks could have easily given Fat Buu the beatdown, I don't see how this is a relevant point. Even base Gotenks didn't get 1 shotted by Fat Buu and that's 400x weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks.

Gohan potential > Goku potential. Stated, proved, shown, illustrated, demonstrated, whatever other verbs a hundred times over. Rou Kaioshin brought Gohan PAST his limit. Goku is at his limit. Goku is at a limit that is lower than Gohan's limit. Gohan is PAST his limit.

Uhhhh.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's ok man, a lot of people also have a hard time accepting that Goku isn't the strongest. It is weird for sure, but it's not the end of the world! Many series don't have the protagonist as the strongest and they are great stories as well.

Seeing as making Goku the strongest in the Buu Arc also turns him into a complete asshole who is perfectly willing to let the universe burn, I think it's much better for him not to be the strongest.

[Mjb1985]

Goku not being maximum is tough to swallow. Almost everyone has made this mistake when they were new. Give him a chance!

[TheGmGoken]

1st clue - Gohan being mistaken for Goku. Gohan powered up so much, it's thought that he could be Goku, which wouldn't make sense if Goku was many times weaker as implied by people on this forum.

Last time they sensed Goku he was a SSJ3 and the strongest they sensed that's a Hero. Gohan had slacked off and was weak. Plus he was wearing his dad's colors. So they easily thought it was Goku who gotten stronger and returning as he does that in every arc before.

Huh? It's obvious tha Gohan is within the realm of Goku's power -not the other way around.

2nd clue - Gohan is apparently only a little stronger than Gotenks, but a comparison to Goku isn't mentioned here. Why?

Goku wasn't there and wasn't the strongest at the time. Future Trunks and Gohan never got compared. Does that mean Trunks > Gohan?

What? You previously stated that Goku was the strongest character, but notice there is no comparison to his strength (ever)

3rd clue - Buu absorbs Gotenks over Gohan because he wants the stronger opponent to fight. (later on he picks Gohan over Goku, hmmm)

He takes Gohan over Goku because he played Goku like a fool. Goku was acting like Boo could't take Gohan away. He was always being cocky. Also Goku did say "Gohan can take you now.". He didn't say He could take him.

Uh huh...so what he said before was a lie?

The supreme Kai doesn't think that Goku AND Gohan are strong enough to take on Buu together. Again, if the Gap between them was so vast and Goku so weak, why did he mention them both and no specifically Goku? In Herms translation, It's implied that "even WITH Gohan's help" (and not the other way around) Goku wouldn't be able to beat him.

Cause he was talkng about Both of them. Not just Goku.
Again, he tells the Kibito that he is far too weak and he'd get in the way - nothing of the sort is implied. In fact, the only objection to Goku fighting thus far has been the fact that he wasn't among the living.

Your 5th clue is the same as the 3rd one. So just read Clue 3 responds.
Huh?

Goku wasn't aware that the Fatbuu was located inside Buu's body, meaning Herms translation is incorrect. Goku planned on fighting SuperBuu himself.

7th clue - Vegeta outright states that no one but Goku is a match for this Buu

That's cause of Goku's fighting skill/gift. Also unlike the others Goku has experince and fight to test his limits
What does that have to do with power?

8th clue - Vegeta totally mancrushing on Goku's power (no mention of Gotenks or Gohan since their last appearance)

He does tis all the time. He idin't even do it for SSJ2 Kid Gohan but he was jealous of FFPSSJ Goku
He'll begrudgingly admit when someone is the strongest, and here he is, crushing over Goku - NOT Gohan or Gotenks.

9th clue - Goku suggesting both Gohan AND Gotenks help may be needed, implying 2 things. 1. This Buu is stronger than SuperBuu, and 2. Gohan's help alone may have not been enough.

Pure Boo being stronger than Super Boo. *sigh* Not this again. Notice how Goku speaks when Pure Boo appears. Goku said Super Boo and Buff Boo was strong. But didn't really say much of Pure Boo.
Yes he did - he commented on how much more powerful he was becoming, and THEN the Supreme Kai comments on it too. In fact, what sense does it make for the Supreme Kai to be MORE afraid of a weaker Buu (KiddBuu) over a supposedly stronger form (SuperBuu, "BuffBuu")

End of Z comments on Goku's power. Vegeta doesn't believe that anyone could be a match for Goku, implying that he is stronger than everyone (this includes Gohan and Gotenks)

Unless it's Vegeta himself. Vegeta doesn't think anyone can beat Goku.

11th Clue -Goku's excitment in finding Uub and training with him. Goku wants to fight him again more than anything (the next panel comments on how happy Goku is to find someone else so strong) Of course we know Vegeta is strong too but why is Goku more excited to fight Uub? Because he's potentially stronger (And this also applies to Gohan and Gotenks)

Goku wants to train someone and get stronger to give him a challenge and for someone to take his place. As Goku always wanted that. He knows Gohan and Gotenks don't want this.

It has nothing to do with what they want - the last panel specifically states it's not about saving the world.

I think we are done here.

You're done.
It doesn't matter what you think!

Why didn't you jkust reply outside of the post. Not in the quote. That's....weird and hard to read. You're first and second reply makes Zero sense. Your third comment. He wanted to test his power. With Goku. He wanted to show how much of a dumbass Goku was. So he mocked him by saying he still had a piece of his head on the ground. Your 5th and 3rd clue said the same thing. Goku love for fighting cause him tof ight BETTER than anyone else. Vegeta....always on Goku's power. He didn't really talk about Gohan SSJ2 Ki. Goku isn't the strongest. What's so hard about it. Not even Goku wants to be the strongest. He might be the strongest in terms of being a hero but in power. Pssh. He's ranked 11th at best.

[mAcChaos]

Man I just realized with Gotenks we have a good way to ballpark Gohan's power.

Gotenks and Super Buu are around the same level. So adding them both to make Buutenks beats Gohan. That means that Gohan's power maxes out at double Gotenks'.

And then adding Buuhan into the mix we can ballpark Vegito.

Buuhan = Gohan + Gotenks + Super Buu = Maxes out at 3x stronger than Super Buu.

[TheGmGoken]

Man I just realized with Gotenks we have a good way to ballpark Gohan's power.

Gotenks and Super Buu are around the same level. So adding them both to make Buutenks beats Gohan. That means that Gohan's power maxes out at double Gotenks'.

We don't know that. Why would Buutenks be double Gotenks power. It's a little more than that IMO.

[RandomGuy96]

That's only if you believe Super Buu and Gotenks are equal. Going by the fight itself, Gotenks is much, much stronger.

Also, Buuhan is Super Buu + Gohan + Piccolo + Goten + Trunks, not Super Buu + Gohan + Gotenks.

[mAcChaos]

Man I just realized with Gotenks we have a good way to ballpark Gohan's power.

Gotenks and Super Buu are around the same level. So adding them both to make Buutenks beats Gohan. That means that Gohan's power maxes out at double Gotenks'.

We don't know that. Why would Buutenks be double Gotenks power. It's a little more than that IMO.

Well, Gotenks and Super Buu are about even. So you add them together, you get someone who is as strong as both of them. If Gotenks and Super Buu are each represented by a value of 1, then 1 (Gotenks) + 1 (Super Buu) = 2 (Buutenks). And that means Gohan would have to be between 1 and 2.

[mAcChaos]

That's only if you believe Super Buu and Gotenks are equal. Going by the fight itself, Gotenks is much, much stronger.

Also, Buuhan is Super Buu + Gohan + Piccolo + Goten + Trunks, not Super Buu + Gohan + Gotenks.

Was he? I thought Super Buu was not going all out yet since he was waiting for Gohan the whole time. And Gotenks could never finish Buu off.

Well, at the very least they were even. Gotenks can be a bit stronger but it doesn't change the idea much.

[Mjb1985]

Yea Buu's absorbtion adding power to his own makes a lot of sense.

Gotenks + Piccolo + Super Buu = Buutenks

Doesn't get much more simple than that!

[Draken]

That's only if you believe Super Buu and Gotenks are equal. Going by the fight itself, Gotenks is much, much stronger.

Also, Buuhan is Super Buu + Gohan + Piccolo + Goten + Trunks, not Super Buu + Gohan + Gotenks.

Was he? I thought Super Buu was not going all out yet since he was waiting for Gohan the whole time. And Gotenks could never finish Buu off.

Well, at the very least they were even. Gotenks can be a bit stronger but it doesn't change the idea much.

I thought even before Super Buu found out about Gohan and began to stall he was still getting beaten.

[RandomGuy96]

That's only if you believe Super Buu and Gotenks are equal. Going by the fight itself, Gotenks is much, much stronger.

Also, Buuhan is Super Buu + Gohan + Piccolo + Goten + Trunks, not Super Buu + Gohan + Gotenks.

Was he? I thought Super Buu was not going all out yet since he was waiting for Gohan the whole time. And Gotenks could never finish Buu off.

Well, at the very least they were even. Gotenks can be a bit stronger but it doesn't change the idea much.

He was just about to finish Buu off before he defused. Super Buu not going all out wasn't stated, it's just a common and plausible fan theory. I don't buy it since Super Buu seemed extremely pissed and he almost died, which would make this the worst plan ever. I also don't think Super Buu is this good of an actor; look at him every time he tries to hit Gotenks and gets stomped in turn.

Him being much stronger would, though.

I thought even before Super Buu found out about Gohan and began to stall he was still getting beaten.

He found about Gohan before he fought SS3 Gotenks. But he was still losing horribly even before he learned about Gotenks' fusion limits. He never seemed to be able to do anything meaningful to Gotenks.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I think Super Buu was stalling as well. His power and Gotenks are basically the same imo.

[Son_Gohan]

I posted the actual manga and exactly what it states

What you posted has Goku indicate inferiority to Gohan:



If you mean to argue the opposite, I can't fathom why you'd even think of posting it? That's really shooting yourself in the foot.