Goku > Gohan or Gotenks by end of the series?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:35 am

Boo may have been trying to stall against Gotenks, but it still seems he bit off more than he could chew. He couldn't have anticipated the little punk whipping out Super Saiyan 3.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:37 am

Was Super Buu not expecting Gotenks to have SS3? Was he expecting normal Super Saiyan Gotenks to give him an edge against Gohan?

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:39 am

Son_Gohan wrote:
Axiom wrote:I posted the actual manga and exactly what it states
What you posted has Goku indicate inferiority to Gohan:

If you mean to argue the opposite, I can't fathom why you'd even think of posting it? That's really shooting yourself in the foot.

I bet he will say that Goku means it as an insult. "EVEN THIS WEAKLING GOHAN can take you now!"

:3333

I thought Gotenks was going even with Buu since Gotenks was pummeling Buu, but everybody does that and Buu heals. It leaves no lasting effect, so I don't really count that as having a huge advantage over him. Looking at the manga, for most of the fight they trade blows.

Also Gotenks Buu admits to Gohan later that he was waiting for him, so it does say it in the manga. That would imply that he wasn't going all out.

Axiom · Post by **Axiom** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:39 am

These multipliers don't make any sense - when Buu lost Super Gotenks, he was said to have lost a 3rd of his power. It's not simple multiplication.

We do know for sure that Goku was stronger than Gotenks, and Gotenks is slightly weaker than Gohan. And Both Gotenks AND Gohan assistance was suggested whenGoku was fighting KidBuu.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:39 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Was Super Buu not expecting Gotenks to have SS3? Was he expecting normal Super Saiyan Gotenks to give him an edge against Gohan?

I dunno. We might have a bit of a mystery on our hands here.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:41 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Was Super Buu not expecting Gotenks to have SS3? Was he expecting normal Super Saiyan Gotenks to give him an edge against Gohan?

What's odd is that Buu didn't seem to recognize SSJ3. IIRC, he just said something about Gotenks looking "different."

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:43 am

I thought Gotenks was going even with Buu since Gotenks was pummeling Buu, but everybody does that and Buu heals. It leaves no lasting effect, so I don't really count that as having a huge advantage over him. Looking at the manga, for most of the fight they trade blows.

Also Gotenks Buu admits to Gohan later that he was waiting for him, so it does say it in the manga. That would imply that he wasn't going all out.

Contrast Super Buu being beaten up by Gotenks to Fat Buu being beaten up by Vegeta; one is fine and the other is messed up. And Gotenks was about to kill Buu, and would've if he didn't defuse at the last second.

Looking at the fight, they didn't really trade blows at all. Gotenks just stomped him out; Super Buu was only able to get in a couple of shots because Gotenks acted careless twice, causing Piccolo to yell at him. The rest of the time, Gotenks was beating on him non-stop.

Nothing says he wasn't going all out, though.

What's odd is that Buu didn't seem to recognize SSJ3. IIRC, he just said something about Gotenks looking "different."

He may or may not be obfuscating stupidity, unless Gotenks is suppressed or something; Buu can sense ki, as he just sensed a power larger than his earlier in another dimension. How is he not sensing a power above his standing right in front of him?

I dunno. We might have a bit of a mystery on our hands here.

We know that Buu sensed Gohan before Gotenks went SS3, at least. So I think that implies he views SS Gotenks as a power that can help him match or even slightly surpass Gohan.

Hmmm... would that suggest for fusions, SS to SS3 isn't a big jump? Or base to SS? Going purely by feats, it didn't seem like that big of a jump for Gotenks. He was able to actually land a hit on Buu as a mere Super Saiyan, even if he got bashed around with ease for the rest of the fight, and would have killed Buu with the Kamikaze Ghosts had he actually burned every part of Buu. Buu couldn't tank him like he could base Gotenks. Buu doing a power up after that wasn't noted, either.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:45 am

We do know for sure that Goku was stronger than Gotenks,

You think SSJ3 Gotenks < Goku(Full power. SSJ3). Okay I Understand Base Gotenks < SSJ3 Goku. But SSJ,SSJ2, and SSJ3 Gotenks can kick GOku's ass. Easily. Goku can't even fight Super Boo alone. Gotenks can handle Boo in a fight. This is not the anime nor the english dub(Where Goku said Boopiccolo is weaker than Goku). The manga shows and proves Gotenks > Goku.

What's odd is that Buu didn't seem to recognize SSJ3. IIRC, he just said something about Gotenks looking "different."

Maybe he forgot for a short moment or Toriyama had a short burst of brain farts. I would say maybe he thought only tall people can get it but that's mean and unfair to Vegeta

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:45 am

Buu's plan didn't occur to him until he fought Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks. When Gotenks told him his fusion would die out soon, that's when he enacted his plan.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:49 am

The way Buu speaks of it, he came up with his plan right when he sensed Gohan, which I think was right before he entered the ROSAT.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:51 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
What's odd is that Buu didn't seem to recognize SSJ3. IIRC, he just said something about Gotenks looking "different."
He may or may not be obfuscating stupidity, unless Gotenks is suppressed or something; Buu can sense ki, as he just sensed a power larger than his earlier in another dimension. How is he not sensing a power above his standing right in front of him?

I'm not talking about power. I'm referring to the crazy hair and lack of eyebrows.

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:52 am

He said he came up with the plan as he was fighting the Super Gotenks squirt. That would be Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

Super Saiyan Gotenks wouldn't help him beat Gohan.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:53 am

That would seem to suggest that he was just playing dumb. He says later that he remembers Goku as Fat Buu, and Goku explicitly spelled out his transformations and showed him what SS3 looked like.

Axiom · Post by **Axiom** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:54 am

TheGmGoken wrote:
We do know for sure that Goku was stronger than Gotenks,
You think SSJ3 Gotenks < Goku(Full power. SSJ3). Okay I Understand Base Gotenks < SSJ3 Goku. But SSJ,SSJ2, and SSJ3 Gotenks can kick GOku's ass. Easily. Goku can't even fight Super Boo alone. Gotenks can handle Boo in a fight. This is not the anime nor the english dub(Where Goku said Boopiccolo is weaker than Goku). The manga shows and proves Gotenks > Goku.

What's odd is that Buu didn't seem to recognize SSJ3. IIRC, he just said something about Gotenks looking "different."
Maybe he forgot for a short moment or Toriyama had a short burst of brain farts. I would say maybe he thought only tall people can get it but that's mean and unfair to Vegeta

Funny, I just read the Manga (and posted it) and I missed that part. Oh right, it wasn't implied at all.

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:55 am

He began the plan when he first sensed Gohan. He didn't have any real opportunity until Super Gotenks occurred though. It's not like he knew Gotenks would have Super Saiyan 3.

When Gotenks tells him his fusion would run out, Buu looks surprised. He then comes out and proceeds to get his butt whooped which encouraged Gotenks to fight him again.

Buutenks " Fortunately the brat mentioned he had limited time "

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:58 am

Mjb1985 wrote:He began the plan when he first sensed Gohan. He didn't have any real opportunity until Super Gotenks occurred though. It's not like he knew Gotenks would have Super Saiyan 3.

When Gotenks tells him his fusion would run out, Buu looks surprised. He then comes out and proceeds to get his butt whooped which encouraged Gotenks to fight him again.

But his plan from the beginning was to absorb Gotenks to become stronger than Gohan. The only Gotenks he knew of at the time he sensed Gohan was SS Gotenks...

If you're judging by facial expressions, he also looked really pissed when Gotenks was beating on him. And he almost died. I really, really doubt Super Buu is this good of an actor. Not to mention he was still getting his ass whooped before he learned of the limit, and didn't seem to act any different after.

Draken · Post by **Draken** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:58 am

Axiom wrote:These multipliers don't make any sense - when Buu lost Super Gotenks, he was said to have lost a 3rd of his power. It's not simple multiplication.

We do know for sure that Goku was stronger than Gotenks, and Gotenks is slightly weaker than Gohan. And Both Gotenks AND Gohan assistance was suggested whenGoku was fighting KidBuu.

No we don't. That's purely an opinion.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:59 am

We know for sure that Goku is weaker than Super Buu. He says so himself many times.

Axiom · Post by **Axiom** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:01 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:We know for sure that Goku is weaker than Super Buu. He says so himself many times.

And then contradicts that statement by fighting Kiddbuu.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:02 am

Nope. He states that Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu when he says that "they did it" and can "finally manage something", and when he says they shouldn't form Vegetto because "it's not fair, Buu ain't merged either".

Goku himself says Super Buu will make him his bitch. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.

Kanzenshuu

Goku > Gohan or Gotenks by end of the series?

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