Buu's Absorptions and South Kaioshin

[RandomGuy96]

This is a thread with four purposes. I just want to see some people's thoughts on this:

1. How strong do you think South Kaioshin was? Why did Kid Buu absorb him?

We KNOW that Buu absorbed South Kaioshin after just killing West and North. We also know that South Kaioshin was the strongest of the Kaioshin, being 'somehow' absorbed by Buu. But that's all the manga really tells us.

The Z sword sequence would seem to suggest he's weaker than SS/SS2 Gohan; Gohan is able to pull out the Z sword that "not only [Kibito] but numerous Kaioshin were unable to free". However, it's never stated or really even heavily implied that South Kaioshin tried. On the other hand it would be a bit odd if he didn't, if the sword really was as legendary as East Kaioshin made it out to be. But then, there's also the anti-Kaioshin seal theory, which has some basis as it was put there by a magic using enemy of the Kaioshin.

There's also the anime filler scene of Kid Buu and South Kaioshin's battle; South Kaioshin blocks and counters some of Kid Buu's hits and gets in a couple of shots, but is easily taken down when Kid Buu lands a solid kick on him. This one kick appears to do a ton of damage; South Kaioshin is covered in wounds afterwards and has trouble standing afterward. The way the anime has it, Buu appeared to be outclassing South Kaioshin handily but absorbed him because either he recognized his strength as worth taking or was just feeling lulzy.

Spoiler:

The manga may imply something else with Kibitoshin's "somehow"'; he didn't say this about Dai Kaioshin, and already knew how Buu absorbed people, so it seems unlikely he's referring to Buu's method of absorbing people. It seems like he's considering South Kaioshin's defeat as something that "somehow" happened.

Additionally, there's Mr. Buu. He should contain both the Kaioshin that were contaminating Buu, so he could he possibly tell us South Kaioshin's strength? I go by him since it seems to coincide with the above anime sequence; I have South Kaioshin making up the vast majority of his strength, with Dai Kaioshin's just being a small addition. We saw that Mr. Buu was strong enough to put up a fight against Kid Buu (unlike Vegeta) in the vein of Goku vs Freeza or Super Buu vs Gotenks, but Kid Buu obviously outclassed him. Still, it didn't seem like a MONSTROUS difference.

2. How strong do you think Buff Buu was?

I've usually believed that Buff Buu was only a bit above Super Buu based on the following quote:

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P13.5
Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Goku has trouble telling that Buu's ki is even rising. This to me indicates it's not that big of a jump in power; maybe 10% or so. However I've seen some interesting points on Buff Buu brought up. Mainly, look at his head tentacle:



The length may appear longer than it is because Buu is bending his legs here, but Buu's head tentacle is quite long. Not Buuhan long, but still long. Some people propose that the head tentacle is proportionate to his strength, which isn't completely baseless. Compare Evil Buu, Super Buu, Piccolo-Buu, Gotenks-Buu, and Gohan-Buu.











This may suggest that Buff Buu rivals Ultimate Gohan; his head tentacle goes down to his waist or so.

3. Was South Kaioshin's absorption completely unique?

Stuff in favor for it:
1. Kid Buu didn't get South Kaioshin's shirt
2. Buu's body changed significantly, unlike with other absorptions.
3. Buu's facial features didn't change.
4. Kaioshin energy couldn't be used to resurrect Buu.
5. Super Buu was implied to be multifolds above Kid Buu through Gotenks.

Stuff against:
1. Buu's absorptions were explicitly established as additive earlier by Buu himself.
2. South Kaioshin's absorption was never stated to be different, and Toriyama is a simple author who doesn't like to leave things too cryptic.
3. The Daizenshuu implies the Gotenks stuff was false.

4. Power Level obsessed folks only: do any of you have a nice looking formula for this?

Here are my current levels on this whole thing:

SS3 Goku- 32,000,000,000

Kid Buu- 36,000,000,000
--South Kaioshin absorbed- 126,000,000,000

South Kaioshin- 27,000,000,000

Grand Kaioshin- 2,000,000,000

Mr. Buu- 29,000,000,000

Super Buu- 112,000,000,000 = Fat Buu (full power)

Ultimate Gohan- 200,000,000,000

SS3 Gotenks- 150,000,000,000

(yeah, based on their fight, I have Gotenks way above Super Buu)

I have the absorption of SK at (A + B) x 2. That looks kind of sloppy to me. I'm wondering if someone can come up with something more... "stylish", or "elegant", I guess, like TheMightyOzaru's two digits theory. If you can keep my exact levels while doing this, and not make Super Buu more than 5 times stronger than Kid Buu, and integrate that same system to Dai Kaioshin weakening Buff Buu to Fat Buu's full power (which I think is equal to Super Buu, especially considering what the Daizenshuu said), then all the better.

[Axiom]

Hasn't everyone in this whole forum already proved these stupid theories false? How many threads are we going to make on the same subject, and we always end up back at the same spot - you're wrong and everyone else who actually reads the media (all of it) is right. You're not even trying to hide how biased you are at this point, if you've already made up your mind, why post?

[Kamiccolo9]

Hasn't everyone in this whole forum already proved these stupid theories false? How many threads are we going to make on the same subject, and we always end up back at the same spot - you're wrong and everyone else who actually reads the media (all of it) is right. You're not even trying to hide how biased you are at this point, if you've already made up your mind, why post?

Could you please just attempt to be civil? If you disagree, then fine, but don't insult your fellow members. It just results in people arguing, moderators getting involved, and threads getting shut down, which is no fun for anyone.

[Kaboom]

Hasn't everyone in this whole forum already proved these stupid theories false? How many threads are we going to make on the same subject, and we always end up back at the same spot - you're wrong and everyone else who actually reads the media (all of it) is right. You're not even trying to hide how biased you are at this point, if you've already made up your mind, why post?

Same could be said for you. This is your last free verbal warning about the bad attitude. Calling people's theories stupid and saying "you're wrong, end of story" is not how we conduct ourselves here. Post with civility and respect or don't post at all.


Anyhoo... I really do like the idea that the length of Boo's head-tentacle is roughly representative of his power. It would all add up rather nicely with how I view each Boo's strength, too. The short-tentacles ones are all somewhere on the general high-SSj2 to high-SSj3 level, and the long-tentacled ones are all venturing into "so far above SSj3 that you're pretty much boned if you're not Gogeta or Vegetto" territory.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's a neat idea, and one that I hadn't considered before. Makes sense to me

[MDSTSSJ]

I personally put South Kaio maybe at SSJ2 level or maybe a little less, nothing more. For Pure Boo, was convenient and advantageous absorb that kind of power.

I like you theory about head tentacles in all Boo´s!!

I always put Buff Boo as the strongest and being on par with Ultimate Gohan. A 10% of difference in power between him an Super Boo is too short.

I always thought that maybe Pure Boo never use the absorption method before and that´s why he acted desperately absorbing Dai Kaio. Well, Pure Boo is insane and the craziest!

[Kaboom]

It's a neat idea, and one that I hadn't considered before. Makes sense to me

More than that, it seems like the fun kind of thing Toriyama would do.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's a neat idea, and one that I hadn't considered before. Makes sense to me

More than that, it seems like the fun kind of thing Toriyama would do.

Yeah, I think you're right.
Is there a picture of the other Buuccolo? I forget how long his head tentacle was.

[Axiom]

I personally put South Kaio maybe at SSJ2 level or maybe a little less, nothing more. For Pure Boo, was convenient and advantageous absorb that kind of power.

I like you theory about head tentacles in all Boo´s!!

I always put Buff Boo as the strongest and being on par with Ultimate Gohan. A 10% of difference in power between him an Super Boo is too short.

I always thought that maybe Pure Boo never use the absorption method before and that´s why he acted desperately absorbing Dai Kaio. Well, Pure Boo is insane and the craziest!

That's never said - but "Buff"Buu is considered to be Pure Buu. He is specifically stated to be stronger than Super Buu.

[Kaboom]

Is there a picture of the other Buuccolo? I forget how long his head tentacle was.

I just looked it up, and turns out Goku chopped the end of it off with his little comeback kienzan. It stayed that way, the same length but sliced off, until Boo absorbs Gohan. Including during Boo's short stint with Piccolo being the dominant absorption.

[Kamiccolo9]

Is there a picture of the other Buuccolo? I forget how long his head tentacle was.

I just looked it up, and turns out Goku chopped the end of it off with his little comeback kienzan. It stayed that way, the same length but sliced off, until Boo absorbs Gohan. Including during Boo's short stint with Piccolo being the dominant absorption.

So, as far as we know, it fits too. Awesome.

[Kaboom]

That settles it, then. From this point on I will group the different Boos together into rough tiers of power according to the length of their head-dinguses.


In terms of how absorbing different beings actually affects Boo's power... I think that while for most folks it'd be simple addition (Gotenks/Gotenk/Trunks, Piccolo, Gohan), the Kaioshin may be different. If they're holy beings with a special type of power that doesn't mesh well with Majin Boo's, then it'd be reasonable to think that absorbing them may grant wildly different effects from each one to another. South Kaioshin may well have somehow granted Boo far more power than simply the addition of his own, and the Grand Kaioshin may have inversely subtracted more power than he himself had.

[MDSTSSJ]

I personally put South Kaio maybe at SSJ2 level or maybe a little less, nothing more. For Pure Boo, was convenient and advantageous absorb that kind of power.

I like you theory about head tentacles in all Boo´s!!

I always put Buff Boo as the strongest and being on par with Ultimate Gohan. A 10% of difference in power between him an Super Boo is too short.

I always thought that maybe Pure Boo never use the absorption method before and that´s why he acted desperately absorbing Dai Kaio. Well, Pure Boo is insane and the craziest!

That's never said - but "Buff"Buu is considered to be Pure Buu. He is specifically stated to be stronger than Super Buu.

Yes, Buff Boo is stronger than Super Boo and Buff Boo is a lot stronger than Pure Boo.

For you, what would be the result in a merger between two strong characters? Buff Boo is the result of a fusion between two strong guys. Pure Boo is not, he is an only being.

[RandomGuy96]

Minor quibble: the head tentacle theory would suggest that the jump in power from Kid to Super is smaller than the jump from Super to Buff.

Also, only marginally related, but the Daizenshuu also implies fusion is simple addition by it's placement of Goten and Gotenks.

[Axiom]

I personally put South Kaio maybe at SSJ2 level or maybe a little less, nothing more. For Pure Boo, was convenient and advantageous absorb that kind of power.

I like you theory about head tentacles in all Boo´s!!

I always put Buff Boo as the strongest and being on par with Ultimate Gohan. A 10% of difference in power between him an Super Boo is too short.

I always thought that maybe Pure Boo never use the absorption method before and that´s why he acted desperately absorbing Dai Kaio. Well, Pure Boo is insane and the craziest!

That's never said - but "Buff"Buu is considered to be Pure Buu. He is specifically stated to be stronger than Super Buu.

Yes, Buff Boo is stronger than Super Boo and Buff Boo is a lot stronger than Pure Boo.

For you, what would be the result in a merger between two strong characters? Buff Boo is the result of a fusion between two strong guys. Pure Boo is not, he is an only being.

Buff Buu IS pureBuu. I didn't see the south Kai leave his body, did you?

[Linkthoy]

1. How strong do you think South Kaioshin was? Why did Kid Buu absorb him?

Maybe not quite as as strong Pure Buu, but enough to put up a good fight. During the fight Buu could have realized that he could absorb people, and decided to absorb South, because Buu thought it might help him.

2. How strong do you think Buff Buu was?

I would say he is definitely stronger than Pure Buu, but beyond that its hard to place him in any definte spot. As Kaboom mentioned, the Kaioshins divine ki could have random effects on Buu's physiology. Who knows, maybe if Buu absorbed West he could just have be transformed into a woman and nothing else .

3. Was South Kaioshin's absorption completely unique?

Yes. I would say that based on what we have seen, Buu absorbing any being with divine ki, would result in a random, but unique effect on Buu.

As for question 4, I'm not much of Power Level junkie so I'm gonna skip that one.

Buff Buu IS pureBuu. I didn't see the south Kai leave his body, did you?

That could be because that after so long beings absorbed by Buu, could be fully integrated into him. So the Buu we know (until Goku and Vegeta riped out Mr. Buu) literally is South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin.
Also, it's Kaioshin. The Kai's (or Kaio) are King Kai and his counterparts.

[MDSTSSJ]

Buff Buu IS pureBuu. I didn't see the south Kai leave his body, did you?

Pure Boo is Pure Boo and Buff Boo is Buff Boo, two different characters. South Kaioshin somehow disappears from Pure Boo´s body, somehow he lost the fusion.

Buff Boo kept the transformation and fight against East Kaio and never revert to a Pure Boo again.

[Axiom]

Buff Buu IS pureBuu. I didn't see the south Kai leave his body, did you?

Pure Boo is Pure Boo and Buff Boo is Buff Boo, two different characters. South Kaioshin somehow disappears from Pure Boo´s body, somehow he lost the fusion.

Buff Boo kept the transformation and fight against East Kaio and never revert to a Pure Boo again.

They aren't two different people, Buff Buu is never mentioned in any media. Ever.

[Kamiccolo9]

Buff Buu IS pureBuu. I didn't see the south Kai leave his body, did you?

Pure Boo is Pure Boo and Buff Boo is Buff Boo, two different characters. South Kaioshin somehow disappears from Pure Boo´s body, somehow he lost the fusion.

Buff Boo kept the transformation and fight against East Kaio and never revert to a Pure Boo again.

They aren't two different people, Buff Buu is never mentioned in any media. Ever.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.3-4
Context: Kaioshin explains Boo's history
Kaioshin: “…First, two [Kaioshins] were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo…..”
Elder Kaioshin: …And he become that huge Boo from before?“
Kaioshin: “…Yes……”

Notice how they separate Pure and Buff Buu. Pure Buu became "that huge Buu."

[TheGmGoken]

Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

I took that as Goku being confused why it was increasing not that it's barely increasing. I also follow the idea of how long the tentacle is. Which shows his power. So I have Buff Boo above Mystic Gohan and weaker than Gotenks Boo(But not a huge gap. Like 10%)

3. Was South Kaioshin's absorption completely unique?

I think it is. I think all Kaioshin's absorption are weak. That fat Kaioshin...IMO didn't gain his clothes. The pants were the same. They clothes could have been from Fat Boo seeing the other Kaioshins having clothes...wanting clothes as well.

Could you please just attempt to be civil? If you disagree, then fine, but don't insult your fellow members. It just results in people arguing, moderators getting involved, and threads getting shut down, which is no fun for anyone.

I think he's a troll honestly

I can't believe people are just now using his head to show his power. I came up with that when I first watched DBZ O_O. I thought it would have been a common idea here.