Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?

[RandomGuy96]

Just wondering what other people think of this. The Daizenshuu gave Nappa a power level of 4,000. Does that seem too high to anyone else? Just some feats here:

-Krillin, at <2,000, made him look like a fool in their brief fight, kicking him away, easily dodging his punch, cutting his cheek, and dodging his blast.
-One punch from Piccolo (implied to be <2,800) made him bleed.
-He got hurt pretty bad in fair combat (read: not off guard) by Gohan, who even enraged was only at 2,800. One kick from Gohan left a huge bruise on him, with his head gashed open.
-He damn near crapped himself when he scanned Goku at 5,000. He's like, "OH SHIT! No no no... he's not 5,000... no freaking way!". I don't think that even a Nappa who was at 4,000 would be as completely helpless against Goku as that statement seemed to imply.
-Most importantly, he couldn't even see suppressed Goku (5,000) move. Shouldn't the gap between them be bigger for suppressed Goku to perform a feat like that? The gap between those two should probably be bigger than the gap between Krillin and Nappa, going purely by what we saw in the manga.

Now I'm not saying the Daizenshuu number is wrong or anything- I'm just saying that, if I was writing it, I'd probably only place him at 3,200 or so.

Note that Nappa explicitly can't change his power, so it's full power Nappa doing all this.

[TheGmGoken]

I think he's just fine to be honest. Anything below 4k would make him to weak as his BP would be close to Raditz. Something which isn't something to brag about.

-Krillin, at <2,000, made him look like a fool in their brief fight, kicking him away, easily dodging his punch, cutting his cheek, and dodging his blast.

Nappa has raw power over Krillin. But at this time where power wasn't 100% focus. Krillin was much more skilld than Nappa. Nappa was just beating everyone down with his power. But when good old Krillin used some skill Nappa got beat. Kiezen is one of those attacks that even when they're stronger the attack itself is useful. In fact Krillin could had killed Freeza.

-One punch from Piccolo (implied to be <2,800) made him bleed.

Daizenshuu said Piccolo wasn't that much weaker.

He got hurt pretty bad in fair combat (read: not off guard) by Gohan, who even enraged was only at 2,800. One kick from Gohan left a huge bruise on him, with his head gashed open.

Gohan was 70% of Nappa. I'm sure he could do some damage.

I don't think that even a Nappa who was at 4,000 would be as completely helpless against Goku as that statement seemed to imply.

Goku went from 334(I think) to 5000. I would be scarred too. Also his power level was higher than Nappa's. So Nappa would shit himself. Someone is stronger than him is coming to kill him

Shouldn't the gap between them be bigger for suppressed Goku to perform a feat like that?

Vegeta didn't see Kaioken x2 Goku move at first. I'll say Goku just got rabbit feat.

Note that Nappa explicitly can't change his power, so it's full power Nappa doing all this.

I always thought(And still think) Nappa yellow sparking attack raises his power a bit. When he used it Goku said he was doing better and that it could take awhile. He also broke Tien's arm off with it.

p.s: why didn't I just quote the whole message -_-.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think that Nappa is underrated. While Nappa was initially hopeless against Goku, after he calmed down, he managed to fight evenly with Goku, to the point that Goku said that it would take forever to beat him. However, Nappa seems to have a strange aura during the 2nd round, so maybe he is using an amplification technique to increase his power. Either way, judging from the 2nd round of their fight, there is no way for Nappa to be at 4.000. He should be between 7.600 & 8.000 IMO.

[TheGmGoken]

I think that Nappa is underrated. While Nappa was initially hopeless against Goku, after he calmed down, he managed to fight evenly with Goku, to the point that Goku said that it would take forever to beat him. However, Nappa seems to have a strange aura during the 2nd round, so maybe he is using an amplification technique to increase his power. Either way, judging from the 2nd round of their fight, there is no way for Nappa to be at 4.000. He should be between 7.600 & 8.000 IMO.

I have the yellow sparking aura as a power boast as well. I see no reason why not. I mean he could have basic ki control.

[hleV]

Piccolo was 3,500. While Gohan's rage boost did boost him to an extent where Piccolo would be suprised, it doesn't mean that Gohan surpassed him.

[RandomGuy96]

I have the yellow sparking aura as a power boast as well. I see no reason why not. I mean he could have basic ki control.

Reason: no one else seems to know this technique, despite it being like the most useful technique one could possibly have. It'd make Nappa one of the most skilled fighters in the entire series. He wouldn't teach it to Vegeta for no reason. No official source mentions this "technique" as being something that exists.

[TheGmGoken]

I have the yellow sparking aura as a power boast as well. I see no reason why not. I mean he could have basic ki control.

Reason: no one else seems to know this technique, despite it being like the most useful technique one could possibly have. It'd make Nappa one of the most skilled fighters in the entire series. He wouldn't teach it to Vegeta for no reason. No official source mentions this "technique" as being something that exists.

Okay no one else knows the attack. So? No one else knows the Kaioken despite being on the most useful attacks ever( I seriously doubt every villain needed 50x to beat). How would it make him skilled? He just boast his power. He didn't teach Vegeta anything. Vegeta is stronger than him even with that attack. No official source gives a clear definition of ki as well. Hence why we had 4 topics about ki and how it works. I see no reason why this could have been a mystery as well. It also the only logically way for Nappa to fight almost equal to Goku. If he was a 4,000 and fought even with Goku than Nappa with 5000 would fuck Goku up badly.

[Son Edo]

Nappa should be 8,000.

Strongest elite besides King Vegeta and Vegeta.

[RandomGuy96]

It also the only logically way for Nappa to fight almost equal to Goku. If he was a 4,000 and fought even with Goku than Nappa with 5000 would fuck Goku up badly.

Nappa never fought evenly with Goku.

[TheGmGoken]

It also the only logically way for Nappa to fight almost equal to Goku. If he was a 4,000 and fought even with Goku than Nappa with 5000 would fuck Goku up badly.

Nappa never fought evenly with Goku. Krillin did far better against Nappa than Nappa did against Goku.

Goku said he was doing better and it'll take all day to beat Nappa. I call that fighting evenly. COmpared to Krillin getting two shot by Nappa

[RandomGuy96]

He never even laid a finger on Goku and got his ultimate attack bounced away at point blank. Al he could do was just stare in awe after that.

Krillin was able to actually hit Nappa, and dodged him twice with more ease than Nappa dodged Goku once.

[TheGmGoken]

He never even laid a finger on Goku and got his ultimate attack bounced away at point blank. He could just stare in awe after that.

Krillin was able to actually hit Nappa, and dodged him twice with more ease than Nappa dodged Goku once.

Yes Nappa was in awe. I understand that. But for a brief period he was fighting evenly. Notice Goku's comments. It could take all day. I don't think a non equal fight could take all day. Krillin vs Nappa ended fast with Nappa two shooting Krillin. Goku said ALL DAY. Krillin was like what 1 minute?

[RandomGuy96]

If your enemy smacks you around and you never lay a finger on them in turn, I don't think you're fighting evenly at all.

All that says is that Nappa will take a while to keep down. Which says something about his durability, not his power.

[TheGmGoken]

If your enemy smacks you around and you never lay a finger on them in turn, I don't think you're fighting evenly at all.

All that says is that Nappa will take a while to keep down. Which says something about his durability, not his power.

"That was much better"
"That made me sweat"

^ Power statements. His durability have nothing to do with him doing better.

(I'll continue this later. Going to bed. Nice debate so far through )

[DBZGTKOSDH]

In the 2nd round, while Nappa couldn't touch Goku, Goku also couldn't touch Nappa.

Spoiler:

Chapter: 226 (DBZ 32), P7.4/P8.1-4
Context: after Goku deflects Nappa's mouth blast
Vegeta: “Unbelievable!! To instantly deflect it at that short of a distance!”
Goku: “Phew. If I had taken that one head on, I’d have been in trouble!!”
Nappa: It…It can’t be!!! That was my…my best technique!!! He…He just bounced it off!!”
Goku: “He really is a tough bastard! Even though he should have been hurt a little bit by my Kamehameha!! At this rate this looks like it will take forever...”

If this isn't an even fight, then what is it?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Just seems funny that Vegeta would think someone as "weaK" as Nappa would do so much better against someone twice as strong as him once he calmed down. I know Vegeta eventually told Nappa to stop wasting time, but still. I don't really have an issue with the 4,000 Battle Power, but anything less would be silly. Just from a story standpoint, I can see him around 6-7,000 at the most. Goku still ends up being stronger and would eventually defeat him after a prolonged battle, like the story suggests.

[Nazi Cola]

Piccolo was 3,500. While Gohan's rage boost did boost him to an extent where Piccolo would be suprised, it doesn't mean that Gohan surpassed him.

Piccolo was talking about Gohan's rage boosted power when he made that comment, wasn't he? Gohan was in fact fueled by rage when he fired his Masenko, wasn't he? Wouldn't that point to Gohan's Masenko being superior to Piccolo, at least?

[FoolsGil]

At 4000, Piccolo could've taken Nappa alone, not have the mess that ended with only Krillin and Gohan alive. And at 4000, Goku could've no selled Nappa, and not even use Kaioken to stop him from killing Gohan and Krillin. If anything, Nappa is far higher.

[Kaboom]

Nappa's best feat in that whole fight was dodging one kick. Compare that to everything Goku did to Nappa. Once he calmed down and focused, Nappa could admirably at least see Goku move, but he never stopped being Goku's plaything.

Goku needing the Kaio-Ken for a speed boost doesn't mean Nappa's as fast or almost as fast as him. If Goku is twice as fast as Nappa, but Nappa is already halfway to Gohan and Kuririn, then Goku and Nappa would reach them at the same time. Which isn't good enough, especially since Nappa was about to fire his mouth blast attack before he actually reached them. That's why Goku needed to use the Kaio-Ken to gain more speed: to catch Nappa BEFORE he could do something, not AS he did something.

[Dr. Machismo]

Nappa's best feat in that whole fight was dodging one kick. Compare that to everything Goku did to Nappa. Once he calmed down and focused, Nappa could admirably at least see Goku move, but he never stopped being Goku's plaything.

Nappa's mouth blast was evenly as strong as Goku's Kamehameha and made Goku sweat.