Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
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Super Saiyan Turlast x4
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Even when considered the earthlings feats, it was clear he was far more powerful than any of them. He knocked Piccolo out with an elbow and the explosion of his Chi-attack was enough to take Krillin out pretty fast. Gohan's kick was impressive, but his most powerful attack was swatted away regardless. There's also Goku stating he'd have "been in trouble" if Nappa's attack hit him. It'd make even less sense if Nappa isn't even half as strong as Goku.
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
I'm going to take this opportunity to once again pimp the never-printed-again 4500 number for Nappa from an old Movie 3 mini-guide. How do y'all feel about that one? Would that small but vital boost putting him a little over half of Goku's power instead of a little under it make any personal difference?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Still not enough to explain Goku's & Nappa's even fight.Kaboom wrote:I'm going to take this opportunity to once again pimp the never-printed-again 4500 number for Nappa from an old Movie 3 mini-guide. How do y'all feel about that one? Would that small but vital boost putting him a little over half of Goku's power instead of a little under it make any personal difference?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Piccolo being beaten so bad doesn't make much sense. Couldn't he just have use the special beam cannon to raise his power level higher than Nappa's and beat him that way?
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
You can say the same for Krillin. Solar Flare and Kienzen. Through they should use it they don't.Yin Yang wrote:Piccolo being beaten so bad doesn't make much sense. Couldn't he just have use the special beam cannon to raise his power level higher than Nappa's and beat him that way?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Just because someone goes blind from a Tayo-ken doesn't mean that he is an easy target for a Kienzan.
And I doubt that Nappa would let Piccolo charge a Makankosappo. Even if he did, Vegeta would notice the power increase and would make Nappa wake up. Not to mention that Nappa could just dodge it, like Raditz did.
And I doubt that Nappa would let Piccolo charge a Makankosappo. Even if he did, Vegeta would notice the power increase and would make Nappa wake up. Not to mention that Nappa could just dodge it, like Raditz did.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
What you mean easy target? Would't they be holding their eyes?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Just because someone goes blind from a Tayo-ken doesn't mean that he is an easy target for a Kienzan.
And I doubt that Nappa would let Piccolo charge a Makankosappo. Even if he did, Vegeta would notice the power increase and would make Nappa wake up. Not to mention that Nappa could just dodge it, like Raditz did.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Holding their eyes doesn't make them unable to move, or unable to hear the Kienzan coming. Remember when Goku got blind in GT?TheGmGoken wrote:What you mean easy target? Would't they be holding their eyes?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
That's different. That wasn't Tayioken. So far everytime we've seen Taiyoken before they don't move as they hold their eyes and just sit there. In fact when 50% Cell(Semi Perfect) did it they didn;t move for awhile then they started attacking while still blind.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Holding their eyes doesn't make them unable to move, or unable to hear the Kienzan coming. Remember when Goku got blind in GT?TheGmGoken wrote:What you mean easy target? Would't they be holding their eyes?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
The didn't move because they didn't have to move. If a Kienzan was coming to slice them, you really think that they would stay there and get it?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
I don't know, If Krillin blinded him, and then used the rapid fire Kienzan that he used against Freeza, I can't see Nappa getting out of that.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The didn't move because they didn't have to move. If a Kienzan was coming to slice them, you really think that they would stay there and get it?
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
How would they know it's coming? Going by if they cant sense. Plus can't Krillin make more than 1?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The didn't move because they didn't have to move. If a Kienzan was coming to slice them, you really think that they would stay there and get it?
Last edited by TheGmGoken on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Except that Kuririn could barely do one Kienzan at that point.Kamiccolo9 wrote:I don't know, If Krillin blinded him, and then used the rapid fire Kienzan that he used against Freeza, I can't see Nappa getting out of that.
Kienzan makes a sound, so someone like Nappa should be able to dodge it.TheGmGoken wrote:How would they know it's coming? Going by if they can sense.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
But he wasn;t going to dodge it when he SAW it coming. What makes you think he's going to dodge it when he CANT see it comingDBZGTKOSDH wrote:Except that Kuririn could barely do one Kienzan at that point.Kamiccolo9 wrote:I don't know, If Krillin blinded him, and then used the rapid fire Kienzan that he used against Freeza, I can't see Nappa getting out of that.
Kienzan makes a sound, so someone like Nappa should be able to dodge it.TheGmGoken wrote:How would they know it's coming? Going by if they can sense.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
That would be because he was stupid. Against someone like Freeza though, it wouldn't work.TheGmGoken wrote:But he wasn;t going to dodge it when he SAW it coming. What makes you think he's going to dodge it when he CANT see it coming
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:That would be because he was stupid. Against someone like Freeza though, it wouldn't work.TheGmGoken wrote:But he wasn;t going to dodge it when he SAW it coming. What makes you think he's going to dodge it when he CANT see it coming
But you said Nappa. Well depends. Had Krillin surprised Freeza and did Taiyoken first then a Kiezen then Freeza would't dodge. If this is after Krillin to his tail then yes Freeza would try to dodge. But Krillin can surround him in Kiezen's.Nappa should be able to dodge it.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Yes, Nappa should be able to dodge it, but probably won't if he is alone because he is dump.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
That was what I was talking about. Nappa would't dodge.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Yes, Nappa should be able to dodge it, but probably won't if he is alone because he is dump.
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ZombieVito
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Not to mention Vegeta's confidence that Nappa (if he calmed down) could beat Goku. So NOPE that 4000 BP still doesn't make sense.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Still not enough to explain Goku's & Nappa's even fight.Kaboom wrote:I'm going to take this opportunity to once again pimp the never-printed-again 4500 number for Nappa from an old Movie 3 mini-guide. How do y'all feel about that one? Would that small but vital boost putting him a little over half of Goku's power instead of a little under it make any personal difference?
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Insertclevername
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Re: Did the Daizenshuu overrate Nappa?
Okay, I gotta ask; what was so "even" about their fight? I'm flipping through my manga volume and all I'm seeing is Gokuu constantly one-up Nappa at every turn. Nappa never landed a single hit on him. The only time he ever comes close to hurting Gokuu was with the explosion technique, his fury of punches and his mouth cannon; all of which fail in actually hurting Gokuu. I guess the his barrage of physical attacks make them look on par but that's one panel and Gokuu doesn't really look like he's taking this fight that seriously before Nappa threatens Kuririn & Gohan. All he's doing is just dodging his attacks after Vegeta tells him to calm down. Even before he gets Kaio-Ken'd, Nappa is pretty beat up whereas Gokuu is perfectly unharmed; only sweated once since he was surprised by Nappa's mouth cannon.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Still not enough to explain Goku's & Nappa's even fight.Kaboom wrote:I'm going to take this opportunity to once again pimp the never-printed-again 4500 number for Nappa from an old Movie 3 mini-guide. How do y'all feel about that one? Would that small but vital boost putting him a little over half of Goku's power instead of a little under it make any personal difference?
Who's to say that Saiyan's can have unreasonable expectations and confidence in their men. I mean, Nappa was able to pull off some surprises in his fight with Gokuu. It wouldn't be that crazy to imagine he could possibly pull off some victory. Slim chance? Yes. Impossible? It's up in the air.Zombie wrote: Not to mention Vegeta's confidence that Nappa (if he calmed down) could beat Goku. So NOPE that 4000 BP still doesn't make sense.
These fights aren't just comparing numbers and calling it a day. There's a lot more to consider in a fight other than someone's battle power. Techniques. Ingenuity. Attitude. Wang size.
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