Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Son Edo
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Son Edo » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:18 pm

Tyro wrote:I know Kanzenshuu's battle power guide lists Goku's Kamehameha as 924 and rising, but I feel that this is not technically correct. Raditz's statement is that it was rising and got to 924, but he never says it kept going. It's true that Goku spent more time in the air after that when Raditz took notice of Piccolo charging his slightly more powerful Makankosappo, but I guess I'm just trying to be politically correct.

I debated Chibi Mystic Gohan about this way back in the day and took the exact opposite side, but maybe he left his mark on me, eh? So while I believe that Goku's Kamehameha did surpass 924, I think it would be more correct to say "Son Goku, while charging the Kamehameha: 924" just like it says for Piccolo directly below. In fact, I think it's wrong to say "Goku, firing a Kamehameha: 924 and rising."
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Viz has it saying "924 and still going up", and the anime says it's still rising aswell, I think Raditz even says it in Kai too.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:20 pm

Herms quote doesn't mention rising after 924 even though the kanzentai guide says 924 and rising.
Chapter: 201 (DBZ 7), P6.2-3
Context: said as Goku charges up the Kamehameha.
Raditz: “Impossible!!! His battle power is rising!!! Battle power 924...!!!”
Raditz: “He…He can raise his battle power by concentrating it into a single point!!!”
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Son Edo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:47 pm

Yeah, whats doing?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Malik_DBNA » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:03 pm

Saiyan Zenkai Formula

Saiyans possess the most potential in the series, as is obvious. The reason for this is Zenkai. Now, contrary to popular belief, Zenkai does not occur when a saiyan trains. The power boost a Saiyan receives from training is much less than the boost received from recovering from near fatal injuries. That's the key point. Zenkai ONLY occurs when a Saiyan recovers from near fatal injuries, and will not occur (oddly) if a Saiyan inflicts mortal injuries to themselves (this is confirmed by Vegeta in the Manga).

Now, Zenkai boosts followed a pretty standard formula up to the Freeza Saga, where the formula flew out the window to compensate for Freeza's overwhelming power (it is stated that in rare/ special cases, a Zenkai boost could exceed the traditional multiplier, but these are few, far between, and rarely occur).

Based on my research of Goku's strength from Dragon Ball up to the Freeza Saga, as well as the increases in Vegeta's power over the course of his time on Namek (this is the clearest example), this is the equation for determining a Zenkai boost for a typical Saiyan:

The Saiyan's Base Full Power number x 33. Then divide that number by 100.

The result is the amount of power the Saiyan receives for it's Zenkai.

The typical Saiyan (and half-Saiyan) will receive a 33% power boost from a Zenkai. This is clearly evidenced by Vegeta over the course of his portrayal on Namek. On Earth, Vegeta was stated to have a maximum power of 18,000 (this is not the number of his Galick Gun Blast, which approaches 24,000). After the Battle, Vegeta's power increased by around 6,000 to a reading of 24,000 (evidenced by Dodoria's Scouter). Following his beating by Zarbon, then during his battle with Recoome, Vegeta had a PL of 32,000 (sometimes read as 30,000), meaning his power had increased by 8,000, which is just over 33% of 24,000.

Freeza's Race Form Multipliers

The Reitoujin (my name for Freeza's race, literally meaning "Frozen Person") were the most difficult to determine multipliers for, simply because a number is never given for Freeza's 3rd Form. Through the manga and Daizenshuu, I was finally able to come up with solid multipliers for the Reitoujin race's forms:

1st Form = User's Base Form Full Power

2nd Form = 2.5 x User's Base Form Full Power

3rd Form = 5 x 2nd Form Power Level

4th Form = 18 x 3rd Form Power Level

5th Form (Cooler Transformation) = 4 x 4th Form Power Level


Namekian Fusion abilities

Based on my calculation that Piccolo's power upon arriving on Namek was around 70,000, but then barely surpasses Freeza's second form (which, based on my Reitoujin Multipliers, has a PL of around 1,325,000), this is the formula for equating Namekian Fusion:

Namekian's current base full power x 20

Human Fighter/ Namek Powers

As shown by Raditz, the average human possesses a PL of about 5, give or take a few degrees. Though there are Special cases (Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Kuririn), a normal human receiving no training from Gods like Kami or Kaio-Sama, but INTENSELY training over the course of several years, will never exceed a PL of 300. Nameks, conversely, seem to maximize around the 3000 range unless they continuously train.

Training with a Kami increased (on average) the power levels of the training fighters by a factor of 7 (Tenshinhan's power increased from 250 to 1830 over the course of the year).

Goku, training with Kaio-Sama for 158 days (around 5 months), increased his power by almost a factor of 20, so it can be assumed that the earth fighter's powers increased by a similar factor during their time (around 9 months in Tenshinhan's case) with Kaio-Sama. Therefore, a human training with a God-like figure on a planet with 10x Gravity will increase by a factor of 4 every month they train there.

Piccolo, over the course of the year he trained to fight the Saiyans, increased his power by a factor of 8, slightly more than human fighters, but still enough to account for the higher training boost Nameks receive over humans (his power increases from 408 to 3500, while his held back power was 1400). If accounting for the training boost with Kaio-Sama (increase by a factor of 20), his power level when arriving on Namek would be around 70,000.

Fusion Power Formula

Based on what I could see in the manga and such, Fusion makes the resulting Fused Warrior far stronger than the sum of its parts. In this case, this was the formula I used for determining Metamoran Fusion Warrior Power:

Fusion Material Warrior 1's current power + Fusion Material Warrior 2's current power = X, then multiply this number by 50.

The Power Level rule

Contrary to popular opinion, a higher power level does not guarantee victory (this is evidenced by Goku's early battles with Piccolo, when the margin between their respective powers was small. Though Piccolo was slightly weaker than Goku, he nearly defeated Goku).

Instead, the determining factor in determining if one power can defeat another is the % Difference between 2 powers.

For example, when comparing Goku and Piccolo at the start of Z, there is barely a 1% difference between their powers, which accounts for their close battles. However, when Nail (40,000) fights Freeza (530,000), there is a 92% difference between their powers. Also, in the fight between Recoome (40,000) and Vegeta (30,000), there is a 25% difference between their powers. During the (semi-even) fight between Goku (8000) and Nappa (7000), there was a 12% difference between them, and Goku maintained an advantage, then between Goku using Kaio-Ken x 2 (16000) and Vegeta (18000), there is an 11% difference between them, and Vegeta has a slight advantage. When Goku uses Kaio-Ken x 3 (24000), he gains a 25% difference between his and Vegeta's power, giving him the advantage.

Based on the calculations, up to a 5% difference will allow both fighters to fight on virtually even terms. 6-9% will give the stronger fighter a slight advantage. At 10% and up, the stronger fighter will dominate the fight. Above 25%, the weaker fighter has no chance of defeating the stronger fighter.

In order to determine the % Difference between two fighters, this is the formula:

Note: Fighter 1 full power (stronger fighter) = X. Fighter 2 full power (weaker fighter) = Y.

Step 1). X - Y = Z

Step 2). Z / X = W

Step 3). W x 100

example, Recoome vs Vegeta: 40,000 - 30,000 = 10,000. 10,000 / 40,000 = .25. .25 x 100 = 25%

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:06 pm

Malik_DBNA wrote:Saiyan Zenkai Formula
Zenkai ONLY occurs when a Saiyan recovers from near fatal injuries, and will not occur (oddly) if a Saiyan inflicts mortal injuries to themselves (this is confirmed by Vegeta in the Manga).
Goku gave himself Zenkais by Kamehamehaing himself on the way to Namek.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Malik_DBNA » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:09 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Malik_DBNA wrote:Saiyan Zenkai Formula
Zenkai ONLY occurs when a Saiyan recovers from near fatal injuries, and will not occur (oddly) if a Saiyan inflicts mortal injuries to themselves (this is confirmed by Vegeta in the Manga).
Goku gave himself Zenkais by Kamehamehaing himself on the way to Namek.
Then Vegeta likely contradicts himself (not uncommon in the manga). When Vegeta told Kuririn to beat him almost to death, he shouts "it won't work if I do it to myself"

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:11 pm

Malik_DBNA wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Malik_DBNA wrote:Saiyan Zenkai Formula
Zenkai ONLY occurs when a Saiyan recovers from near fatal injuries, and will not occur (oddly) if a Saiyan inflicts mortal injuries to themselves (this is confirmed by Vegeta in the Manga).
Goku gave himself Zenkais by Kamehamehaing himself on the way to Namek.
Then Vegeta likely contradicts himself (not uncommon in the manga). When Vegeta told Kuririn to beat him almost to death, he shouts "it won't work if I do it to myself"
Yeah, maybe it just means that Vegeta couldn't injure himself badly enough, or something? Although Ginyu punches a hole in his own chest earlier, so I don't see why Vegeta couldn't do the same.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Draken » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:05 pm

Maybe it's because Goku wasn't doing it on purpose? I mean his main reason for the Kamehameha's was to train, not to injure himself for a free zenkai.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:56 pm

Draken wrote:Maybe it's because Goku wasn't doing it on purpose? I mean his main reason for the Kamehameha's was to train, not to injure himself for a free zenkai.
Surely he would have noticed himself getting many times stronger after he healed though. He can't be that stupid. Can he?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:53 am

Not a fan of exact formulas. There should never be an exact formula where Fighter A has to be X% of Fighter B to perform (feat). That just defies how the series works, really.

And your Freeza multipliers... well, they shouldn't really exist, except for Cooler's fifth form. They're just unnatural suppressions. And the third form being THAT much stronger than the second form? That seems unnecessary and doesn't fit Vegeta's implied superiority over third form Freeza.

And shouldn't the humans get larger gains than Goku did on King Kai's planet, since they were there longer, asked for harder training, didn't have to waste time learning new techniques, and had sparring partners, which is one of the most effective methods of training?

Also, I significantly altered my Buu Saga levels... again. I chose to go by feats, including SS Gotenks hurting Buu with physical attacks. As a result, the fused SS3 multiplier is rather small. But I like it this way, because I can have South Kaioshin being pure addition and go with the Daizenshuu line implying Full Power Fat Buu = Super Buu. So for me, Buff Buu's BP - Dai Kaioshin's BP = Fat Buu's BP (Full Power) = Super Buu's BP. Good Buu's BP + Evil Buu's BP = Super Buu's BP.

Fat Buu-
--Initial- 6,00,000,000
--Power Up 1- 9,000,000,000
--Power Up 2- 11,000,000,000
--Splitting up- 60,000,000,000
Evil Buu- 40,000,000,000
Good Buu- 20,000,000,000

Super Buu- 60,000,000,000
--Piccolo absorbed- 61,000,000,000
--Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed- 66,000,000,000
--Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed- 133,000,000,000
--Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed- 166,000,000,000

Hypothetical Gogeta
--Super Saiyan 3- 121,500,000,0000

Ultimate Gohan- 100,000,000,000

Gotenks (post-ROSAT)-
--Super Saiyan- 48,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 72,000,000,000

Goku- 81,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 32,400,000,000

Mr.Buu- 30,000,000,000

Vegeta- 81,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 8,100,000,000

Kid Buu- 36,000,000,000
--South Kaioshin absorbed (flashback)- 63,000,000,000

South Kaioshin- 27,000,000,000
West Kaioshin- 4,000,000,00
Grand Kaioshin- 3,000,000,000
North Kaioshin- 2,500,000,000
East Kaioshin- 2,000,000,000
Old Kai- 30,000,000
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Son Edo » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:30 am

Gotenks should be higher.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:35 pm

Battle Power Guide

Dragon Ball Power Levels

The Pilaf Arc

The Journey Begins
Goku: 10
Bulma: 4
Umigame: 0.001
Muten Roshi(Heavily Suppressed): 39
Oolong: 3
Yamcha: 7
Puar: 2
Ox King: 64
Chi Chi: 8

Emperor Piaf
Pilaf: 2
Shuu: 3.2
Mai: 5
Oozaru Goku: 100

Training with Master Roshi
Goku: 11
Krillin: 5
Launch(Blue): 4
Launch(Blonde): 6.5
Master Roshi(Suppressed): 80

The 21st Tenkaichi Budokai
Goku: 80
Krillin: 72
Yamcha: 60
Nam: 75
Girin: 78
Bacterian: 11
Ranfan: 6
Jackie Chun(Suppressed): 80
Oozaru Goku: 800
Jackie Chun(Max Power): 180
-Kamehameha: 200

The Red Ribbon Arc

Muscle Tower
Goku: 88
Colonel Silver: 15
Major Metallitron: 80
Ninja Murasaki: 18
Android 8: 100
Buyon: 83
Colonel White: 8
Krillin: 78
General Blue: 85

Karin Tower
Bora: 40
Tao Pai Pai: 110
Karin: 190
Goku(Post Karin Training): 130
General Black: 16

The Witch Baba
Krillin: 86
Fang: 82
Yamcha: 72
Invisible Man: 30
Mummy Man: 90
Akuman: 108
Grandpa Gohan: 130

The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
Goku: 180
Krillin: 140
Yamcha: 132
Jackie Chun: 139
Krane Hermit: 120
Tenshinhan: 180
Chaozu: 136
King Chappa: 90
Pamput: 9

Demon King Piccolo Arc

Piccolo's Demon offspring
Goku(Fatigued): 96
Tambourine: 166
Yajirobe: 173
Cymbal: 160
King Piccolo(Old): 200
Master Roshi: 180

Piccolo's Defeat
Goku(Post Super God Water Power Up): 260
Drum: 200
King Piccolo: 260
Mr Popo: 300
Kami: 360

The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
Goku(W/ Weights/Suppressed): 280
Tenshinhan: 280
Krillin: 236
Yamcha: 204
Chaozu: 163
Cyborg Tao: 210
Chi Chi: 130
Kami: 360
Goku(W/ Out Weights/Suppressed): 300
Piccolo: 372
Goku(Even Less Suppressed): 375
Giant Piccolo: 546
Goku: 396
Giant Piccolo(Even Bigger): 637

Dragon Ball Z Power Levels

Saiyajin Arc

A Final Solitary Battle
Bardock: 9,800
Kakarotto: 2
Selypa: 1,000
Tatapo: 1,800
Pambukin: 1,320
Toma: 2,800
Dodoria: 20,000
Freeza Soldier(Elite): 3,000
Zarbon: 21,000
Freeza: 530,000
King Vegeta: 13,000
Vegeta(Kid): 12,000
Nappa: 3,600

Episode of Bardock
Bardock: 9,800
Zarbon: 21,000
Dodoria: 20,000
Freeza: 530,000
Bardock(Zenkai): 22,050
Berry: 2
Chilled: 320,000
SSJ Bardock: 1,102,500

Return My Gohan!!
Piccolo(W/ Weights): 312
Gohan: 2
Chi Chi: 100
Goku(W/ Weights): 324
Ginger: 140
Full Power Ginger: 210
Nicky: 150
Full Power Nicky: 225
Sancho: 160
Full Power Sancho: 240
Kami: 320
Garlic Jr: 350
Full Power Garlic Jr: 525
Krillin: 206
Goku: 403
Piccolo: 395
Gohan(Angry): 1,370

Goku’s Brother!?
Gohan: 2
Piccolo(W/ Weights): 322
Piccolo: 408
-Mankankosappo: 1,440
Goku(W/ Weights): 334
Goku: 416
-Kamehameha: 924
Raditz: 1,500
Gohan(Angry): 1,307

1 Year!
Master Roshi: 139
Krillin: 206
Tenshinhan: 250
Yamcha: 177
Piccolo(W/ Weights): 329
King Yema: 2,000
Kami: 320
Kaio Sama: 3,500

The World’s Strongest Guy
Piccolo(W/ Weights): 2,300
Muten Roshi: 139
Goku: 8,000
Misokatsun: 5,400
Goku(Kaioken x2): 16,000
Ebifurya: 6,800
Kishime: 4,300
Gohan: 2,800
Krillin: 1,770
Goku(Kaioken x3): 24,000
Piccolo(Mind Controlled): 7,000
Gohan(Enraged): 5,600
Dr Wheelo: 30,000
Goku(Kaioken x4): 32,000
Piccolo: 3,500
-Genki Dama: 50,000

The Saiyajin Arrive
Piccolo: 1,220-3,500
Yamcha: 1,480
Krillin: 1,083-1,770
Tenshinhan: 1,830
Gohan: 981-2,800
Yajirobe: 970
Chaozu: 610
-Self-Destruct: 1,830
Mr Popo: 1,030
Saibamen: 1,200
Nappa: 4,000
Vegeta: 18,000
Goku: 8,000
Goku(Kaioken): 12,000
Goku(Kaioken x2): 16,000
Goku(Kaioken x3): 24,000
-Kaioken x3 Kamehameha: 24,000
-Gyarikku Ho: 24,000
-Kaioken x4 Kamehameha: 32,000
Vegeta(Injured): 10,000
Oozaru Vegeta: 100,000
Vegeta(More Injured): 6,000
-Genki Dama: 5,000
Vegeta(Severely injured): 2,000
Oozaru Gohan: 9,810
Vegeta(Crippled): 100

A Super Decisive Battle for Earth
Gohan: 10,000
Krillin: 5,000
Goku: 34,000
Yamcha: 4,600
Tenshinhan: 7,000
Chaozu: 1,000
Razun: 7,500
Lakasei: 7,500
Amond: 13,000
Cacao: 8,700
Daiz: 14,000
Tullece: 36,000
Piccolo(W/ Weights): 18,000
Oozaru Gohan: 100,000
Piccolo: 23,000
Goku(Kaioken x2): 68,000
Tullece(Fruit Consumed): 432,000
Goku(Kaioken x10): 340,000
Tullece(More Fruit Consumed): 864,000
-First Genki Dama: 500,000
-Seond Genki Dama: 1,000,000

Namek Arc

Lest go to Namek!
Krillin: 1,800
Gohan: 1,500
Warrior Namekians: 3,000-10,000
Zarbon: 21,000
Dodoria: 20,000
Freeza: 530,000
Cui: 18,000
Vegeta(Zenkai): 24,000
Zarbon(Transformed): 28,000
Vegeta(Zenkai): 30,000
Krillin(Potential Unlocked): 13,000+(Still taking effect)
Gohan(Potential Unlocked): 14,000+(Still taking effect)

Ginyu Tokusentai
Guldo: 8,000
Recoom: 37,000
-Final Crash: 36,000
-Eraser Gun: 42,000
Burter: 40,000
Jeice: 40,000
Goku: 90,000
Ginyu: 120,000
Goku(Kaioken x2): 180,000
Vegeta(Zenkai): 250,000
Nail: 42,000
Yamcha: 36,000
Tenshinhan: 43,000
Chaozu: 10,000
Piccolo: 30,000

Super Saiyajin Son Goku
Old Lord Slug: 50,000
Piccolo(W/ Weights): 23,000
Wings: 19,000
Gohan: 14,000
Metamatcha: 22,000
Angila: 28,000
Goku: 90,000
Krillin: 13,000
Lord Slug: 500,000
FSSJ Goku: 2,250,000
Giant Slug: 2,500,000
Goku(Fatigued): 80,000
Piccolo(Fatigued): 22,000
Goku(W/ Piccolo’s Energy): 100,000
Goku(Kaioken x100): 10,000,000
-Genki Dama: 10,000,000

Freeza Arc

The Mighty Freeza
Freeza: 530,000
Gohan: 100,000
Krillin: 75,000
Vegeta: 250,000
Freeza 2nd Form(Suppressed): 1,060,000
Gohan(Angry): 1,000,000
Gohan(Zenkai): 200,000
Piccolo(W/ Weights): 1,080,000
Freeza 2nd Form: 1,200,000
Piccolo: 1,260,000
Freeza 3rd form: 2,120,000
Gohan(Angry): 2,000,000
Freeza Final Form(Supressed): 2,800,000
Vegeta(Zenkai): 2,400,000
Goku(Zenkai): 3,000,000
Freeza 50%: 60,000,000
Goku(Kaioken x10): 30,000,000
-Kaioken x20 Kamehameha: 60,000,000
-Large Genki Dama: 75,000,000
SSJ Goku: 150,000,000
Freeza 100%: 120,000,000

Garlic Jr Retruns
Gohan: 230,000
Krillin: 82,000
Piccolo: 1,500,000
Zald: 280,000
Tard: 330,000
Vinegar: 380,000
Full Power Vinegar: 570,000
Gashew: 430,000
Full Power Gashew: 645,000
Garlic Jr: 800,000
Full Power Garlic Jr: 1,200,000
Full Power Piccolo: 2,250,000
Gohan(Enraged): 2,300,000

Freeza Returns
Mecha Freeza: 140,000,000
-Supernova: 170,000,000
King Cold: 100,000,000
Trunks: 3,600,000
SSJ Trunks: 180,000,000
Vegeta: 2,800,000
Piccolo: 1,800,000
Gohan: 220,000
Krillin: 90,000
Tenshinhan: 64,000
Chaozu: 12,000
Yamcha: 38,000
Goku: 3,700,000
SSJ Goku: 185,000,000

The Incredible Strongest vs Strongest
Goku: 3,600,000
Gohan: 240,000
Krillin: 90,000
Salza: 170,000
Neizu: 163,000
Dore: 185,000
Piccolo: 1,600,000
Goku(Zenkai): 4,000,000
Cooler(Suppressed): 3,800,000
Cooler(100%): 90,000,000
Cooler(Final Form): 180,000,000
Goku(Kaioken x20): 80,000,000
SSJ Goku: 200,000,000
-Supernova: 230,000,000
-Kamehameha: 250,000,000

Artificial Humans Arc

Defiance in the Face of Despair!!
Adult Gohan: 3,400,000
Kid Trunks: 1,400,000
SSJ Kid Trunks: 70,000,000
SSJ Adult Gohan: 170,000,000
Cyborg #17: 360,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Trunks: 2,800,000
SSJ Trunks: 140,000,000

The Artificial Humans Appear
Goku: 5,400,000
Gohan: 3,200,000
Krillin: 130,000
Tenshinhan: 104,000
Yamcha: 75,000
Cyborg #19: 90,000,000
Cyborg #20: 100,000,000
SSJ Goku(Heart Virus): 270,000,000-
Cyborg #19(Energy Absorbed): 180,000,000
Vegeta: 5,600,000
SSJ Vegeta: 280,000,000
SSJ Vegeta(Energy Taken): 240,000,000
Cyborg #19(More Energy Absorbed): 220,000,000
-Big Bang Attack: 300,000,000
Cyborg #20(Energy Absorbed): 145,000,000
Piccolo: 180,000,000
Trunks: 5,100,000
SSJ Trunks: 255,000,000
Cyborg #17: 360,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Kami: 220
Piccolo(Fused W/ Kami): 360,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 320,000,000

Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors
Goku: 5,400,000
Gohan: 3,200,000
Krillin: 130,000
Piccolo: 360,000,000
Yajirobe: 670
Muten Roshi: 139
Cyclopian Guards: 100,000
Meta Cooler: 250,000,000
Goku(Kaioken x10): 54,000,000
SSJ Goku: 270,000,000
Meta Cooler(Repaired): 500,000,000
Vegeta: 5,600,000
SSJ Vegeta: 280,000,000
SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta: 550,000,000
Cooler’s Remains: 200,000,000

Extreme Battle!! The Three Great Super Saiyajin
Goku: 5,400,000
Trunks: 5,100,000
Gohan: 3,200,000
Krillin: 130,000
Cyborg #14: 250,000,000
Cyborg #15: 275,000,000
Cyborg #13: 300,000,000
Vegeta: 5,600,000
SSJ Vegeta: 280,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 255,000,000
SSJ Goku: 270,000,000
Piccoolo: 360,000,000
Super C-13: 825,000,000
SSJ Goku(W/ Genki Dama Energy): 1,000,000,000

Cell Arc

The Room of Spirit and Time
Cyborg #17: 360,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Piccolo: 360,000,000
Piccolo(Tired): 300,000,000
-Light Grenade: 450,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 500,000,000
Cyborg #16: 500,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell(Suppressed): 660,000,000
Vegeta: 14,400,000
SSJ Vegeta: 720,000,000
SSJG2 Vegeta: 1,080,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell: 860,000,000
Trunks: 14,200,000
SSJ Trunks: 710,000,000
SSJG2 Trunks: 1,065,000,000
-Final Flash: 2,160,000,000
SSJG3 Trunks: 1,420,000,000
Perfect Cell(Suppressed): 1,210,000,000
Buff Perfect Cell(Suppressed): 1,815,000,000
RESSJ Goku: 532,000,000
RESSJ Gohan: 592,000,000
FPSSJ Goku(Half): 1,330,000,000

Burn Up!! A Red-Hot, Raging, Super-Fierce Fight
Goku: 26,600,000
Gohan: 11,840,000
Trunks: 14,200,000
Vegeta: 14,400,000
Paragus: 2,200
Broly: 36,000,000
RSSJ Broly: 180,000,000-900,000,000
SSJ Broly: 1,800,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 720,000,000
LSSJ Broly: 3,600,000,000
SSJ Goku: 1,330,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 592,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 710,000,000
Piccolo: 896,000,000
SSJG2 Vegeta: 1,080,000,000
SSJ Goku(W/ Friends Energy): 4,097,000,000

Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyajin
Goku: 26,600,000
Gohan: 11,840,000
Trunks: 14,200,000
Vegeta: 14,400,000
Piccolo: 896,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 720,000,000
SSJ Goku: 1,330,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 592,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 710,000,000
Hatchiyaku: 4,000,000,000
-Revenge Cannon: 6,000,000,000
-Final Masenmankankokamehame Attack: 6,616,000,000

The Cell Games
Vegeta: 36,000,000
Cyborg #16: 500,000,000
Trunks: 34,000,000
Piccolo: 900,000,000
Krillin: 150,000
Tenshinhan: 125,000
Yamcha: 90,000
Mr Satan: 12
RESSJ Goku: 540,000,000
RESSJ Gohan: 600,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 2,700,000,000
Perfect Cell(Suppressed Against Goku): 2,800,000,000
-Shunkan Idou Kamehameha: 3,450,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 3,000,000,000
Perfect Cell(Suppressed Against Gohan): 3,600,000,000
Cell Jr: 2,000,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 1,800,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 1,700,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 7,500,000,000
Perfect Cell: 4,500,000,000
Perfect Cell(Injured): 3,000,000,000
Buff Perfect Cell: 7,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 7,500,000,000
-Solar Kamehameha: 9,000,000,000
-Father-Son Kamehameha: 9,600,000,000

Back to the Future
Trunks: 34,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Cyborg #17: 360,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 1,700,000,000
Trunks(Post 3 Years): 42,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 2,100,000,000
Cell: 300,000,000

The Galaxy at the Brink!! The Super Incredible Guy
Gohan: 60,000,000
Trunks: 36,000,000
Tenshinhan: 150,000
Krillin: 180,000
Yamcha: 100,000
Piccolo: 960,000,000
Zangya: 2,100,000,000
Gokua: 1,000,000,000
Full Power Gokua: 1,500,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 1,800,000,000
Bujin: 2,300,000,000
Bido: 2,500,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 3,000,000,000
Bojack: 3,200,000,000
Vegeta: 36,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 1,800,000,000
Full Power Bojack: 4,800,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 7,500,000,000

Otherworld Tournament Arc

Old Enemies
Goku: 54,000,000
West Kaio: 3,000
Paikuhan(W/ Weights): 2,500,000,000
Dai-Kaio: 1,000,000,000
East Kaio: 3,200
South Kaio: 4,000
Guldo: 15,000
Recoome: 54,000
Jeice: 60,000
Burter: 60,000
Freeza(10%): 16,000,000
King Cold(10%): 13,000,000
Super Perfect Cell(Suppressed): 4,500,000,000
Paikuhan(Burning Shoot): 5,000,000,000

The Otherworld Tournament
Goku: 54,000,000
Olibu: 1,500,000,000
Paikuhan(W/ Weights): 2,500,000,000
Chapuchai: 1,000,000
Catapi: 100
Tapkar: 7,000
Torbi: 30,000,000
Frau: 4,000,000
Moraiako: 50,000,000
Agua(Out of Water): 30
Agua(In Water): 30,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 2,700,000,000
Paikuhan: 3,200,000,000
FPSSJ Goku(Super Kaioken): 5,400,000,000
-Thunder Flash: 4,800,000,000
-Shunkan Idou Kamehameha: 3,450,000,000

Great Saiyaman Arc

7 Years Later
Gohan: 56,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 2,800,000,000
Goten: 41,000,000
FPSSJ Goten: 2,050,000,000
Trunks: 43,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 2,150,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 3,150,000,000
Goku: 79,000,000
Videl: 9

Dangerous Duo! Super-Warriors Can’t Rest
Videl: 16
Goten: 41,600,000
Trunks: 43,600,000
Broly: 72,000,000
SSJ Broly: 3,600,000,000
FPSSJ Goten: 2,080,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 2,180,000,000
Gohan: 56,600,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,660,000,000
LSSJ Broly: 7,200,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 2,830,000,000
-Omega Blaster: 9,200,000,000
-Bros Kamehameha: 6,000,000,000
Goku: 79,600,000
FPSSJ Goku: 3,980,000,000
-Family Kamehameha: 10,960,000,000
-Omega Blaster(Max Power): 11,200,000,000
-Family Kamehameha(Max Power): 19,200,000,000

25th Tenkaichi Budokai
Goten: 42,000,000
FPSSJ Goten: 2,100,000,000
Trunks: 44,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 2,200,000,000
Mr Satan: 11
Gohan: 57,000,000
Piccolo: 1,200,000,0000
Goku: 80,000,000
Vegeta: 64,000,000
Krillin: 225,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Yamcha: 75,000
Kaioshin: 2,100,000,000
Kibito: 56,000,000
Spopobitchi: 30
Yamu: 28
Videl: 21
FPSSJ Gohan(Angry): 3,063,750,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,700,000,000

Majin Buu Arc

The Wizard Babidi
Pui Pui: 400,000
Yakon: 640,000,000
SSJ Goku: 2,400,000,000
Dabura: 2,800,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 2,850,000,000
Majin FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,000,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,000,000,000
Majin SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 8,000,000,000

Super-Warrior Defeat!! I’m the One Who’ll Win
Goten: 42,000,000
Trunks: 44,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Bio Broly: 72,000,000
LSSJ Bio Broly: 7,200,000,000
LSSJ Bio Broly(Infected): 2,400,000,000
FPSSJ Goten: 2,100,000,000
FPSSJ Goten(Angry): 2,800,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 2,200,000,000
Krillin: 225,000
Giant Bio Broly(Infected): 4,800,000,000
-Combined Kamehameha: 5,100,275,000

Majin Buu Awakens
Majin Buu: 12,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Angry): 18,000,000,000
-Final Explosion: 16,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Angrier): 24,000,000,000
Gotenks: 420,000,000
FPSSJ Gotenks: 21,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Angry to the Point of Splitting): 36,000,000,000
Pure Evil Buu: 27,000,000,000
Good Buu: 9,000,000,000
Evil Buu: 180,000,000,000

Fusion Arc

Fu-Sion-Ha!
Gohan(Post Z-Sword Training): 100,000,000
Goten: 56,000,000
Trunks: 58,000,000
Gotenks: 560,000,000
FPSSJ Gotenks: 28,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gotenks: 56,000,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 224,000,000,000
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
Buutenks: 405,200,000,000
Kibitoshin: 5,600,000,000
Buuhan: 481,314,000,000
Tenshinhan: 180,000
Vegetto: 64,000,000,000
FPSSJ Vegetto: 3,200,000,000,000

The Rebirth of Fusion!! Goku and Vegeta
Goku: 80,000,000
Paikuhan: 4,200,000,000
Janenba: 24,000,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,000,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 8,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
Super Janenba: 48,000,000,000
Gohan: 100,000,000
Freeza(10%): 20,000,000
Goten: 56,000,000
FPSSJ Goten: 2,800,000,000
Trunks: 58,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 2,900,000,000
Adolf Hitler: 5
Vegeta: 80,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
FPSSJ Gogeta: 320,000,000,000
FPSSJ Gotenks: 28,000,000,000

Kid Buu Returns!?
Kid Buu: 30,000,000,000
Western Kaioshin: 4,000,000,000
Northern Kaioshin: 3,000,0000,000
Southern Kaioshin: 7,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Southern Kaioshin Absorbed): 185,000,000,000
Eastern Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000
Dai-Kaioshin: 5,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
-Super Genki Dama: 35,000,000,000

Dragon Fist Explosion!! If Goku Won’t Do it, Who Will?
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
Videl: 21
Goku: 84,000,000
Goten: 57,000,000
Trunks: 59,000,000
Tapion: 1,000,000
Hirudegarn’s Lower Half: 110,000,000,000
Hirudegarn’s Upper Half: 110,000,000,000
Hirudegarn: 220,000,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 8,400,000,000
FPSSJ Goten: 2,850,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 2,950,000,000
Vegeta: 84,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,400,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 228,000,000,000
Hirudegarn(Post Skin Shed): 330,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 33,600,000,000
-Ryuken: 336,000,000,000

Heya!! Son Goku and his Friends Return
Goku: 88,000,000
Vegeta: 88,000,000
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
Piccolo: 1,440,000,000
Videl: 23
Goten: 58,000,000
Trunks: 60,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 270,000
Yamcha: 72,000
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
Mr Satan: 11
Kibitoshin: 5,600,000,000
Tarble: 180
Ava: 600,000
Kado: 600,000
Avakado: 360,000,000
Gotenks: 580,000,000
FPSSJ Gotenks: 29,000,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,400,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,400,000,000

The End

Battle of Gods
Goku: 96,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,800,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 9,600,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 38,400,000,000
SSJ God Goku(80%): 3,840,000,000,000
SSJ God Goku: 4,800,000,000,000
Goku(After Absorbing SSJ God's Powers): 4,608,000,000,000
Vegeta: 96,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,800,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta(Enraged): 48,000,000,000
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 5,000,000,000
Goten: 60,000,000
FPSSJ Goten: 3,000,000,000
Trunks: 62,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 3,100,000,000
Gotenks: 600,000,000
FPSSJ Gotenks: 30,000,000,000
Piccolo: 1,720,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 320,000
Tenshinhan: 250,000
Yamcha: 64,000
Videl: 25
Mr Satan: 10
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
Kibitoshin: 5,600,000,000
Birusu(70%): 4,900,000,000,000
Birusu: 7,000,000,000,000
Uisu: 12,000,000,000,000

10 Years Later
Goku: 125,000,000
Vegeta: 124,000,000
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
Goten: 63,000,000
Trunks: 65,000,000
Gohan: 300,000,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Krillin: 300,000
Piccolo: 2,400,000,000
Videl: 18
Mr Satan: 8
Pan: 40,000,000
Uub: 30,000,000,000

Power Increases

Oozaru: 10x base
Kaioken: This technique increases the users power level based on the number of times it is stacked. Standard Kaioken will raise the users power level by 1.5x.
FSSJ: 25x base
SSJ: 50x base. This form's multiplier becomes very flexible after mastering SSJ.
SSJG2: 1.5x SSJ
SSJG3: 2x SSJ, this form is incredibly slow so it is impractical in battle.
RESSJ: 10x base, this form is achieved after training yourself to maintain the SSJ form as if it were your base form.
LSSJ: 2x SSJ. This forms Ki constantly grows. This however can be a hinderence to the body. If the users body cannot handle the overflow of Ki, he must expel it from his body.
FPSSJ: 5x RESSJ
SSJ2: 2x SSJ or FPSSJ/100x base
SSJ3: 4x SSJ2/400x base
SSJ God: 50,000x base
Fusion Dance: Both power levels must be equal. A + B x 5. If the fusees are rivals the result is like multiplying the 2 power levels together.
Potara Earring fusion: A x 100. Divide the result by the difference between the original power levels. If the fusees are rivals, the result is like multiplying the 2 power levels together.
Zenkai: Zenkai's are special power ups Saiyan's receive after healing from near death injuries. In the Early parts of the series, Zenkai's shot up a persons power by a random number. These increases, however, became infinitesimally small or just straight up disappeared after the Saiyans learned how to turn into Super Saiyans. Broly, for some reason, seems to be the only exception to this rule.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:26 pm, edited 43 times in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:31 pm

Good list but:

- Kami can't be weaker than Tien. Not until 6 months after training with him.

- How can Freeza (530) struggle with Vegeta (250)?

- Where's second form Freeza second Power up?

- Wouldn't True Form Freeza need two PL @Vegeta? Vegeta was confident to beat him after all.

- So no amp for Goku's 20x Kaioken Kamehameha? Why?

- The gap between Piccolo and Vegeta in the Trunks saga needs to be smaller IMO.

- SSJ Trunsks >= SSJ Gohan (One arm) was stated.

- Android 20 > SSJ Vegeta after the BBT was stated.

- The Light Grenade that week of an amp?

- I think FPSSJ Gohan is too close to FPSSJ Goku.

- Yamu and Spopobitchi that weak? How they fly at super speed makes me think they are a bit stronger than that.

- Yakon has to be <= Goku. Gohan wanted to team up agaisnt him.

- Base Gotenks weaker than Piccolo?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:45 pm

I don't agree with anything you said. 250,000 for Vegeta is official. the Kamehameha doesn't factor a boost with Kaioken. That's implied by the Daizenshuu. I didn't factor Freeza's suppressed state before Piccolo's arrival because I felt it was ultimately pointless.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:27 pm

Sigh, don't know why I bothered.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:38 pm

Spopovich would've been killed by a normal human without a magic healing spell. I think if anything he's FAR too high.

Anyway, nitpicks: I hate hate hate hate HATE the 'rival boost' theory. It seems to miss the point of the scene entirely. Old Kai says that Goku and Vegeta are strong, and that's why their fusion was strong, comparing them to Kibito and Kaioshin. The rival comment was an ambiguous afterthought, and the line isn't even present in the official translation. Yet here, its pretty much the sole reason Vegetto and Gogeta are strong as they are. Gogeta wasn't even implied to get such a boost, and was implied many times to be weaker than Buuhan anyway, so... what?

Speaking of which, the Movie 13 levels are hilarious. Janemba as strong as Buuhan? SS Gogeta randomly over a hundred times stronger than SS Gotenks?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:43 pm

You hate the rival boost theory because it puts Gogeta over your favorite character :lol: . Again though, Buuhan is assuming he's more than a match for them based on how powerful Gotenks was. Buuhan himself wouldn't even consider a rival boost so it works. Buuhan is also an arrogant villain. He's still telling himself he can win when he's getting his face bashed in by Vegetto. Trust me, I would put Janenba lower if Toei didn't state he was stronger than Hirudegarn :problem: .
Zombie wrote:Sigh, don't know why I bothered.
What? You think those things you stated are fact? They are your opinions that I simply don't agree with
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:50 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:You hate the rival boost theory because it puts Gogeta over your favorite character.
I hate it because its a weirdly common fan theory that misses the whole point of the scene, seemingly thought up solely to wank Goku/Vegeta/Vegetto.

Old Kai said "they're two of the three strongest guys in the universe, so of course merging with the potara makes a mighty warrior. As opposed to you. You were never anything special. It doesn't hurt that they're close in power/are always trying to outdo each other either."

He did NOT say "Well good thing they hate each other. That's all that really matters. They'd be like a thousand times weaker if they didn't. If you two hated each other, you totally could've stomped Buu".
Again though, Buuhan is assuming he's more than a match for them based on how powerful Gotenks was. Buuhan himself wouldn't even consider a rival boost so it works. Buuhan is also an arrogant villain. He's still telling himself he can win when he's getting his face bashed in by Vegetto. Trust me, I would put Janenba lower if Toei didn't state he was stronger than Hirudegarn  .
There is no rival boost. It wasn't even implied to exist for Gogeta. If it did exist, Gotenks would have gotten it anyway. Heck, it isn't even implied to exist period.

Buuhan isn't the only one who implied it. And trying to dismiss his comment with "he's arrogant" would require him to act completely OOC.

Fun fact: the movies go by anime power scaling, where SS2 Goku > Gohan. Another fun fact: the Toei website referenced things that didn't happen when "proving" that Janemba was stronger. I don't even think that comment is still up, is it?
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:55 pm

Rou Kaioshin said these exact words:
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”
Rou Kaioshin mentions nothing about the Potara making them as strong as they are. He says the fact they 2 of the strongest warriors in the universe and being rivals is what made Vegetto so strong. Naturally, why wouldn't the same apply to Gogeta? You can not like it all you want. It is, however, a completely valid theory based on what Rou Kaioshin stated.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:58 pm

I'm just going to leave this here, to prove the lame PL from the Daiz are far from accurate:

Tenshinhan [#SA1#TEN]
Chapter: 209 (DBZ 15), P4.5-6
Context: trying out the converted scouter
Bulma: “...Eh?! About 3,000 km from here, there's someone at 250! Who could it be?!"
Kuririn: “250?! I know!! It’s Tenshinhan!!!”

Chapter: 211 (DBZ 17), P13.1
Context: after training under God
God: “You have all surpassed me now. There is nothing more I or Mr. Popo can teach you. Return to the lower world and refine your skills until the final confrontation.”

And Yakon is close to Goku:

Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P6.5
Context: after Yakon eats Goku’s Super Saiyan light
Gohan: “Father, I’ll fight too! If there’s two of us, then we’ll be able to win without becoming Super Saiyans!”

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