The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TheGmGoken]

Super Saiyan Bardock has almost no feats at all. I see no reason to put him above 600,000 at the very most.

But he was only SSJ for like 3 minutes in the movie and didn't fight someone strong. So it's natural he has no feats being shown.

I know. That's why I'm so perplexed by people thinking he needs to be high. Chilled is probably weaker than Cui, honestly.

I would't have him being weaker than Cui. I say on par with Ginyu.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I just went with a Zenkai that made sense to me.

[RandomGuy96]

I would't have him being weaker than Cui. I say on par with Ginyu.

Do you think someone weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta could attack Ginyu head on and land a painful punch that makes him bleed?

[TheGmGoken]

I would't have him being weaker than Cui. I say on par with Ginyu.

Do you think someone weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta could attack Ginyu head on and land a painful punch that makes him bleed?

Confused on question. Sorry. Seems like you mean Bardock but towards the end it seems more like Chilled.

[RandomGuy96]

I would't have him being weaker than Cui. I say on par with Ginyu.

Do you think someone weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta could attack Ginyu head on and land a painful punch that makes him bleed?

Confused on question. Sorry. Seems like you mean Bardock but towards the end it seems more like Chilled.

I meant: do you think someone weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta could attack Captain Ginyu head on and make Captain Ginyu bleed? Because that's what base Bardock did to Chilled. Do you think he could do the same to Ginyu? That's why I think Chilled is weaksauce. That, and none of his henchmen could even use ki, so a power level of like 16,000 would still be seen as godly in this time period.

[TheGmGoken]

Oh that makes more sense now. Damn you;re right lol. If Bardock is 16,000 then Chilled must be 18,000 - 19,000. Forgot this movie takes place before Ki was important.

[RandomGuy96]

I have Bardock = 12,000 and Chilled = 16,000.

[TheGmGoken]

Bora vs Mr Satan
Bora vs Videl
Bora vs Nam

[PerfectFreeza]

He defeats the first two.No idea on Nam.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Bardock must be above 30.000, and at least a little below 90.000. Otherwise, he can't turn Super Saiyan.

[VegettoEX]

Bardock must be above 30.000, and at least a little below 90.000. Otherwise, he can't turn Super Saiyan.

I've done absolutely zero analysis and haven't watched the respective TV special in years, but how do you explain Goku Jr. in the DBGT TV special if a battle power must be that high? Mixed blood making it easier, perhaps? Which goes against what we saw with Gohan, but did indeed see with Goten and Trunks... and they were only half-blooded...

[TheGmGoken]

Bardock must be above 30.000, and at least a little below 90.000. Otherwise, he can't turn Super Saiyan.

When was that stated?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Bardock must be above 30.000, and at least a little below 90.000. Otherwise, he can't turn Super Saiyan.

I've done absolutely zero analysis and haven't watched the respective TV special in years, but how do you explain Goku Jr. in the DBGT TV special if a battle power must be that high? Mixed blood making it easier, perhaps? Which goes against what we saw with Gohan, but did indeed see with Goten and Trunks... and they were only half-blooded...

Goku Jr. (and maybe Vegeta Jr. as well?) is probably the same exception as Goten & Trunks:

The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies.
Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.

Gohan though didn't belong in the same category, and the same goes for Pan as well probably (since she isn't a Super Saiyan in GT, even though she is very strong).

Bardock must be above 30.000, and at least a little below 90.000. Otherwise, he can't turn Super Saiyan.

When was that stated?

The ultimate Saiyan warrior that surpasses the limits of a regular Saiyan. Originally, the existence of this form outside of legend was doubted even among Saiyans, but in reality any Saiyan that possesses a high battle power above the standard level is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan. Possessing a calm heart, sensing extreme danger, feeling strong anger or sadness, or a danger to the Saiyan race itself seem to be states that are the essential keys to transforming. The outward signs of the transformation include an aura, golden hair that stands straight up, and sharp, hawk-like eyes with emerald-green pupils. In addition, a battle power 50 times that of normal is proof of the legendary mightiest warrior.

Chapter: 270 (DBZ 76), P12.5
Narrator: “Even Goku hasn’t realized…That somewhere along the line he’s acquired enough power to surpass the level of Saiyan limits…”

Chapter: 280 (DBZ 86), P14.1-3
Context: after Goku knocks out Recoom
Vegeta: “T-that just now wasn’t an attack…He can’t fool my eyes…It was a stupendously heavy blow…He’s clearly surpassed the fighting level of Saiyans…He’s a completely different person than the one I fought on Earth…What the hell kind of training did he do?...Was the legend true…!? Is he a Super Saiyan…!?”

Since Vegeta (BP 30.000) believed that Goku (BP 90.000) was a Super Saiyan because he had surpassed the Saiyan limits, while he didn't believe that he was a Super Saiyan at that point, it means that Vegeta was still within the Saiyan limits. And since surpassing the Saiyan limits is a requirement for Super Saiyan, it means that Bardock must be above 30.000, and at least 90.000 or somewhere below that.

[TheGmGoken]

any Saiyan that possesses a high battle power above the standard level is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan.

The standard level for Saiyans are 1 - 5 thousands. The royal(Besides Tarble) are 10 - 18k. So for Bardock being a low class Saiyan the standard level was surpassed. Vegeta being a royal breed has a higher standard level

[RandomGuy96]

Also, nothing says the limits of this generation are the same as the last.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

any Saiyan that possesses a high battle power above the standard level is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan.

The standard level for Saiyans are 1 - 5 thousands. The royal(Besides Tarble) are 10 - 18k. So for Bardock being a low class Saiyan the standard level was surpassed. Vegeta being a royal breed has a higher standard level

Νο. Vegeta was at 30.000, and he still hadn't surpassed the Saiyan limits.

Also, nothing says the limits of this generation are the same as the last.

That doesn't make sense. Vegeta was at 30.000, and still at the standard level of a Saiyan. King Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan of his time, but he was somewhere between 10.000-18.000. Which means that in the near past before King Vegeta's time, there were Saiyans stronger than King Vegeta above 30.000, but still below 90.000. Not to mention that there was no mention about any generation, just Saiyan limits in general.

[TheGmGoken]

Νο. Vegeta was at 30.000, and he still hadn't surpassed the Saiyan limits.

I said royal saiyans have HIGHER limits then the other classes of Saiyan. Goku wasn't even angry when he was on Namek before Freeza. However Bardock was. So Goku surpassed his limit he just didn't have the anger.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I said royal saiyans have HIGHER limits then the other classes of Saiyan.

This isn't stated anywhere and there is no reason to assume that. All we know is that Vegeta was at a standard Saiyan level with BP 30.000, and Goku was beyond the standard Saiyan level with BP 90.000.

[TheGmGoken]

I said royal saiyans have HIGHER limits then the other classes of Saiyan.

This isn't stated anywhere and there is no reason to assume that. All we know is that Vegeta was at a standard Saiyan level with BP 30.000, and Goku was beyond the standard Saiyan level with BP 90.000.

It's called an inference. A standard is Used or accepted as normal or average. No average saiyan were 20,000 - 90,000. They passed the limits but needed a goal and anger to get it. Being a low level saiyan the average was most likely 700 - 2.5 thousand. Bardock was passed that. Vegeta being royal and high class. The average was about 5000 - 10000. He just needed a goal and anger.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No average saiyan were 20,000 - 90,000.

We don't know how strong the Saiyans were before King Vegeta's ruling. Vegeta's reaction implies that at least some of the Saiyans from the near past were somewhere at those levels.

Being a low level saiyan the average was most likely 700 - 2.5 thousand. Bardock was passed that.

This doesn't make any sense. Goku was over 8.000, yet he still hadn't surpassed the Saiyan limits.

Vegeta being royal and high class. The average was about 5000 - 10000. He just needed a goal and anger.

Also doesn't make sense. Vegeta was at 30.000, yet he still hadn't surpassed the Saiyan limits as well.