Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Toriyama-sama wrote:I disagree entirely. I think Piccolo has to be clearly stronger than Goten and Trunks. Boo's absorption shows this, and if anyone says that's because they were in base, I believe Boo can access all the abilities of the people he's absorbed (including SSJ transformations), hence he using Gotenks' attacks and the like after the fusion wears off.
Piccolo says the boys are the Earth's final hope even before fusion is mentioned.
ABED wrote:
Gohan could barely dodge and block Goten's attacks. You can see on the panel he is panicking. He even says they'll surpass me soon if I'm not careful. If Goten was so much weaker than him then Gohan wouldn't have much of a hard time blocking him.
He's rusty, Goten was really close and he wasn't expecting it to be as fast as it was. Expectations matter.
He's not saying Goten will surpass him because of how strong Goten is at that moment, he's worried that at Goten's age and at the rate he seems to be increasing his strength (aided by him enjoying fighting) and Gohan slacking, it's likely that Goten would surpass him.
Plus it makes absolutely ZERO sense that Goten's base form is anywhere close to anyone in Super Saiyan form.
What are you talking about? They fight as SSJ's and Gohan is having a hard time stopping Goten. Gohan worries that they are so strong now that he'll be quickly outstripped if he's not careful. Even Vegeta has a hard time dodging Trunks. If they actually punched back the pressure would be taken off. But on pure speed they'll have a hard time dodging and blocking everything.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Fun fact: it's never stated that the strongest absorption is the most dominant, and we have an example where the exact opposite happens.
Funner fact: the boys still influence Buuccolo to quite a degree. They actually morph his body, i.e. his face and hands. Piccolo just adds a piece of clothing. We see later what Buu looks like with just Piccolo absorbed; he has different facial features, fingers, and clothing.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
What are you talking about? They fight as SSJ's and Gohan is having a hard time stopping Goten. Gohan worries that they are so strong now that he'll be quickly outstripped if he's not careful. Even Vegeta has a hard time dodging Trunks. If they actually punched back the pressure would be taken off. But on pure speed they'll have a hard time dodging and blocking everything.
Now Trunks is close to Vegeta?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
What are you talking about? They fight as SSJ's and Gohan is having a hard time stopping Goten. Gohan worries that they are so strong now that he'll be quickly outstripped if he's not careful. Even Vegeta has a hard time dodging Trunks. If they actually punched back the pressure would be taken off. But on pure speed they'll have a hard time dodging and blocking everything.
Now Trunks is close to Vegeta?
Look at Vegeta's face when he is trying to dodge Trunks. If he was so much stronger he shouldn't look so stressed.
@Random we have a CODE ORANGE so is there a point going on.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
What are you talking about? They fight as SSJ's and Gohan is having a hard time stopping Goten. Gohan worries that they are so strong now that he'll be quickly outstripped if he's not careful. Even Vegeta has a hard time dodging Trunks. If they actually punched back the pressure would be taken off. But on pure speed they'll have a hard time dodging and blocking everything.
Now Trunks is close to Vegeta?
Look at Vegeta's face when he is trying to dodge Trunks. If he was so much stronger he shouldn't look so stressed.
Code Orange
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
dbzfan7 wrote:
Look at Vegeta's face when he is trying to dodge Trunks. If he was so much stronger he shouldn't look so stressed.
Code Orange
Your using it wrong buddy.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
What is it? Screw it, there is not it, it's ball busting.
If your logic held up, then no one who's weaker would ever get a lucky hit.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
What is it? Screw it, there is not it, it's ball busting.
If your logic held up, then no one who's weaker would ever get a lucky hit.
The Daiz supports this and what is shown on the reactions of Gohan and Vegeta does to. They're Super Prodigies for a reason. If you want to believe they are really weak even though there not go ahead.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
What are you talking about? They fight as SSJ's and Gohan is having a hard time stopping Goten. Gohan worries that they are so strong now that he'll be quickly outstripped if he's not careful. Even Vegeta has a hard time dodging Trunks. If they actually punched back the pressure would be taken off. But on pure speed they'll have a hard time dodging and blocking everything.
Now Trunks is close to Vegeta?
Look at Vegeta's face when he is trying to dodge Trunks. If he was so much stronger he shouldn't look so stressed.[/quote]
Code Orange[/quote][/quote]
LOL! You're using it wrong! You don't even know what it means
LOL! You're using it wrong! You don't even know what it means
There is no meaning, if there was, then why don't you explain it to me. I wasn't trying to "use it right", I was taking the piss out of you guys, as they say.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ABED wrote:
There is no meaning, if there was, then why don't you explain it to me.
Because it's an inside thing. We're not going to explain it.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
ABED wrote:
There is no meaning, if there was, then why don't you explain it to me.
Because it's an inside thing. We're not going to explain it.
I'll take your word for it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
dbzfan7 wrote:Piccolo says the boys are the Earth's final hope even before fusion is mentioned.
Yes, and they appear to be indeed. They're the last remaining Saiyans and they've shown quite promising strength for their age. It's only natural for them to be "the last hope".
RandomGuy96 wrote:Fun fact: it's never stated that the strongest absorption is the most dominant, and we have an example where the exact opposite happens.
Funner fact: the boys still influence Buuccolo to quite a degree. They actually morph his body, i.e. his face and hands. Piccolo just adds a piece of clothing. We see later what Buu looks like with just Piccolo absorbed; he has different facial features, fingers, and clothing.
Well, the one exception is quite a singular case, but the way those scenes play out gives me the clear impression Piccolo is stronger than the kids.
LOL! You're using it wrong! You don't even know what it means
There is no meaning, if there was, then why don't you explain it to me. I wasn't trying to "use it right", I was taking the piss out of you guys, as they say.
There is a meaning and the piss is still in me. I Haven't drink my orange soda yet.
dbzfan7 wrote:Piccolo says the boys are the Earth's final hope even before fusion is mentioned.
Yes, and they appear to be indeed. They're the last remaining Saiyans and they've shown quite promising strength for their age. It's only natural for them to be "the last hope".
RandomGuy96 wrote:Fun fact: it's never stated that the strongest absorption is the most dominant, and we have an example where the exact opposite happens.
Funner fact: the boys still influence Buuccolo to quite a degree. They actually morph his body, i.e. his face and hands. Piccolo just adds a piece of clothing. We see later what Buu looks like with just Piccolo absorbed; he has different facial features, fingers, and clothing.
Well, the one exception is quite a singular case, but the way those scenes play out gives me the clear impression Piccolo is stronger than the kids.
Over Piccolo. I doubt they can wait for long until Boo destroy's earth. Piccolo isn't even considering himself a player.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Toriyama-sama wrote:Because they are Saiyans Which means they will always get stronger than any non-Saiyan with enough training
They barely have any time. Piccolo is freaked out by the demonstration the boys show when they show their SSJ power. Compare the two versions of Boo (piccolo absorbed).
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Toriyama-sama wrote:Because they are Saiyans Which means they will always get stronger than any non-Saiyan with enough training
Not even you're name is Piccolo. Do you see the gains he got!
Exactly. Piccolo gets huge gains and he doesn't even consider himself any help in a fight.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Your using it wrong buddy.
There is no meaning, if there was, then why don't you explain it to me. I wasn't trying to "use it right", I was taking the piss out of you guys, as they say.
