How strong is Lord Slug?

[RandomGuy96]

I place him stronger than 100% Freeza in his giant form, but not by much. I think this is an alternate universe where Freeza died to the Genki Dama. So everyone thought that Freeza's ~70% power that he used to attempt to survive it was his full. The way King Kai phrased it, it sounded like the gap between Giant Slug and Freeza was HUGE, as he said that Freeza and a Super Saiyan couldn't even stand up to him. I like this, as to me, Slug is Freeza's film counterpart. I find that this makes the most sense, as trying to enact other theories has many problems:

Goku killed first form Freeza: if this were true, kaio-ken x10 Goku could beat the crap out of Slug, as he wasn't supposed to surpass Freeza until he went giant. But Slug was beating up Goku with ease, and Goku didn't seem to think that there was any way of beating him aside from using his two new giant power ups. Goku didn't use kaio-ken (unless you buy the invisible kaio-ken theory like I do), but that just seems really too PIS, even for a movie. Not to mention Slug just shrugging off Super Saiyan Goku's beating wouldn't make any sense if he was really below 530 thousand; he'd have died instantly. It also wouldn't fit that comment from... I think it was one of Toei's writers? It said that new film villains are always stronger than the previous ones. Tullece's power level after eating the fruit easily exceeded 1 million, if you take the Ozaru Gohan scene seriously. So I just can't see Slug "only" being stronger than first form Freeza.

Piccolo killed second form Freeza: Goku would still suffer the injuries that led to his zenkai that placed him in the millions. As Slug was beating the crap out of Goku before he turned "Super Saiyan", it wouldn't make any sense if he was weaker than any of Freeza's 'suppressed' forms prior to turning giant, as base Namek Goku was stronger than any of them.

Goku killed 100% Freeza: the obvious problem here is Goku's "False Super Saiyan" form; Goku can't use regular SS and King Kai seems shocked that he turns SS at all. So that's obviously a no go.

So, in power levels, I guess I'd have normal Slug at 65 million, with his giant form at 130 million. FSS Goku at 85 million, with kaio-ken x100 Goku at 340 million.

Another factoid: Goku had to use kaio-ken x100 to beat him, which seems to heavily that FSS and SS have the same boost (or else that pamphlet wouldn't have had to make up a new mega-kaio-ken just for the movie), even though at the moment I have at as a x25 boost.

[PerfectFreeza]

I follow the ''the Z-Fighters are equal to the episodes the movie is mimicking'' theory, so the Goku Slug fought is the Ginyu arc. Goku.
I also follow the ''release dates'' theory, so the Freeza Kaio was reffering to, was most likely 2nd or 3rd form Freeza.
Makes sense to me, as Goku:90,000 x 25=2,250,000.TOEI most likely had no idea, what the SSJ boost was gonna be like, so IMO 25x seems fitting, as it's a lot higher than his Kaioken x 10.
So in power levels, I'd place Base Slug at 1,800,000(fits his endurance in his skirmish with FSSJ Goku) and at 4,500,000 at his giant form, as as he said that Freeza and a Super Saiyan couldn't even stand up to him.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It depends on how powerful you think Goku is here. I think he's equal to the Goku that fought Ginyu, so 90,000. That being said, Slug would get wrecked by Freeza using more than 2% of his power, regardless of Slug's form.

[ZombieVito]

Wait what? When was it stated Freeza used his 70% power to survive?

[RandomGuy96]

Wait what? When was it stated Freeza used his 70% power to survive?

I see no reason why he wouldn't, as he showed the ability to quickly draw it out before and was heavily implied to do so when he deflected the x20 Kamehameha.

[TheGmGoken]

I have Lord Slug around 100% Freeza. But stronger. The fact that he tanked a full out combo of Giji Super Saiyan and only got a broken arm is impressive. His giant form required a Kaioken x100 so he is about 1.5x stronger than SSJ Goku on Namek,

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

I could see Giant Lord Slug's power increasing to the point, where Giji Super Saiyan Son Goku is outmatched in the fourth movie.

[Stark the lone wolf]

I place him stronger than 100% Freeza in his giant form, but not by much. I think this is an alternate universe where Freeza died to the Genki Dama. So everyone thought that Freeza's ~70% power that he used to attempt to survive it was his full. The way King Kai phrased it, it sounded like the gap between Giant Slug and Freeza was HUGE, as he said that Freeza and a Super Saiyan couldn't even stand up to him. I like this, as to me, Slug is Freeza's film counterpart. I find that this makes the most sense, as trying to enact other theories has many problems:

Goku killed first form Freeza: if this were true, kaio-ken x10 Goku could beat the crap out of Slug, as he wasn't supposed to surpass Freeza until he went giant. But Slug was beating up Goku with ease, and Goku didn't seem to think that there was any way of beating him aside from using his two new giant power ups. Goku didn't use kaio-ken (unless you buy the invisible kaio-ken theory like I do), but that just seems really too PIS, even for a movie. Not to mention Slug just shrugging off Super Saiyan Goku's beating wouldn't make any sense if he was really below 530 thousand; he'd have died instantly. It also wouldn't fit that comment from... I think it was one of Toei's writers? It said that new film villains are always stronger than the previous ones. Tullece's power level after eating the fruit easily exceeded 1 million, if you take the Ozaru Gohan scene seriously. So I just can't see Slug "only" being stronger than first form Freeza.

Piccolo killed second form Freeza: Goku would still suffer the injuries that led to his zenkai that placed him in the millions. As Slug was beating the crap out of Goku before he turned "Super Saiyan", it wouldn't make any sense if he was weaker than any of Freeza's 'suppressed' forms prior to turning giant, as base Namek Goku was stronger than any of them.


Goku killed 100% Freeza: the obvious problem here is Goku's "False Super Saiyan" form; Goku can't use regular SS and King Kai seems shocked that he turns SS at all. So that's obviously a no go.

So, in power levels, I guess I'd have normal Slug at 65 million, with his giant form at 130 million. FSS Goku at 85 million, with kaio-ken x100 Goku at 340 million.

Another factoid: Goku had to use kaio-ken x100 to beat him, which seems to heavily that FSS and SS have the same boost (or else that pamphlet wouldn't have had to make up a new mega-kaio-ken just for the movie), even though at the moment I have at as a x25 boost.

The movie was released before frieza used his 3rd form which means that King Kai was talking about 2nd form frieza because by that time we didn't knew that frieza could make another transformation, the description about ssj by king kai is almost the same one that vegeta used to describe the ssj after goku beated the ginyu force, turles is not in the million even after the 2nd fruit,3rd form frieza>Giant Slug>2nd Form Frieza>Base Slug>1st form frieza

[ZombieVito]

Wait what? When was it stated Freeza used his 70% power to survive?

I see no reason why he wouldn't, as he showed the ability to quickly draw it out before and was heavily implied to do so when he deflected the x20 Kamehameha.

I guess I don't see it like that. In the anime Freeza used a Kikō to stopped the Kamehameha. I'ts a similar case with Goku and Nappa's beam struggle. The after explosion it's even similar.

[Kaboom]

I'd see Slug more or less representing Freeza's in-between transformations. He does kind of cycle through three different "forms" in the film, after all. That would allow things to match up well with the afore-mentioned similarity to the Ginyu Force fights earlier in the movie.

[Pantalones]

He mentions in the movie that Goku might have had a chance against him if they had fought before he had his youth (and power) restored to his prime. Assuming Goku is 3,000,000 like at the start of his fight with Freeza (since, as mentioned before, Goku would've already had the injuries that caused his final huge near-death boost even if Piccolo or someone else had killed Freeza before he arrived in the movie's alternate-universe), that would mean old Slug is pretty close to 3,000,000 (maybe a little lower, maybe a little higher, but not far from 3,000,000 in either direction) while young Slug is much higher than that. I'd put him at least 15,000,000 so that he'd be high enough that Goku wouldn't be able to beat him with Kaio-Ken x4, which would've been the highest level he'd ever used in a fight so far if he never fought Freeza. It would also make sense to put him high enough that Goku wouldn't be able to beat him with Kaio-Ken x10, especially if you think he might have been using an "invisible" Kaio-Ken x10 during the fight like I've seen mentioned before. The highest I can see him possibly being is just barely strong enough that bursts of Kaio-Ken x20 wouldn't have been enough to beat him (so somewhere in the range of the 60 or 70 millons.)

But of course, even young Slug is not anywhere near 50 times stronger than Goku, because he got stomped pretty bad by Super Saiyan Goku (and I see no reason to assume a different multiplier just because SSj looks different in this movie from its later appearance, considering that this was supposed to be the Super Saiyan transformation at the time the movie was made.) So he's less than 150,000,000 but significantly above 3,000,000, putting him somewhere within the range of final form Freeza's power even before going into his giant form.

Now, in his giant form... Slug's form seemed different than Piccolo's own giant form (which didn't seem to boost his power any, just his size/weight/etc.), especially when you consider that even a Kaio-Ken x100 combined with the same fly-through-your-chest punch that finished off Piccolo Daimaou wasn't quite enough to kill him. Goku was pretty badly beaten up before Piccolo lent him his power, so maybe he wasn't at his full 3,000,000 before that Kaio-Ken... but even then, 100x is a huge boost, and even somebody with a Namek's regeneration would need to be insanely strong to survive that. I'm guessing even Super Saiyan Goku wouldn't have been able to beat giant Slug (at least not without a hell of a fight), even if he did transform again after Slug got huge. So I'd put him at 150,000,000 bare minimum (assuming Goku was very heavily weakened before the Kaio-Ken and his power was only in the 1.8 million range at best before going up x100), maybe even as high as 240,000,000 or 250,000,000 if Goku's power was closer to normal before the Kaio-Ken. If you think Goku was above his usual 3,000,000 due to Piccolo's power transfer, then... giant Slug might even be over 300,000,000, possibly even in the upper 300-millions (assuming Piccolo was somewhere a little over 1 million, like he was during his fight with Freeza, so that Goku+Piccolo x100 would be in the 400-something-million range.)

So...

Old Slug: 3,000,000ish. Maybe enough to beat 3,000,000 Goku, or maybe not... but he'd at least put up a fight.
Young Slug: Enough to beat 3,000,000 Goku easily. Probably in the range of 15,000,000 to 38,000,000 ("too much for Kaio-Ken x4" to "too much for Kaio-Ken x10," respectively), maybe even pushing into the 60-70 millions if you want him so strong that even Kaio-Ken x20 wouldn't have been enough.
Giant Slug: Probably equal to or greater than Super Saiyan Goku. Capable of (barely?) surviving a Kaio-Ken x100 attack. Probably in the range of 150,000,000 to 380,000,000 depending on just how strong Goku was after Piccolo's power transfer but before that Kaio-Ken (...which, conveniently, puts him at a level about 10 times stronger than his non-giant form, which itself was about 5 to 10 times stronger than his older self.)

Wow. I've always considered him to be at least somewhat within the range of Freeza's final form, but I never thought about Slug possibly being that strong before...

[Son Edo]

Slugg is overrated. But yet underrated.

[Nazi Cola]

Taking the movie as a stand-alone, Slug would probably be stronger than Freeza.

[RandomGuy96]

He mentions in the movie that Goku might have had a chance against him if they had fought before he had his youth (and power) restored to his prime. Assuming Goku is 3,000,000 like at the start of his fight with Freeza (since, as mentioned before, Goku would've already had the injuries that caused his final huge near-death boost even if Piccolo or someone else had killed Freeza before he arrived in the movie's alternate-universe), that would mean old Slug is pretty close to 3,000,000 (maybe a little lower, maybe a little higher, but not far from 3,000,000 in either direction) while young Slug is much higher than that. I'd put him at least 15,000,000 so that he'd be high enough that Goku wouldn't be able to beat him with Kaio-Ken x4, which would've been the highest level he'd ever used in a fight so far if he never fought Freeza. It would also make sense to put him high enough that Goku wouldn't be able to beat him with Kaio-Ken x10, especially if you think he might have been using an "invisible" Kaio-Ken x10 during the fight like I've seen mentioned before. The highest I can see him possibly being is just barely strong enough that bursts of Kaio-Ken x20 wouldn't have been enough to beat him (so somewhere in the range of the 60 or 70 millons.)

But of course, even young Slug is not anywhere near 50 times stronger than Goku, because he got stomped pretty bad by Super Saiyan Goku (and I see no reason to assume a different multiplier just because SSj looks different in this movie from its later appearance, considering that this was supposed to be the Super Saiyan transformation at the time the movie was made.) So he's less than 150,000,000 but significantly above 3,000,000, putting him somewhere within the range of final form Freeza's power even before going into his giant form.

Now, in his giant form... Slug's form seemed different than Piccolo's own giant form (which didn't seem to boost his power any, just his size/weight/etc.), especially when you consider that even a Kaio-Ken x100 combined with the same fly-through-your-chest punch that finished off Piccolo Daimaou wasn't quite enough to kill him. Goku was pretty badly beaten up before Piccolo lent him his power, so maybe he wasn't at his full 3,000,000 before that Kaio-Ken... but even then, 100x is a huge boost, and even somebody with a Namek's regeneration would need to be insanely strong to survive that. I'm guessing even Super Saiyan Goku wouldn't have been able to beat giant Slug (at least not without a hell of a fight), even if he did transform again after Slug got huge. So I'd put him at 150,000,000 bare minimum (assuming Goku was very heavily weakened before the Kaio-Ken and his power was only in the 1.8 million range at best before going up x100), maybe even as high as 240,000,000 or 250,000,000 if Goku's power was closer to normal before the Kaio-Ken. If you think Goku was above his usual 3,000,000 due to Piccolo's power transfer, then... giant Slug might even be over 300,000,000, possibly even in the upper 300-millions (assuming Piccolo was somewhere a little over 1 million, like he was during his fight with Freeza, so that Goku+Piccolo x100 would be in the 400-something-million range.)

So...

Old Slug: 3,000,000ish. Maybe enough to beat 3,000,000 Goku, or maybe not... but he'd at least put up a fight.
Young Slug: Enough to beat 3,000,000 Goku easily. Probably in the range of 15,000,000 to 38,000,000 ("too much for Kaio-Ken x4" to "too much for Kaio-Ken x10," respectively), maybe even pushing into the 60-70 millions if you want him so strong that even Kaio-Ken x20 wouldn't have been enough.
Giant Slug: Probably equal to or greater than Super Saiyan Goku. Capable of (barely?) surviving a Kaio-Ken x100 attack. Probably in the range of 150,000,000 to 380,000,000 depending on just how strong Goku was after Piccolo's power transfer but before that Kaio-Ken (...which, conveniently, puts him at a level about 10 times stronger than his non-giant form, which itself was about 5 to 10 times stronger than his older self.)

Wow. I've always considered him to be at least somewhat within the range of Freeza's final form, but I never thought about Slug possibly being that strong before...

That's what I've been thinking. The only problem with that I find is that there was a comment by someone (a script writer, I think?) saying that new villains > old villains, always, while talking about Bio-Broly as the one exception. I don't think Cooler is over 200 million like the film would indicate Slug is.

Taking the movie as a stand-alone, Slug would probably be stronger than Freeza.

Which Freeza, and how much stronger?

[ABED]

I doubt Slug is implied to be Freeza's level, at least not his full power.

[RandomGuy96]

I doubt Slug is implied to be Freeza's level, at least not his full power.

He's not "implied" to be anything, he's just stated to be stronger than Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku.

[ABED]

I doubt Slug is implied to be Freeza's level, at least not his full power.

He's not "implied" to be anything, he's just stated to be stronger than Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku.

That didn't look like a full Super Saiyan. It was either an animation error or their attempt to create a look for Super Saiyan which I don't believe the manga had gotten to at that point, also, Freeza hadn't shown his full power either.

[RandomGuy96]

That didn't look like a full Super Saiyan. It was either an animation error or their attempt to create a look for Super Saiyan which I don't believe the manga had gotten to at that point, also, Freeza hadn't shown his full power either.

It was Super Saiyan, but like you said was an art error. Well, sort of. It was before SS premiered in the manga, so they just made their own look. That's why the movie's called "Super Saiyan Son Goku" in Japan.

I don't get what Freeza not showing his full power has to do with anything. In Movie 4's universe, he must have at least gone to his final form, or nothing makes any sense for the reasons outlined above.

[TheGmGoken]

That didn't look like a full Super Saiyan. It was either an animation error or their attempt to create a look for Super Saiyan which I don't believe the manga had gotten to at that point, also, Freeza hadn't shown his full power either.

Lord Slug Giant > Giji SSJ. It took a Kaioken x 100to beat Lord Slug Giant form and his small form pretty much tanked Giji SSJ and only got a broken arm.

The movie was made around Freeza;s Second or third form(Can't remember). So Just multiply that by 100 or even more since Goku > Freeza. So Lord Slug is ahead of Freeza.

[ABED]

That didn't look like a full Super Saiyan. It was either an animation error or their attempt to create a look for Super Saiyan which I don't believe the manga had gotten to at that point, also, Freeza hadn't shown his full power either.

It was Super Saiyan, but like you said was an art error. Well, sort of. It was before SS premiered in the manga, so they just made their own look. That's why the movie's called "Super Saiyan Son Goku" in Japan.

I don't get what Freeza not showing his full power has to do with anything. In Movie 4's universe, he must have at least gone to his final form, or nothing makes any sense for the reasons outlined above.

1st paragraph - That's basically what I was getting at.
2nd - The battle powers in the films are based around whatever time period the manga was at.

It took a Kaioken x 100to beat Lord Slug Giant

Did Goku use x100, I don't remember that. Also, Slug was defeated by the Genkidama.